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Presets For The 4 Line Ins

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#1 duselton

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:31 AM

Hi,

 

Just got my stagescape and I think I am a little confused. It seems that many of the presets cannot be assigned to channels 13-16.  So if I happen to use a wireless mic for vocals and want to put that into channel 16 I am VERY VERY limited in the presets that I can use for those channels. Very limited channel modulation combinations. etc...basically the three band EQ, Hi pass filter and compressor.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Also, on my unit, when the mute channels button is not engaged, it does not show any color where the mute all does have a faint glow. Is this normal?

 

Lastly, is there does not appear to be any way to play the tracks I recorded back thru the mixer so I can use it to mix down the show. Is this correct?

 

Very cool device that is replacing another piece I have just do to its size etc...this is just a guy trying to optimize his world

 

Dave


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#2 Digital-sound

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:08 AM

Hi,

Just got my stagescape and I think I am a little confused. It seems that many of the presets cannot be assigned to channels 13-16. So if I happen to use a wireless mic for vocals and want to put that into channel 16 I am VERY VERY limited in the presets that I can use for those channels. Very limited channel modulation combinations. etc...basically the three band EQ, Hi pass filter and compressor.

Am I missing something?

Also, on my unit, when the mute channels button is not engaged, it does not show any color where the mute all does have a faint glow. Is this normal?

Lastly, is there does not appear to be any way to play the tracks I recorded back thru the mixer so I can use it to mix down the show. Is this correct?

Very cool device that is replacing another piece I have just do to its size etc...this is just a guy trying to optimize his world

Dave

I have not used inputs 13-16 so I will check. But surprised that presets cannot be assigned.

I do have the light on the mute button as you do. In fact, sometimes from a distance, and angle, I think the mute all is on.....or off. But the channel one appears darker and easier to see the state of the button.

There is a way to play back the recorded tracks. Not at my board right now, but push the "record" hardware button on the left, and then I believe it is in there. I have done it, but cannot recall.

I will update tomorrow if no one else has responded.
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#3 silverhead

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:17 AM

I regularly use inputs 13/14 and also 15/16 as stereo pairs for a couple of my POD HD devices. I can assign presets to these inputs; specifically, I assign the HD500 preset and connect the Pod HD's audio outputs, with the Pod set to Studio mode. Works fine.

 

Edit: Looking into this a bit more, I see that you can only use presets that are identified as Line inputs with physical inputs 13-16. Not all presets are compatible; only those with the Line Input icon in the top right corner of the preset icon are compatible.


Edited by silverhead, 08 September 2013 - 11:44 AM.
Updated info

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#4 jaminjimlp

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 04:44 AM

You're not already in record mode push the record button and go to the folder where the recording you want to hear is, Load it then you will be able to play it back by just hitting the play button
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#5 duselton

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 07:32 PM

thanks for the record playback tip. Love community forums.

 

Yes, so Line 6, it is a bit wierd that a company that makes so many wireless devices would take the 4 channels which would best fit that output of those devices and allow a full 16 channels of musicians and make the limited. 

 

Still a nice tool for the money....(some might say a tool for a tool, but you all don't know me that well)

Dave


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#6 kmachman

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 06:18 AM

My devices "Mute Mics" button does not glow at all when not depressed.  But all the other buttons have a slight glow.  Not sure why they did this.  or if mine is defective too...


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#7 GracefulGideon

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 06:28 AM

I was actually coming to the forums just now for this specific reason of not having all presets for the 4 line in's. I noticed this when I plugged in a guitar to input 13 and was not able to find a preset chain that had a noise gate and feedback suppression. lo and behold I found MOST of the presets are not available for the 3 line in's.

Why in the world are the 4 line in's not able to have the full spectrum of presets as the other 12 channels do?
Is it a hardware issue because for all I know XLR and Line In (TRS cables) are pretty much the exact same when it comes to the type of signal they carry sans having phantom power.
And could this be fixed with a simple software/firmware update?

 


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#8 linesixy

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 06:56 AM

Do inputs 13 to 16 have mic pre amps - or are they just suitable for line ins?

 

If there are no mic pre amps, I guess that would explain some differences.


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#9 GracefulGideon

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 08:54 AM

Do inputs 13 to 16 have mic pre amps - or are they just suitable for line ins?

 

If there are no mic pre amps, I guess that would explain some differences.

hmmm that's a good point I guess. I do see in a product description on Sweetwater.com though not here on Line 6's website that the 12 mic inputs have "mic preamps" but for the line in's it does not describe them as having preamps.

I guess that could be a reason for the lack of preset options but I still don't see the complete reason as to what not having preamps (if that is so) in 13-16 has to do with not being able to have the full amount of DSP as the 12 mic/line in input jacks.


