Jump to content


Photo

Jtv 69 Battery


Best Answer ozbadman , 07 September 2013 - 03:35 PM

It takes 3.5 - 4 hours the first time. It'll go constant red when charging. Pressing the battery test should have shown you something after 3 hours though. You might have a bad battery. Leave it charging overnight and if still nothing the next day, send the battery back.

Go to the full post


  • Please log in to reply
57 replies to this topic

#21 sdunmire

sdunmire

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 57 posts

Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:43 AM

Or, we could encourage Line 6 to drop the price so they make just a reasonable markup. They could price them at $20 and still make a profit. I hate companies that nickel and dime you to death after you've purchased their product!

 

 

I'm quite sure that they would be losing money if they sold a battery for $20.


  • 0

#22 ozbadman

ozbadman

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1689 posts

Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:04 PM

I'm quite sure that they would be losing money if they sold a battery for $20.

 

Highly doubtful they'd be losing money given Chinese companies can sell similar batteries for $6. Obviously they're making a profit, or they wouldn't do it. And it's not like Line 6 has brick-and-mortar costs for their online battery shop. Nope, a tidy mark-up is in play here.

 

That being said, $50 seems to be around the going rate for Genuine Sony Batteries for their camcorders, so it seems like this is the price-point that the market will sustain for these things. Mind you, I haven't bought a second battery due to the cost so I guess they missed my price-point (plus I use either the HD500 or the power-pack generally, with the battery there in case I can't get power).


  • 0

#23 sdunmire

sdunmire

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 57 posts

Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:51 PM

I'm going to respond and see if we can keep this breezy and fun.  That being said...   :)

 

You operate from a handful of incorrect assumptions:

 

1.  "...similar batteries"  Naturally, this is debatable.  There is a VERY wide range of quality in cells.

2.  "Obviously they're making a profit, or they wouldn't do it."

      a.  I think they *are* making a profit.  At $50.  I was speaking to them quite possibly losing money at $20

      b.  You assume a profit motive.  I assume a support motive.  They are not an accessories company.  They don't need to make money on this.  

3.  "Line 6 has no brick-and-mortar costs for their online..."

      It's complicated, but they need to compete with their own channel partners "fairly."  Meaning they can't ask Sweetwater to stock the battery and then undercut them.  Sweetwater probably buys the battery from L6 for around $25 and expects to make their margins.

 

As I've pointed out elsewhere, my comments are not driven by ego or "blow-hardness" but by real-world experience.  I run product marketing for a company (known brand) that sells devices that run off similar batteries.  I probably am personally responsible for a couple of miliion batteries out there in the world.  (ouch)   If you were local, I'd buy you a beer and proceed to bore you with tales about things that might surprise you--like how expensive an accessories business is to run, etc.  

 

Again, just providing a friendly voice of insider knowledge, not trying to be rude or a know-it-all.  Hope that's helpful.  If not--well, click "thumbs down" and move on.   ;)

 

S.


Edited by sdunmire, 09 September 2013 - 01:57 PM.

  • 0

#24 ozbadman

ozbadman

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1689 posts

Posted 09 September 2013 - 03:18 PM

I'm going to respond and see if we can keep this breezy and fun.  That being said...   :)

 

You operate from a handful of incorrect assumptions:

 

1.  "...similar batteries"  Naturally, this is debatable.  There is a VERY wide range of quality in cells.

2.  "Obviously they're making a profit, or they wouldn't do it."

      a.  I think they *are* making a profit.  At $50.  I was speaking to them quite possibly losing money at $20

      b.  You assume a profit motive.  I assume a support motive.  They are not an accessories company.  They don't need to make money on this.  

3.  "Line 6 has no brick-and-mortar costs for their online..."

      It's complicated, but they need to compete with their own channel partners "fairly."  Meaning they can't ask Sweetwater to stock the battery and then undercut them.  Sweetwater probably buys the battery from L6 for around $25 and expects to make their margins.

 

As I've pointed out elsewhere, my comments are not driven by ego or "blow-hardness" but by real-world experience.  I run product marketing for a company (known brand) that sells devices that run off similar batteries.  I probably am personally responsible for a couple of miliion batteries out there in the world.  (ouch)   If you were local, I'd buy you a beer and proceed to bore you with tales about things that might surprise you--like how expensive an accessories business is to run, etc.  

