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Daisy Chaining Or Xd-ad8

xd-ad8 relay xd-v75 g90

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#1 dvdhout

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 05:08 AM

Hi guys!

 

I would like to rackmount 2 relay G90's and 1 XD-V75 and use one set of antennas.

Optionally i would like to use the P180 or P360 antennas to get a better range and make it possible to place the rack back stage.

 

Is it possible to daisy chain the three units and connect the antennas to the front of the first unit or do i need the XD-AD8 unit ?

 

Are there pros / cons using the XD-AD8?

 

Thanks!


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#2 RonMarton

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 05:50 AM

...Is it possible to daisy chain the three units and connect the antennas to the front of the first unit...

 

No.

 

Not to "the front" connections of a G90, which would need to be "dialled up" as "Ant In: C & D" in the set-up menu, but would still NOT provide the DC power that's required by the cable-compensating "head" amplifiers built into Line 6's paddle antennae.

 

Selecting and connecting to the REAR "A & B" inputs of your "first" G90, then using the supplied, short, LMR-195 antenna "patch" cables from that receiver's "B/C Out" connectors to the rear-panel "A & B" connectors of your identically set-up "second" G90 ...and finally repeating that procedure from that G90's "B/C Out" pair to the "Antenna A" and "Antenna B" connectors on the back of your XD-V75 receiver ...should, however, work really well.

 

(Incidentally, that's the "electrical order" I'd recommend for hooking up our "daisy chain", regardless of the actual "physical order" or "place" that those three receivers occupy in our rack.) 

 

...Are there pros / cons using the XD-AD8?...

 

When fewer than four receivers are involved, I mainly see three "cons", expense, complication and bulk, ...the one "pro" being the elimination of the need to accommodate three "wall wart" plugpacks and their associated power board inside our rack.


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#3 dvdhout

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 01:36 PM

Hi Ron,

So i can use the front connection with the 1/2-wave antenna but not with the paddles?
Also i think the LMR-195 cables are not included with the systems.

Thank you!
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#4 RonMarton

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 01:59 PM

...I think the LMR-195 cables are not included with the systems...

 

You're right.

 

(Sorry, but they were when I bought my very similar XD-V systems.)

 

If you find it difficult to order two pairs from here https://www.globalfu...ode=98-033-0029, your local Line 6 outlet can get them for you using the Line 6 product code 98-033-0029.

 

Whatever happens, it is absolutely vital that those antenna "jumper" or "patch" cables are made from the correct cable and NOT from the vastly more common cables supplied for UHF and VHF wireless microphone use. 


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#5 RonMarton

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 02:09 PM

...So I can use the front connection with the 1/2-wave antenna but not with the paddles?...

 

Sorry, but I should also have re-confirmed this.

 

The answer is "yes", as the whip antennae are passive, (requiring no power) and for many users just "folding" a front-panel mounted pair of passive "rubber ducky" whips into the lid of a road case is a great option.


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#6 Klemman

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 05:51 AM

Hi

 

I've got 2 G90 and 4 XD-V75. 

Can I connect them together the way you told above and go direct to a P360 antenna? 

 

I know that the P360 antenna is active. And on the tech spec for the V75 it says that there are active BNC-antenna outs.

 

/K


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#7 RonMarton

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:51 AM

...I've got 2 G90 and 4 XD-V75. 

Can I connect them together the way you told above and go direct to a P360 antenna?...

 

Sorry, ...but no you can't, Klemman.

 

The built in "Antenna Out daisy chain" system will only yield enough RF to reliably operate a maximum of four receivers in any one daisy chain, so I'm guessing that for your rig, it would probably mean creating a pair of such "racks", either containing two V75s and a G90 in each, or having one carrying your four V75s, with the other housing your two G90 receivers.

 

I feel that either format for those two racks would be much more flexible (and certainly cheaper, if slightly harder to rig) than using Line 6's XD-AD8 antenna distribution unit to build a single rack which distributed one pair of paddle antennae to all six receivers.

 

You have given no details of your situation, but it may be helpful for you to "think simple" and first try such "daisy chaining" from pairs of the supplied whip "rubber ducky" antennae, as I have found this to be very successful in shorter range locations (up to about 80 feet or 25 metres) where it's relatively easy to obtain "line of sight" from transmitters to receiver racks.

 

This could save you quite a lot of money as well as rigging time.


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#8 Klemman

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:20 PM

Ok Thanks.

 

My situation are as follows.

 

Guitar, Bass, 4 headset (singer). 

The location is a hall size 40x20 metres. The the singers have move around in the hall among audience. The instrument will go between 15-20 metres from stage.

 

If I connect the four V75 systems in daisy chain to a P360 and the two G90 with the "rubber ducky" antennas. Could this work ok?


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#9 RonMarton

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:35 PM

...If I connect the four V75 systems in daisy chain to a P360 and the two G90 with the "rubber ducky" antennas. Could this work ok?

 

Aah, yes it could...

 

But I'd heartily recommend buying a pair of the directional P180 antennae over the all around pickup you would receive from the P360s, as the P180s not only give greater range in their "target" direction, but may also allow you to "back reject" any known 2.4GHz wireless "hotspots".

 

Whatever happens, you should perform a "fully populated" (both people and equipment) "walk test" before committing to any permanent installation (if that's what you are considering) ...and bear in mind that I often use a P180 as one "half" of my diversity pair for a rack, with the "rubber ducky" being the other "half".

