CBTL Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Let me start this post by saying I exclusively use the helix on board cabs. I love them. The flexibility they offer with mics, er, duel cabs is great. It's so easy to adjust things on the fly without having to load a different IR just to change a mic or its cone placement. Iv tried IRs and just can't get on with them. I know a lot of people have found fault with the cabs and so use IRs, each to there own. Here is my beef. Why are Line 6 endorsing a 3rd party IR? It's like there admitting there cabs are not good enough and instead of working on them, taking the easy route of someone else make IRs. People's thoughts?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_m Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Dan Boul from 65 Amps, the guy who made these IRs is known is doing work with Line 6 as a consultant. He's someone who has a reputation for having golden ears when it comes to guitar tone and dialing in tones and micing up amps in the studio. The way I see it, using an IR is a little like buying a cake from a bakery versus learning to bake your own cake. You can tweak a cake you bake however you want to get it the way you want it. When you buy a cake from the bakery, that's what you get. Maybe it's awesome, and you wouldn't change a thing, but maybe it's not for you... So these IRs are really just a sampler... There's only six of them, and there's not multiple mics or positions to choose from or anything that. If you read the PDF that comes with the pack it says the goal of this pack is to "emulate the unique dynamic mic'ing style of world famous producer known for his impressive guitar tones". So I imagine these are probably shot with multiple mics with perhaps somewhat unique positioning. I'd also say that it probably is a lot less labor intensive to shoot an IR than it is to create a whole hybrid cab. But it's not as if Line 6 is abandoning that - there will be 7 new hybrid cabs in the 2.20 firmware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsdenj Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Its just probably a recognition that IRs aren't just about flexibility and options, they're about marketing. Maybe the Helix cab models are even better - IR models with some additional mic, position and other options. But that really doesn't matter in the marketing world. Its all about options, image and fantasy. Anyway, marketing or not, its nice to have the flexibility in Helix to add the IRs, and its nice to have a wide variety of IRs in the marketplace to choose from. Where is this going - its just the start. We're going to see a move from focusing on an overly saturated market for speaker IRs to a whole new market for acoustic instrument IRs. 3sigma is already doing this with their acoustic guitar, mandolin and upright bass IRs. This is just the beginning. Helix is a pretty good platform for deploying these new capabilities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymuka Posted April 14, 2017 Share Posted April 14, 2017 Dan Boul from 65 Amps, the guy who made these IRs is known is doing work with Line 6 as a consultant. He's someone who has a reputation for having golden ears when it comes to guitar tone and dialing in tones and micing up amps in the studio. The way I see it, using an IR is a little like buying a cake from a bakery versus learning to bake your own cake. You can tweak a cake you bake however you want to get it the way you want it. When you buy a cake from the bakery, that's what you get. Maybe it's awesome, and you wouldn't change a thing, but maybe it's not for you... So these IRs are really just a sampler... There's only six of them, and there's not multiple mics or positions to choose from or anything that. If you read the PDF that comes with the pack it says the goal of this pack is to "emulate the unique dynamic mic'ing style of world famous producer known for his impressive guitar tones". So I imagine these are probably shot with multiple mics with perhaps somewhat unique positioning. I'd also say that it probably is a lot less labor intensive to shoot an IR than it is to create a whole hybrid cab. But it's not as if Line 6 is abandoning that - there will be 7 new hybrid cabs in the 2.20 firmware. It sounds like from this Lunch with Dan podcast that Dan is working on an even larger impulse response project with Line6. I wonder if the Allure packs were just a preview! https://www.nmblive.com/162581-profile-65amps.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 ... Where is this going - its just the start. We're going to see a move from focusing on an overly saturated market for speaker IRs to a whole new market for acoustic instrument IRs. 3sigma is already doing this with their acoustic guitar, mandolin and upright bass IRs. This is just the beginning. Helix is a pretty good platform for deploying these new capabilities. ... Interesting comment regarding the future direction of IRs. Although in many respects you are correct I am not sure I wholly agree that Helix is a "pretty good platform" for deploying IRs yet although it could be in the future. Although the overall functionality of the Helix provides a great platform for many things including IRs, I think the actual IR implementation still has a ways to go. It is difficult to manage IRs from update to update right now. Previewing them could be made easier. You cannot use longer/larger IRs such