 

Again, just providing a friendly voice of insider knowledge, not trying to be rude or a know-it-all.  Hope that's helpful.  If not--well, click "thumbs down" and move on.   ;)

 

S.

 

I'm going to try to keep this short: the only reason I disagree with you is you keep making statements as fact that are simply not so. (And it's derisory to say "I operate from a handful of incorrect assumptions". I don't operate from any assumptions at all. You use this as a way of establishing yourself as the arbiter of truth).  "I'm quite sure"....well no, you're not. You have no idea what their cost basis is. Or maybe you are quite sure, but you shouldn't be. You are not the only one with real world experience, nor the only one with product management experience. I too at least have both (although admittedly, not in the battery space). If you didn't present your opinions as fait accompli then we wouldn't need to have these chains. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but when you make statements of opinions as facts, and I disagree with the so-called facts, or incorrect representation of models, then I feel I have no choice but to try to provide a dissenting voice.

 

If something is an established fact, then I'm happy to accept those, but everything else is opinion and should be presented as such. But I wish us both, and everybody else well. I'm just trying to keep the discussion balanced and absent of mis-information to the extent possible. I value everybody's opinions, but get irked when anyone says "well, just believe me: this is the way it is" (not that you quite put it like that).

 

I'd happiiy have a beer with you anytime, although I'm more of a wine drinker. :)

 

Peace my brother.


  • 1

#25 sdunmire

sdunmire

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 57 posts

Posted 09 September 2013 - 05:41 PM

Agree that saying that you "operate from a number of incorrect assumptions" was derisory.  At minimum, it's annoyingly condescending.  I am always irritated at people that use such language on forums (the anonymous factor, I suppose) and what do I do but go ahead and do the same thing!  Lame me.  Sorry.

 

IIRC, the comment where I used the term "quite sure" was in reference to your comment about them losing money if they sold it for $20.  The truth of the matter is I *am* quite sure.  Naturally, as you point out, this is my opinion but I sorta thought that we were all giving opinions.  Like what is stating that they should go to a more "reasonable markup" but an opinion?  

 

So I typed this whole explanation of the cost basis that I had in my head, verified the numbers against my own company's metrics

and came up with about a $19 cost per unit.  I deleted it because it was too boring for even me to read...  :)

 

So maybe they make a little bit at $20.  But not enough to pay for setting up the program in the first place unless they sell 10-20,000 units of the replacement battery.  Which I would doubt, but I don't have market sizing numbers for the Variax to consider so I'll just have to wonder on that.  Sure, replacement battery sales will increase as time goes on, but to what degree is anyone's guess.

 

As to whether they should sell it for $50 or not, well, that's not my call.  I don't like paying vast markups any more than anyone else.  But there are ALWAYS costs that don't pop out in these sorts of online discussions where most people prefer to judge for themselves what a "reasonable markup" should be.  (not picking on you--just attempting to make a point)  I actually had an employee once who chafed at the idea of paying a markup of this sort on another item he was buying and i found myself laughing.  You see, I had justified the creation of that headcount a year earlier based partially on the need for someone to set up and run the accessory sales program that would support one of our core product lines.  What he saw was that we were making a ton of profit, but the $60,000 per year that he was making along with the $8K that it cost to provide medical, dental and life insurance for him and his family was still a sea of red ink that he never thought about.  

 

Irony.  


  • 0

#26 sdunmire

sdunmire

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 57 posts

Posted 09 September 2013 - 05:44 PM

 

I'd happiiy have a beer with you anytime, although I'm more of a wine drinker. :)

 

Peace my brother.

 

Me too, actually.  Wine is easier on the waistline and pretty tasty.  Plus I'm in Oregon and we're known for our yummy Pinots so I guess I'm a victim of my environment.  :)

 

Send me a note if you're ever in Portland.  Peace.


  • 0

#27 ozbadman

ozbadman

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1689 posts

Posted 09 September 2013 - 05:50 PM

Indeed Sir,

 

And one thing I learnt early on in my career is that the final price has more to do with what people will pay then it does on manufacturing cost. God knows I pay a huge mark-up every time I buy coffee (a friend of mine started a small coffee shop and is astounded at the mark-up he can charge customers).

