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Acoustic Sounds Get Worser From Update To Update?


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#81 Rewolf48

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 07:18 AM

Don't forget that the software has to cope with a wide range of string gauges, playing styles and manufacturing tolerances - it is only to be expected that it will include some sort of dynamic compression before modelling. The global settings apply before this stage, so the trick is to get the level when that compression is minimised for your specific guitar, set-up and playing style without going too low in level and killing the resonating string on the sitar for example. 

 

When I did this I was down at -7db on the lower 4 strings and -4db on the top 2.  Then I upgraded the firmware and at didn't sound good at all. So if you do a firmware upgrade you need to reset the global string levels back to 100% and then calibrate them again.

 

I really wish that when connected to Workbench HD there was an auto calibrate procedure that allowed you to strum the strings as hard as you would normally do when playing loudly and for the software automatically adjust the level for each string to that point where compression is minimised.


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#82 zedopaido

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 05:12 AM

Hi guys,

I just recorded a little groove on both firmwares. 

I played a gig over the weekend and this guy walked up to me saying he had a variax 89  and wanted to  know what pedals I was using.

I showed him I simply plug direct into the mixer with some reverb he was like.......WTF?? 

Then I told him I was still on firmware 1.71 and he urged me to record a little comparison and email it over as he wanted to try to replicate the settings . I emailed him some strumming stuff on both firmware.

 

Oh also shall I mention that he has a Pod Hd?

 

I just decided to record and post it here the groove I was jamming on that night. It is very simple groove which I just learned from Kevin Davis Ban Caribe, check them out they got so much soul and sabor!!

 

Most times I play using the E and A strings one octave down on the acoustic and that's how I was playing that night.

 

Anyway on this recording I started with firmware 1.71 and I have 5 acoustic sounds. from 00;00 - 01:44

From 01:49 are all my acoustic sounds that I have on HD I've tweaked some sounds on HD so I have 7 banks.

The 12 string guitars have only 6 strings on both firmware.

The HD firmware sometimes makes it uncomfortable to play (for me) ,as I hear and you will hear too this sometimes harsh sound even though I tried to maintain the same way playing through the loop, not plucking too hard.

 

I really dislike and sometimes wonder how line 6 technicians managed to make the low strings and octave down sound worst  on HD. As you can hear they are clearly scooped out, even the highs sounds are rolled off. 

Ok The only useable selection to ME on HD is the one on 03:54 .

 

I love the octave down on firmware 1.71!

 

 

I recorded this in real time and tried to keep the same tempo and sometimes shifting/rushing the tempo can be inevitable, sorry .

.

http://www.4shared.c...E_COMPARIS.html

(This recording is not a demonstration of my playing )

 

No Eq or amplifier was used , total flat.  The recording was done straight into Cubase with a touch of reverb.  

 

Also my new discovery doing this tests was between re-flashing from 1.71 to hd 2.10 I kept playing the guitar thinking of what to record. All of sudden the sound cut off and only the piezos. I repeat only the pure piezo was audible. And I was like Wow..... they sounded different and even more normal sounding, no steroids whatsoever. Of course it lasted for about a minute as the guitar wass updating itself then it cuts off to  no sounds.

 

But this little experience made me wonder , how nice it would be to have access to the pure organic piezo sound with no steroids and then be able work on workbench  from there.

 

 

here is the recording , and soon I will record something using that awesome piezo sound while is re-flashing.

This guitar as so many simple expandability and profitable  possibilities to line 6 that it is ridiculous how limited I find myself with HD. Anyway it is just my opinion,   I hope they still have they heart on it though. 


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#83 radatats

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 06:51 AM

I'd like to check it out but you should find a more user friendly host than the one you are using...


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Quit complaining and DO something or help somebody with their issues...


#84 guitarno

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 07:33 AM

Yes, I agree, the host you have this file on is not a great place to share files. First they wanted to download some junkware onto my machine, then I need to "Sign on with Facebook" to get the file. I'm not willing to jump through hoops to listen to this. Maybe you should post it to to a reputable site like dropbox, or soundcloud.


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#85 zedopaido

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 10:03 PM

woops

\sorry I will try another host.


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#86 zedopaido

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 10:15 PM

here it is on soundcloud, just a simple groove to show my own frustration lol

Oh hopefully next time I can play it better

 

https://soundcloud.c...ware-comparison


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#87 guitarno

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 08:10 AM

Thanks for re-loading that file on Soundcloud. Much easier to get to there. The sounds are definitely different, it’s subtle, but it’s there. In this recording it sounds to me that the midrange in the 2nd section is a little muffled & woofy for lack of a better term. It has a sort of an unusual character to it, and not really authentically acoustic sounding. To me, the 1st examples have some of the same midrange tone to them, but to a lesser degree, and they do sound a little better in this clip, a little thinner and clearer.

 

   I started to notice this in my own acoustic patches recently. I wasn’t really aware of it before, and was pretty happy with the acoustic sounds, but there is this midrange overtone to them just like in your example. Something that maybe needs to be EQ’ed out to make it sound better. Unfortunately I am not an expert at EQ, and I don’t have a definitive answer, but I’m sure there are a few EQ bands that need to be adjusted to get this midrange honk out, and that it would improve the acoustic tone.


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#88 clay-man

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 10:18 PM

It sounds like a mic'd up acoustic to me, but it is kind of muddy. You can compensate with EQing. I tried EQing the old firmware to make it sound like a mic'd up acoustic but it really don't pull it like the new firmware does imo.


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For a minute there, I lost myself.

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#89 zedopaido

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 10:27 AM

Ok

here is another comparison I just found on youtube.

Now please , pay attention  to the acoustic sounds.

This guy is playing strumming a very simple  passage could be found in 100 songs.

To me the HD acoustic sounds are just ......un-swallowable  if there's such a word. 

My understand is ....which top 40 songs can we hear (or imagine) that an acoustic guitar (strummed) was recorded  with a mic ???  

Well the answer my be very low specially if you keep in mind the core of my question...strumming. None.....or a few which are mostly  a suave blend of mic + piezo

 

The HD 2.10 ; IMO offers an excessive mid hump on acoustic which is a trade off , only benefiting lead soloing or specific styles of fingerpicking, or music the guitar is featured on its own. Forget strumming or siting nicely in a band mix , nor even singing along will sweeten the annoyance.

 

The option of  Eq-uing frequencies out will just stuff-up  the other models when plugged straight into a mixer or acoustic amp. 

 

Buying a Pod Hd ( spending your cash and adding gear to set up in a gig) in order to try to get the eq on the acoustics right is just ridiculous since they will never sound like the previews model. The solution should be simpler 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=UfX70Ib76Dg


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