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Control 2 Spider Iv Amps With One Fbv Shortboard


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#1 jschires

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 04:50 PM

I understand that this wouldn't be authorized by line 6 and I've read a few areas where others have gotten this to work, but each that I've read has missing pictures, broken links, or incomplete information. Has anyone been able to make this work? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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#2 jschires

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 05:22 PM

For details I have the FBV MKII Shortboard and 2 Spider IV 150 amps.
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#3 senanimach9

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:34 PM

Would a rj45 splitter do the trick? I'm guessing it might be more complicated than that lol
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#4 jschires

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 03:54 AM

Nope. I wish it was that easy to do but the amp powers the pedal and that would send the power twice to it from both amps. I've read in a few places that it's only the green wire (#6) that sends the signal to switch but I've also read some that say it doesn't work and one other that says it does...looking for more clarification
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#5 fflbrgst

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 04:27 AM

There was a thread and a linked video (or pictures) that someone had done to do this on the old forums here.  A splitter won't work.  Curious on why you want to do this - more volume?


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#6 jschires

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 04:40 AM

There was a thread with picture (missing), there was also a video where someone modified the direct output line.

I have 2 of the amps and want to run a slightly different effect on each side and be able r
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#7 jschires

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 04:42 AM

Sorry stupid phone post lol. I want to be able to switch them from the same pedal as well, and no so much for more power but more spread on sound and like I mentioned slightly different effects on each amp. I'm guessing that it's probably not that hard of a mod, but looking for more info so that I don't short something out. I love the sounds in the spider iv, just wanting to link them up.
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#8 senanimach9

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 04:46 AM

Ffbrgst, I'm personally curious how you don't immediately see the appeal of controlling two amps at once. Let me break it down..
1. It'd be awesome.
2. It'd be really cool.
3. It would be super awesome.
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#9 TheRealZap

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 05:06 AM

the jist of the posts describing how to do this, is to get a standard rj45 splitter... one male/two female, and you have to snip some wires in that adapter...

basically the ones that provide power to the pedal...

i've asked the web dev to look into fixing old doc links, not sure if its possible... (things have been moved off the old system)

spaceatl wrote it up: http://line6.com/sup...76460-spaceatl/

you might try sending him a personal message and link him to your forum posts (for the benefit of others)

i'm sure he can fill in the gaps.


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#10 jschires

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 05:14 AM

I did message him (hope he doesn't mind) but haven't received a reply yet, I messaged just yesterday. From what I've read, its not a standard RJ45 splitter, its some sort of telco splitter with 4 wires? The links that were provided didn't work anymore on where to purchase this splitter. Which makes me curious about splicing in the one needed wire to send the signal to the second amp, if that's possible. I really want to get this to work if its possible to do. I purchased the first Spider IV after jamming on one and love it...I fell into the 2nd one by a friend that was cash strapped, so I got a great deal on it.

 

I want to make sure what wire it is that is need and what wires need to be cut for sure. Ive seen a few posts (here and elsewhere) that are somewhat different, but neither were using the Spider IV amps, not sure if that makes a difference or not. I really appreciate the feedback!


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#11 spaceatl

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 05:47 AM

exactly...A RJ45 telco splitter....LAN splitters will not work...that is totally different...This is serial comm(RS232 or midi) over RJ45...Not an IP network.

 

I have only ever used this mod on a SV MK1, Flextone III XL and POD XT...If I am recalling correctly, the Spider IV has midi...have you tried midi out on the FBV amp to midi in on the mon FBV amp...That would be preferred over this mod....The only reason I did it was to use the MK1 with the Flex...I don't need the mod with the MK2 amp since it has midi...

 

What I can say is that you have to follow the instructions exactly...Even then, this mod is a hack... powering up the amps is a little tricky...I have a few notes in the thread about it...IT has been years since I needed it...It was handy at the time...But really more of an academic mod...I just did it to see it would work...It works, but it things can get a little weird sometimes because one amp is only listening and not synchronized... 


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#12 TheRealZap

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 05:49 AM

all the FBV's get powered by the same pair... so i think the pair that needs ommitted would be the same regardless of amp... i think that space originally did this with a spider and a flextone in fact.


