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DT25 sounds fizzy with HD500 amps


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#1 chrisblythenz

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 01:02 PM

Hi
I'm using the DT25 combo with HD500. I'm finding with some of the amps on the HD the sound is quite fuzzy as it starts to break up. When I go direct into the amp I can get more valvey sounds and less fizz.
I'm curious as I understand the preamp in the HD is the same as the preamp in the DT25, so I guess there shouldn't be any difference.
I'm using line6 link with an XLR cable currently as I can't get hold of the digital cable easily, and hoped the XLR would 'do for now'. Would that make any difference?
As it is I'm tempted to use the 4 cable method instead of the HD amps.
pS I haven't upgraded the DT firmware to the new version yet. Im concerned this will update the preamps to sound fizzy like the HD.
Any thoughts?
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#2 seldon1

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 01:19 PM

Hello,
Not sure what you mean exactly by "fizzy" but I'm sure it's non desirable. I use the hd500x into a DT 25 for a variety if guitar tones with excellent results. At 1st I used xlr cable but was afraid the impedance difference might cause harm so I now use a line 6 digital cable. The sound was fine with xlr however (I would use the shortest lenght possible). Make sure you are using pre amp settings on the hd500 and amp models is the 1st thing I'd recommend. Modeling on top of the amps natural break up would sound artificial and probably fizzy.
I aslo spent a lot of time dialing in the master levels on both my hd500x and the dt500x. They bith run around 50%. If the hd500's master is at 100% that might overdrive the dt25 and sound fizzy. Lastly the gain structure within each individual patch, dial down the gain and let the volume cause the overdrive usually produces a more natural overdriven " valvey" sound.
I hope this is helpful
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#3 seldon1

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 01:21 PM

I meant to so " make sure you are using pre amp settings and NOT amp modeling 😎
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#4 chrisblythenz

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 03:56 PM

Hi.  The noise is a bit like a digital fizz sound on break-up.  I am using the preamp models. The HD is 50% master volume. I'll keep knob tweaking! 

thanks for your reply


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#5 seldon1

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 04:08 PM

You're welcome
I did want to say that nothing sounds as good to me as going directly into the amp.
However, I need and truly appreciate, the versatility I get from the HD500X running my DT 25. (or DT 50)
I cover a multitude of artists and can only truly do that quickly, easily and accurately with my line 6 setup.
Happy tweaking
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#6 chrisblythenz

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 07:38 PM

hi, not sure if this tread is still going....

I've played around heaps and I cant eliminate the fizz - which I think is digital clipping somewhere in my chain.

For example, I'd like to get an AC15 with slight crunch, just where the breakup starts.  I used a new tone (blank preset) and put in ab AC15 pre.  The factory settings are fine but clean.  I get no clipping however.  As soon as I dial in some crunch on the AC15 preamp (using the HD500) I get a digital clipping sound.  

the HD500 master is about 12 o clock (50%) and master on the DT25 on around 3 (playing at home!).  No matter what combination of balance I use - low channel / high master or opposite, and variations of the HD master form 50 - 100%, I can still hear the digital clipping to varying degrees.

I've listened to the patch on headphones and the clipping is there.  I've tried L6 Link, direct into DT25 and into the power amp of the DT25 - no real differences.  So, both HD and DT preamps seem to have clipping.  I've tried the DT by itself and its still there.

its not a valve/tube as the HD is clipping on headphones (even at low volume, so its not the 'phones distorting)

 

So, some questions.

I'm wondering if I've got the I/O correct and whether the patch volumes are too loud overall - even though I've tried with the amp patch as Line6 has created it with no FX.

 

What setting should the I/O be for using for L6 link with the HD500 and DT25 (studio direct, combo)? i've been using combo.

Should the patch volume be about the same as a 'new tone' blank preset?


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#7 spaceatl

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 08:01 PM

Put the cab RES parameter to 0% and see if that helps.


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#8 calischoolofrock

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:35 AM

Chris, I've experienced the same thing as you. When I first read this, I thought "I wonder if he's using the AC15 model." Sure enough, that's what you said. I have found it's an issue with that model specifically. And that's a bummer, because I like the low-mid character of that model, and would love to use it if it weren't for the static-y breakup at higher gain settings. I researched it a little further and compared with/without cab model. No difference, but using the stock cab model masks it a little bit by taking away some high presence. Then I plugged midi into the head and plugged straight in, and used the firmware update & third-party software to load the AC15 model onto channel B. The digital clipping was still there, but wasn't quite as obvious. But in the end, it was there in all situations. I think it's just the way they modeled the AC15.
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#9 calischoolofrock

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:45 AM

Put the cab RES parameter to 0% and see if that helps.

There won't be any cab parameters to tweak if he's running a pre-amp model (as he should) into a DT amp.


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#10 spaceatl

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:08 PM

There won't be any cab parameters to tweak if he's running a pre-amp model (as he should) into a DT amp.

 

Actually RES LVL Remains on PRE models. AMP DEPs are most of what goes away. I have had my POD and DT amps since before the came out, but what do I know?


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#11 calischoolofrock

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 03:35 PM

Actually RES LVL Remains on PRE models. AMP DEPs are most of what goes away. I have had my POD and DT amps since before the came out, but what do I know?

Huh, would you look at that...

I knew something disappeared. Makes sense it's the "power" section of the amp.


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#12 spaceatl

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:04 PM

The cab models also change with the PRE models. Think of it as a Live model. The attenuation is a bit lighter and intended for the DT amplifiers. Basically, you lose the mic parameters because the mic model gets applied to the direct out in DT amp....Really great sounding direct out IMO. A bit better than the HD alone IMO due to feed from the tube power amp. (Unless you are in LVM mode)...I think what happens is that some of the mic models emphasize the RES of the cab more than other mics when using the FULL versions...However, it is still there a bit on the Live cabs...After all, the mic that shot the cab IR is always there...just a different way to think about this stuff.


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#13 chrisblythenz

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 12:29 PM

Right, think I've sorted this issue. Seems to be input distortion.  I've added an EQ block and sert output really low and engaged the Pad and this seems to be stopping the input clipping.  I'm still surprised by single coil Strat is creating input distortion! I should be able to select an Amp preset and it sound OK without input clipping.  Oh well.


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#14 chrisblythenz

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 04:33 PM

Chris, I've experienced the same thing as you. When I first read this, I thought "I wonder if he's using the AC15 model." Sure enough, that's what you said. I have found it's an issue with that model specifically. And that's a bummer, because I like the low-mid character of that model, and would love to use it if it weren't for the static-y breakup at higher gain settings. I researched it a little further and compared with/without cab model. No difference, but using the stock cab model masks it a little bit by taking away some high presence. Then I plugged midi into the head and plugged straight in, and used the firmware update & third-party software to load the AC15 model onto channel B. The digital clipping was still there, but wasn't quite as obvious. But in the end, it was there in all situations. I think it's just the way they modeled the AC15.

 

that's my conclusion too. seems to be the AC15 model that's the worst offender.  Luckly I have a real one as well!  I might have a play with MIDI one day to see if I can make improvements.  But, it shouldnt be like this.  I wonder if the Helix version is better?


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