as might be used for a reverb rather than a guitar cabinet. There are in my opinion not enough slots for the IRs once you start really getting into them. I proposed an idea to allow one or two of the Setlists to be rededicated to IR use if the user so desired. Hope I don't sound overly critical here I just think IR implementation is definitely an area where the Helix has room to grow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verne-Bunsen Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 There are in my opinion not enough slots for the IRs once you start really getting into them. I proposed an idea to allow one or two of the Setlists to be rededicated to IR use if the user so desired. I agree wholeheartedly. Is there an Ideascale submission for this? i can't remember having seen one but I'd sure give it a vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 I agree wholeheartedly. Is there an Ideascale submission for this? i can't remember having seen one but I'd sure give it a vote. I proposed this a while ago in a post but I just added an Idea per your suggestion. You can vote for it here: https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Add-additional-slots-for-IRs/892101-23508 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verne-Bunsen Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Cool, voted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Cool, voted! Thx! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsdenj Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Helix Native will make it a lot easier to explore IRs. I mostly use S-Gear to determine which ones to load into Helix and minimize loading ones I don't use. Indexing by name instead of number would eliminate the IR management issues. 127 might be a smallish number, but may be all we'll get in this hardware version of Helix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsd512 Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 I proposed this a while ago in a post but I just added an Idea per your suggestion. You can vote for it here: https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Add-additional-slots-for-IRs/892101-23508 Cool, voted! Be sure and vote these existing submissions up too: https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Expansion-IR-cabs-User/830991-23508 https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/256-IR-slot-memory/824324-23508 https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/More-space-for-IRs/809273-23508 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verne-Bunsen Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Done and done (and done). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 DI keeps reminding us periodically that on board cab ARE IRs, they just have more built in functionality (mic placement, room reflections, etc...) that standard IR files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HonestOpinion Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Be sure and vote these existing submissions up too: https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Expansion-IR-cabs-User/830991-23508 https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/256-IR-slot-memory/824324-23508 https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/More-space-for-IRs/809273-23508 One for all, and all for one! Voted! https://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Add-additional-slots-for-IRs/892101-23508 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicLaw Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 The April video of Lunch with Dan that is linkd earlier in this thread, contains several very interesting comments from Dan. Perhaps most significant is his comment that Line 6 ws funding his effort to return to the studio to do three days of extensive Shooting of IRs. Dan's comments of the multiple miking methods he uses and the cross reference database he was compiling, as well as the suitability of the IRs for various modeling platforms was very revealing. If I recollect, correctly he was depicting that the 43ms sampling rendered a reverberant capture of surfaces up to 21.5 feet away from the Sound source due to the "cocktail math" of sound traveling approximately 1 foot per millisecond. Thus, the original source's privary sound waves could travel 21.5' feet out and reflections from surfaces up to as far away as 21.5' could be captured within the IR's 43ms capability. This opens a universe of possibilites where Helix could go with these, should these parameters become part of Helix's feature set offerings. Additionally, the Mics Dan mentioned were exceptional and also included multiple mic configurations and room mic configurations. All very exciting potentials for where this Line 6 funded project could lead for Helix!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brue58ski Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Helix Native will make it a lot easier to explore IRs. I mostly use S-Gear to determine which ones to load into Helix and minimize loading ones I don't use. Indexing by name instead of number would eliminate the IR management issues. 127 might be a smallish number, but may be all we'll get in this hardware version of Helix. Where the heck is that thing, by the way? Native that is. Yeah, I know, no need to respond to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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