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#13 jschires

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 06:00 AM

The Spider IV only has the RJ45 connector for the FBV MKII Shortboard, it doesnt have a midi in and out. I didnt see a thread that tallked about powering up the amps. It is on this forum? Thanks for the reply!


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#14 jschires

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 06:03 AM

This is the thread I was reading http://line6.com/sup...ew/thread/51497


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#15 jschires

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 06:19 AM

Here's what Ive tried:

 

1. I cut the end of off one Cat 5e cable (this cable ran the pedal perfectly before cutting the end off)

2. Used 2 RJ45 splitters -C184-03793_chiclet01_ac_mn_294174.jpg

3. Connected all 8 wires to one of them and jumped the green (#6) over to the other splitter.

4. Cable is plugged into the back of the main amp (with the 2 splitters hanging).

5. When plugging into the jack that has all 8 wires, ran to the pedal, the pedal runs the amp perfectly. Plugged another cable into the jack that only has the green wire, ran to the slave amp and it does nothing.


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#16 spaceatl

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 06:35 AM

I found the original pics for the original thread...I think I have a pdf of the thread some place...I am going to reconstruct it as soon as I can....I just need to make sure my info is right as it has been a long while since I used it...


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#17 jschires

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 07:18 AM

That would be awesome!!

 

The only thing I can think of that might be wrong with my attempt is that the green might not be the right one for the Spider IV or FBV MKII Shortboard.


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#18 jschires

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 07:29 AM

Does anyone know which wires are power for the pedal? Eliminating those would make testing much simpler ;-)
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#19 jschires

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 12:54 PM


RJ45 Pin # Wire Color
(T568A) Wire Diagram
(T568A) 10Base-T Signal
100Base-TX Signal 1000Base-T Signal
1 White/Green Transmit+ BI_DA+
2 Green Transmit- BI_DA-
3 White/Orange Receive+ BI_DB+
4 Blue Unused BI_DC+
5 White/Blue Unused BI_DC-
6 Orange Receive- BI_DB-
7 White/Brown Unused BI_DD+
8 Brown Unused BI_DD-

This is what confuses me in deciding which to splice to receive signal to the 2nd (slave) amp. I've read in a few other posts that it's #6 green, but from the looks of this it could be #6 orange. I'm not very knowledgable on rj45
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#20 jschires

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 12:40 PM

all the FBV's get powered by the same pair... so i think the pair that needs ommitted would be the same regardless of amp... i think that space originally did this with a spider and a flextone in fact.


Do you know which pair powers the FBV?
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#21 TheRealZap

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 12:41 PM

I do not.

 

Do you know which pair powers the FBV?


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#22 broadwood

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:58 AM

Hi Guys

 

I'd like to jump on board here as this is something i would like to also do. Just wondering, has anyone actually approached line 6 tech support about this and if so what did they have to say about it?

 

I have a background in electronics and before i even had a look on the web i realised there would be problems using network switches etc because of the power required for the fbv. I also found on the web that someone had tried using one and fried their PCB !!!.

 

I haven't tried anything as yet as i want to gather as much info as possible before even attempting. But, to my mind, it should just be a case of isolating the power wires and bussing the receive wires together ( the transmit from the slave amp shouldn't be required). however, what I'm not sure of is if there is any handshake protocol between the amps and FBV's, if so we may all be barking up the wrong tree here. It may be as simple as just bussing the receive (or rather transmit from FBV) wires so it feeds the second amp simultaneously but have all other connections to the slave broken. In this way, i'm guessing that you would connect and power up the first amp to fbv so all power and handshake requirements are met, then connect our fbv transmit buss to an already powered up slave amp. With no other connections made it should respond to commands (unless it requires a completed handshake before it will receive). If it does need to handshake then we will need to find a way to fool it which may be difficult.


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#23 jschires

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 06:40 AM

Your Theory sounds correct to me. I have tried to make this work but so far have been unsuccessful. Thankfully I have not fried anything, but it still only controls the one (master) amp in my case. Would really love to get this working if anyone has any other ideas.