 

I've found that to be really effective for many such "walkabout" jobs.

 

(...And use only the correct LMR-195 coaxial cable !) 


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#10 Klemman

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:45 PM

 

Whatever happens, you should perform a "fully populated" (both people and equipment) "walk test" before committing to any permanent installation (if that's what you are considering) ...and bear in mind that I often use a P180 as one "half" of my diversity pair for a rack, with the "rubber ducky" being the other "half".

 

 

Thanks a lot. 

 

I'll try that at the next gig.

And my equipment are mostly moving around on tour but we often have gigs at this particular place.

 

…. and I will use LMR-195 cable :-)

 

/K


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#11 RonMarton

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:52 PM

Great !

 

FYI, I have two racks of four XD-V receivers, with a ninth operating as a "standalone kit" in its own Gator case ...and I've found P360's to be almost useless for touring, (such as you and I do) but perfect for installing directly overhead in the middle of some venues.


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#12 dboomer

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:02 PM

Ok Thanks.
 . The the singers have move around in the hall among audience. The instrument will go between 15-20 metres from stage.
 


In this case because the instruments will be "near" and the vocalists could be "far" it's best that you have separate antenna schemes for each type. Put the vocalists on on pair of antennas and the instruments not on that pair. In the case of G90s you can improve things a small amount by using 4 antennas on each receiver.

Please look at our white paper on " near/far"

#13 RonMarton

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:42 PM

...Please look at our white paper on " near/far"

 

...Which can also be found  among the many useful things explained here: http://line6.com/sup...phones-faq-r230

 

In practice, I find that I have very few "near/far" issues with my P180 antennae above head height, ...probably because I very often operate in the "Power Save" mode.

 

A good example of such "near/far" exploitation occurred just last week, where my eight racked V70s joined my ninth V75 which was terminating one rack of four's "daisy chain" from its shared pair of P180 antennae.

 

The "main eight" were on "battery save" for the on stage performers using my "main" system, while the "high power" output from the ninth was from a "roaming" handheld used for a totally independent "separate show", happening simultaneously, ...over seventy metres away, heard exclusively on its own line array speaker system at that more distant location.  


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#14 dboomer

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 08:29 AM

Yea Ron! That is a great way to improve performance in this situation. Don't be afraid to operate in low power mode. When using radios the best practice is to not have more than you need... Which is just the opposite of audio where having lots of headroom ISa good idea.

With radios if the antennas are too strong then they will be searching for signal beyond your operating distance, where they will find interference that the system will now have to deal with. When transmitters are too strong they can overload the front end of the receivers (assuming they. Are close to them) and they will be injecting RF into your other audio equipment.

It's all about having the right balances. When switching to low power you can look at the RSSI meters ( the A and B triangles on the LCD screen of the receiver) and make sure you are still receiving a strong signal. Be sure to walk test the area you intend to work in and make sure you get the performance you need. Always walk test your system before your show to avoid surprises :)

#15 RonMarton

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:25 PM

I'm hoping that some folk may also find this little "trick" handy: http://line6.com/sup...reless-rig-r568


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#16 Klemman

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 12:52 PM

Hello again.

 

Now I've got my equipment.

It's installed in a rackcase.

 

And now I've got a problem. The RF leds tells me that there is an interference. Mostly one led but sometimes even two leds. On all my XD-V75 receivers!! But not my G90's.

 

My equipments looks as follows.

 

2pcs G90 18 months old.

4pcs XD-V75 new.

2pcs SHURE UHF MA System. Old! I think about 15 years, maybe.

 

G90's are linked together with their own antenna.

XD-V75's are linked together with an P180 antenna.

SHURE-systems use their own antennas.

 

Everything are mounted in the same rack so at first I tried to move out SHURE but that didn't help.

I separate the G90's and V75's and move antennas but all the time the leds tell me that there are a small interference. It doesn't matter what channel I use.

 

Have got any solutions for my problem? K


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#17 dboomer

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 02:40 PM

That's not necessarily any problem at all.  It's just informing you there is some RF noise floor.  There's almost never a case where you will not see some activity in the RF ladder when the Line 6 transmitters are turned off.

 

I see one potential problem however.  Your G90's are probably running v1.x firmware which means that can only run in RF1 mode.  Your XDV75's default to running in RF2 mode out of the box.  You will need to switch ALL the V75's to run in RF1 mode (which I would normally recommend to be your first choice anyway).  But now that you have V75's I would flash the firmware in the G90's to the new V2.x version and there have been some small improvements that it couldn't hurt to have available.



#18 Klemman

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:31 AM

Thanks
I know how to switch transmitters to RF1 but how do I switch the recievers to RF1? I cant find it in the manual or at the website.
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#19 RonMarton

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:49 AM

That's just one beauty of the system, Klemman...

 

The V75 receivers detect which of the two schemes are being transmitted and just put a tiny symbol on their LCD screens to confirm that their automatic change-over has been made.

 

As Don has pointed out, your two Relay G90 systems shipped running the older RF1 anyway ...and would need upgrading (via Line 6 Monkey) for access to RF2, in the (relatively rare) event that you might need to re-allocate channels so your transmitters don't slow down other 2.4GHz systems that may be too close for comfort.    


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#20 Klemman

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 04:36 AM

Thanks again!

 

It's nice to have you by my side.

I'll be back if I need some more help.

 

Have a nice weekend! I will! .... With my new V75's ...


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