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#10 linesixy

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 08:56 AM

If there aren't preamps on those channels (and I say 'if' as I don't have an m20d)... it would be pointless including mic-related pre sets etc.  That's my guess.


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#11 duselton

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 08:58 AM

Yes, the fact that there are no MIC pre's on those channels should proclude the need for things like Phantom Power, but the full processing spectrum should be there. I love the mixer, don't get me wrong. But this was a little misleading on Line 6's part. Maybe it is the limits of the internal processor, but when I looked at it, I thought they only did these 4 channels as TRS just for size.

 

But in the end, most of these addtional features are for show at best, but nice if I could use the dynamic eq on those 4 channels. THat is a COOL effect that would great on vocals which I usally have as wireless mics and thought that was perfect use for those four channels and made it a 16 musician input desk.

 

 

Dave


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#12 GracefulGideon

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 09:16 AM

Yes, the fact that there are no MIC pre's on those channels should proclude the need for things like Phantom Power, but the full processing spectrum should be there. I love the mixer, don't get me wrong. But this was a little misleading on Line 6's part. Maybe it is the limits of the internal processor, but when I looked at it, I thought they only did these 4 channels as TRS just for size.

 

But in the end, most of these addtional features are for show at best, but nice if I could use the dynamic eq on those 4 channels. THat is a COOL effect that would great on vocals which I usally have as wireless mics and thought that was perfect use for those four channels and made it a 16 musician input desk.

 

 

Dave

I agree with Dave, if they do not have preamps in 13-16 then that in itself was misleading. (Unless I am missing somewhere in the description/specifications where it does say only 1-12 have preamps)

I agree with him also on the question as to what not having "mic preamps" has to do with not being given the full spectrum of "effects/processing" available to inputs 1-12. They seem to be to separate issues that aren't connected in my humble opinion.

Still, even if not having preamps is the reason for the lack of presets/effects for 12-16 it was at best misleading for them to make it sound like all 16 inputs were, on the software side of things, the same. sans phantom power of course.

Though of course not XLR compatible those 4 TRS channels should have the same "essential" effects/processing such as eq, feedback suppression, noise gates, etc.


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#13 linesixy

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 09:25 AM

It's a while since I read the brochure, web pages etc.... but I seem to remember that there was a clear distinction expressed about channels 1-12 versus 13-16.


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#14 jeanpicasso

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 12:03 AM

copied from specs information from this site:

 

  • 20 inputs: 18 analog and 2 digital
  • 12 high-performance, digitally controlled, auto-sensing mic/line inputs
  • 4 additional auto-sensing balanced line inputs

dont think its misleading.


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#15 linesixy

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 01:14 AM

While not wishing to sound harsh... I don't think Line 6 can be criticised if customers don't read the specifications.


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#16 GracefulGideon

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:01 AM

While not wishing to sound harsh... I don't think Line 6 can be criticised if customers don't read the specifications.

We are getting a little away from one of the topics. We are trying to find out why there are very limited presets on channels 13-16 as duselton asked.
An explanation by simply saying why Line 6 should not be criticized is begging the question and not helping answer the question.

 

Just got my stagescape and I think I am a little confused. It seems that many of the presets cannot be assigned to channels 13-16.  So if I happen to use a wireless mic for vocals and want to put that into channel 16 I am VERY VERY limited in the presets that I can use for those channels. Very limited channel modulation combinations. etc...basically the three band EQ, Hi pass filter and compressor.

Answer questions such as:
Do 13-16 have preamps or not?
Why does not having preamps limit the software side of channels 13-16
from having the full spectrum of important effects like feedback suppression, noise gate, eq?
If it is because of not having preamps, why?
If not and they just were not given the full spectrum of effects, then also why, and can this be fixed with a simple firmware update?

Things duselton asked.

 

Yes, the fact that there are no MIC pre's on those channels should preclude the need for things like Phantom Power, but the full processing spectrum should be there. I love the mixer, don't get me wrong. But this was a little misleading on Line 6's part. Maybe it is the limits of the internal processor, but when I looked at it, I thought they only did these 4 channels as TRS just for size.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

copied from specs information from this site:

 

  • 20 inputs: 18 analog and 2 digital
  • 12 high-performance, digitally controlled, auto-sensing mic/line inputs
  • 4 additional auto-sensing balanced line inputs

dont think its misleading.

 

Also, I do not see here a confirmation as to whether the 4 additional line inputs have preamps since in this description the 12 are shown to also have the ability to be line inputs.
If the description said "12 inputs WITH preamps and 4 additional non-preamped inputs" then I would be convinced of that part but would still then wonder what I think is now at the front regarding this issue.