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#24 broadwood

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 08:26 AM

Just read through this thread again. I think your on the right lines js, but i think it needs more than one wire connected. using a meter on your splitter may help isolate the power wires, i doubt if it would be ac and i would expect it to be no more than 5 volts dc. It could be rs232 connection or more likely rs485 which i'm not totally familiar with. RS 232 is a serial connection and needs two wires to transmit/recieve. You need both I believe due to handshaking. The more i think about it the more i think there is handshaking involved (so both units know the state of the other). Ive requested a service manual from support which they refused, (i'm not surprised) but I've requested specific information on the connection. I don't see why they won't give it but if they don't then this may not be an option for us. I'll keep you posted...


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#25 jschires

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 09:27 AM

Looking forward to your updates. Im not very familiar with wiring electronics, so hopefully you will find a solution to this. Its nice to see another person interested in making this work!


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#26 broadwood

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 01:15 AM

Hmm! Line 6 support doesn't seem to be very helpful. They don't want to impart any information but encourage me to use the forum to see if anyone else can help. This just encourages people to trial and error without the proper information which could result in damage or injury. Pretty much any other manufacturer would supply information. It's not like a major product secret surely? It's simply a data connection!

 

That is such a shame,


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#27 jschires

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 06:59 AM

I agree completely! I love the sound of my amp but seriously considering purchasing something else. I wanted to control 2 amps with one pedal so that I can run one left stage and one right stage. Without this option (which seems like it shouldnt be that difficult of an answer from them), purchasing a different setup may be my only choice. I can mic one and run it to the other amp, but I wanted to run slightly different tones/effects on each amp. Would be awesome if you find a way to get the handshake you mentioned above to work!


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#28 TheRealZap

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 07:13 AM

it's not a supported feature... pretty straightforward.

if you're trying to do something outside of the original design you're on your own...

sorry, but i think your expectations that line6 will help you re-engineer their product for your specific needs is the fault here....

not saying you can't or shouldn't try what you're suggesting...

just saying... putting it on line6 in this instance is a stretch.

 

Hmm! Line 6 support doesn't seem to be very helpful. They don't want to impart any information but encourage me to use the forum to see if anyone else can help. This just encourages people to trial and error without the proper information which could result in damage or injury. Pretty much any other manufacturer would supply information. It's not like a major product secret surely? It's simply a data connection!

 

That is such a shame,


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#29 jschires

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 07:52 AM

Ultimately Im looking at going with a different pedal/footswitch. The need to control both amps is a must and so far Ive had no luck with this mod :-( All in a days work...


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#30 fflbrgst

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 05:07 AM

The easy solution would be, obviously, separate FBVs for each amp (especially since you wnat differnet tones on each amp), but that would require some dancing around on pedals on stage - easiest to do changes between songs (or during breaks in a song) only.


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#31 jschires

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 06:32 AM

Having different tones on each amp would still be controllable from one FBV if we could make it work. The settings on each amp can be different as long as they are assigned to the same bank/channel. That was my ultimate goal with this. Having 2 FBV's would be way to much of a hassle during a song that may have several say clean to dirty transitions.


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#32 TheRealZap

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 07:53 AM

you can probably do pretty much what you want with one of those behringer midi foot controllers. i see them pretty regularly for 80-100$ on ebay/CL

(assuming your amps have midi... i dont recall your specific amps)

although i do believe space when he said he made it work... but i'm not terribly adventurous when it comes to putting my gear at risk... so i understand.


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#33 jschires

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 07:58 AM

Unfortunately it doesn't have midi, only RJ45 connection. I believe space did make it work, although you was using 2 different amps if I remember correctly. These are 2 Spider IV's 150 Combo amps.


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#34 broadwood

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 03:29 AM

Hi guys. I haven't forgotten about this. I've recently got some bits together to build a test rig, it's not going to be quick but ill post my findings when they occur.

What I'm doing to get around it is, I bought the line 6 two button footswitch that switches between the settings in a single bank and a kill switch. So it gives me 'some' control albeit limited. Also, ill use the footswitch to experiment with and find out what's what signal wise. This works for me as I like to mix straight sounds from one amp with effected sounds from the other. There's only so many straight sounds you need, maybe one dirt one clean so blending these with the full effected amp sounds great to me. The only bug bear is I have no volume control over the second amp, which is why I'm still interested in getting this going.

Don't lose hope js :0)
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