 

Oregon: I must get there some time. I live in L.A. at the moment, and have not made it as far as Oregon so far, but I have heard it's beautiful. I picture lots of trees, but that may be just in my head.

 

Now, where did I put that wine?

 

ps: I can't believe I just mis-spelled Oregon twice. Apologies.

pps: just to clarify, some of those comments you quoted were actually by spmartin, not me.


  • 1

#28 sdunmire

sdunmire

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 57 posts

Posted 09 September 2013 - 06:02 PM

Indeed Sir,

 

And one thing I learnt early on in my career is that the final price has more to do with what people will pay then it does on manufacturing cost. God knows I pay a huge mark-up every time I buy coffee (a friend of mine started a small coffee shop and is astounded at the mark-up he can charge customers).

 

Oregon: I must get there some time. I live in L.A. at the moment, and have not made it as far as Oregon so far, but I have heard it's beautiful. I picture lots of trees, but that may be just in my head.

 

Now, where did I put that wine?

 

ps: I can't believe I just mis-spelled Oregon twice. Apologies.

pps: just to clarify, some of those comments you quoted were actually by spmartin, not me.

 

Yeah, I just paid almost $4 for a drip coffee today.  Nuts.  

 

Lots of trees is area-specific, but we do have them where I am (out of the city a bit) and it's quite beautiful.  I used to live in LA and miss the weather but if I moved back I would miss the green of here.  So maybe the grass is greener at home?  :)

 

I worried that I was misquoting you and forgot to go back and check prior to clicking "post."  Oops.  My bad.  


  • 1

#29 sozeg

sozeg

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 39 posts

Posted 11 September 2013 - 11:07 AM

Just checked back on my post. The topic seems to have drifted somewhat from my original question but good stuff all the same. I had only used my battery once before but when I tried it the led's on the guitar showed blank. When I plugged it in to charge it was blinking straight away which made me think it was almost fully charged. Anyway I charged it for about 11 hours and when I put it back in the guitar it was showing four led's.

I'll keep it in until its drained and then start fro scratch but I reckon maybe my charger just blinks all the time!

No biggie I suppose, as long as it works.

Thanks for the responses
  • 0

#30 rchibnik

rchibnik

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 62 posts

Posted 13 September 2013 - 04:17 PM

I took a chance and got ordered one of these - it arrived today.

http://www.ebay.com/...a-/261197047245

 

The battery came fully discharged, but slipped into both the guitar and charger without issue despite the difference in tracks beneath it. Currently the battery is in the charger with the light lit solidly and no unexpected heat or aromas. I'll probably leave it on overnight and test it out in the morning, so stay tuned and keep your fingers crossed.

 

I'll let you know how it goes.


  • 1

#31 TheRealZap

TheRealZap

    Uber Guru

  • Line 6 Expert
  • 14823 posts
  • LocationClemmons, NC USA

Posted 13 September 2013 - 04:19 PM

awesome! you may have just sold all that guys inventory! :)

 

I took a chance and got ordered one of these - it arrived today.

http://www.ebay.com/...a-/261197047245

 

The battery came fully discharged, but slipped into both the guitar and charger without issue despite the difference in tracks beneath it. Currently the battery is in the charger with the light lit solidly and no unexpected heat or aromas. I'll probably leave it on overnight and test it out in the morning, so stay tuned and keep your fingers crossed.

 

I'll let you know how it goes.


  • 0

#32 rchibnik

rchibnik

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 62 posts

Posted 13 September 2013 - 06:10 PM

After several hours in the charger the light started flashing indicating that charging was complete, or nearly so.

 

I removed the battery from the charger and put it into the JTV but, alas, pressing the battery test button yielded no lights. The Line6 battery showed lights when I replaced it. The Mavica battery feels a little loose in the body of the guitar - not as good a fit as the Line6 battery.

 

I plugged a 1/4" cable into the guitar but could not get the electronics to start - model lights remained dark. The line6 battery and 1/4" cable produced the expected function - lights, etc.

 

Therefore, I can conclude that the batteries are incompatible. I knew it was a gamble going in, and I'm only out 8 bux so I guess I'll bring lunch to work for one day.