What would not having preamps have to do with not getting the full spectrum of effects, many that would seem to still be very useful on channels 13-16?
 


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#17 linesixy

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:21 AM

I don't believe I was getting away from the topic.  To explain...

 

It is clear from the spec that only 12 inputs are for mics.  Thus, only 12 inputs will have mic preamps.  Thus, only those 12 inputs will require the processing / presets that are necessary / desirable for mics.  For example, if the user is using a line input for a keyboard, why would they need FBS on that channel?  I've never had a synthesiser feedback.  Problematic feedback is most common in items such as microphones or acoustic guitars.  If you imagine taking a line out from a guitar amp - and plugging it into channel 14, you probably wouldn't want to suppress feedback (you may actually want some feedback).

 

People are trying to help - by providing answers to the various questions.  Stating that... 'An explanation by simply saying why Line 6 should not be criticized is begging the question and not helping answer the question.' is incorrect and a bit disappointing.

 

You ask whether this can 'be fixed with a simple firmware update'.  It's not really a question of trying to fix something that is deficient or needs repair.  The product appears to be delivering in accordance with the specification in this instance. If you're asking whether Line 6 can add some new functionality (that was not included in the specification) that's a different question.
 


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#18 litesnsirens

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 04:55 AM

To me, someone who is buying a mixer for $2000 most likely knows what line inputs are vs mic inputs.  This is a pretty sophisticated mixer and it's understandable that people might have higher expectations just because it does so much to begin with.  I also recognize that there are a lot of unique scenarios that performers and sound engineers can find themselves in.  That said, the mixer still has what is says it has, 12 mic inputs and 4 line inputs.  If you're trying to run 16 live mics with this mixer you might not have the right tool for the job, because you bought a mixer that has 12 mic inputs.  That doesn't mean there are no possible solutions for your personal situation, but it might take some re-alignment of how you are plugging things in and maybe some adaptors to compensate for the input types. 


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#19 duselton

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 09:26 AM

Hi, Dave again,

 

I do NOT think Line 6 misled me regarding if the channels 13-16 had mic preamps. That was very clear that it did not. But it is unclear to me why, and there was no mention of the fact that line inputs 13-16 would  crippled as far as signal processing.

 

When I was comparing this to my existing mixer (no names here), there were ups and downs to the two approaches. But my existing mixer had 16 mic inputs and I use all 16. But my thinking was, hey two us use wireless mics, the bass and keys outputs do not need mic pre's so I should be able to get by for this aspect of the comparison. It does not say anywhere that these four have limited processing and all these cool preset could not be applied to this inputs. So I do feel a bit misled in this aspect.

 

Overall, this is a VERY impressive mixer and I am happy with selection and looking forward to showing to a club owner this weekend whom I feel will really like this. But at the same time, I urge Line 6 to consider a firmware update to this item to extend full channel processing to these inputs. Again, especially since you sell a full line of wireless goods which abstract the need for a mic pre.

 

Thanks all for the input and this is a great dialouge.

 

Items that are a clear winner over my existing digial mixer

 

 - Digial Inputs is so much nicer. Hate being out in front with ipad and need to adjust the input level and have to go all the way back to the desk to do it. This is MUCH more handy when using ipad tools

 

 - Easy UI but pluses and minuses to the usability but overall, I give the edge to the line 6

 

 - Love being able to record without a laptop

 

 - Love the size

 

Things that could use improvement (beyond the line inputs)

 

 - Seperate iPHONE app for JUST dedicated monitor mixs. (love my current mixer where I can lock a mobile handheld to ONLY changes allowed for their monitor mix)

 

 - Would have been SUPER sweet to have MIDI for control interfacing and coordinated shows, but too late for that now
 

 - If the inputs connects could have been rotated, this would be very cool for bar owners who want to mount it to the wall, but NOT expose the inputs to the bands. Nice when you can use a snake instead and let the bands break that low cost piece as opposed to trashing the inputs of expensive mixer.... :-)

 

Thanks again all for the great conversation !!!


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#20 linesixy

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 09:36 AM

Hi Dave

 

You raise some interesting points in your comparison with your other mixer.  Can I ask which mixer it is?  (I'm still trying to decide on which mixer to buy... and the m20d is one of the contenders, so comparison info. is very interesting).

 

Glad you're enjoying the m20d (and just for the record, I didn't think you were implying the company misled you regarding mic preamps.  I believe it was another contributor who made a claim along the lines of:  'if they do not have preamps in 13-16 then that in itself was misleading'.... however, I'm sure they didn't mean any malice towards Line 6 :) ).


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