  • 0

#33 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 814 posts

Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:03 PM

That's a bummer.  It sure looked like it might work.  Did you read the voltage on it after you charged it?


  • 0

#34 ozbadman

ozbadman

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1689 posts

Posted 13 September 2013 - 11:19 PM

DId you check the electrical connections were the same on both batteries? Same positions, same sizes, same voltages?


  • 0

#35 snhirsch

snhirsch

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 284 posts
  • LocationBurlington, VT USA

Posted 14 September 2013 - 06:49 AM

The Variax models appear to have some logic built in that relies on the third battery contact (on bottom).  I don't think it will be rocket science to figure it out, but I'm not planning to pursue it until my warranty expires next month.  Standby.


  • 1

40 years of Rock-n-Roll and proud of it!

 

PRS Custom 24 (1990) w/ GK-3 Hex PU

James Tyler Variax JTV-69(k) w/ Strat Neck

Roland GR-55 Guitar Synth

QSC K10 FRFR

 


#36 rchibnik

rchibnik

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 62 posts

Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:31 AM

DId you check the electrical connections were the same on both batteries? Same positions, same sizes, same voltages?

The position of all three electrical connections appear as close to identical.

 

That's a bummer.  It sure looked like it might work.  Did you read the voltage on it after you charged it?

In my office move I seem to have misplaced my multi meter, so I am unable to test it. The labels are similar. Both say 7.4v with the Mavica having slightly more mAh (300) and sligtly higher Wh (~2.25) When I find the meter I'll measure the voltage and post.

 
I suspect there may be another Mavica battery that matches. I'll probably keep hunting now. In for a penny, in for a pound.

  • 1

#37 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 814 posts

Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:37 AM

The third battery contact does not make a connection to the Variax!  Only The Plus and Minus.


  • 0

#38 snhirsch

snhirsch

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 284 posts
  • LocationBurlington, VT USA

Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:50 AM

The third battery contact does not make a connection to the Variax!  Only The Plus and Minus.

 

Really?  Interesting.  Mine is off getting the neck Plek'd, but I'll take a close look at it when it gets back.  Since the battery voltage of the replacement is identical, there must be some mechanism for id-ing the unit.  If you get a chance, mind posting a sharp closeup of the battery compartment?

 

Update:  Just did a bit searching on the interwebs.  All the battery identification schemes I can find require a third connection to the battery.  I suppose it's theoretically possible to do this with only two wires, but such a scheme seems a bit impractical.  The bad news is that these "protection" systems (designed to protect the vendor's cash-flow, not you) largely rely on cryptographic methods similar to those used in ink-jet printer cartridges.  Not so simple to work around.  For the techically curious, see the Maxim and TI websites.  Both firms make chips for this type of application (although there are likely to be many others).  A number of Chinese companies have reverse-engineered the schemes used in mass-produced camcorders - thus the batteries on eBay - but I doubt the potential sales volume from Variax owners would be of interest to them.

 

Philosophically, I hate the idea of being held hostage to one supplier for a consumable product like a battery.  Let's hope Line6 gives the community fair warning if they intend to discontinue these packs.


  • 0

40 years of Rock-n-Roll and proud of it!

 

PRS Custom 24 (1990) w/ GK-3 Hex PU

James Tyler Variax JTV-69(k) w/ Strat Neck

Roland GR-55 Guitar Synth

QSC K10 FRFR

 


#39 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 814 posts

Posted 14 September 2013 - 10:02 AM

I would like to hear from rchibnik about what voltage he measured at the terminals of the battery.  My guess is that the pins in the battery box are smaller than the holes on the battery and they don't make connection.  I doubt that Line 6 has any mechanism to sense what kind of battery is inserted.  The bottom of that battery is slightly different and maybe the terminals are too. 


  • 0

#40 snhirsch

snhirsch

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 284 posts
  • LocationBurlington, VT USA

Posted 14 September 2013 - 10:28 AM

That would be the best outcome, wouldn't it?  Let's hope it's that simple.


  • 0

40 years of Rock-n-Roll and proud of it!

 

PRS Custom 24 (1990) w/ GK-3 Hex PU

James Tyler Variax JTV-69(k) w/ Strat Neck

Roland GR-55 Guitar Synth

QSC K10 FRFR

 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users