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Potential new member of the POD family with some questions

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#1 Fenderflame

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 12:23 PM

Hi All

 

I currently play a JTV59 amongst other guitars through a Zoom G5 into a Mesa Nomad 45 with a programmable EQ in the FX loop.

 

I'm looking at getting rid of the EQ and the Zoom in favour of running a HD500X using the four cable method so I get the EQ after the pre-amp when I need it.

 

I'm in a covers band and also sing BV and some lead. What I am wondering is if the below is possible. It's not a big deal if not, just curious.

 

With the JTV can I set up some patches that will go from guitar to POD, then to the Mesa pre-amp, back to the POD and then out through the power amp (4 cables) whilst also having some Variax acoustic patches that go from guitar to POD then out to a PA mixer? I don't think I want acoustic patches to go to the Mesa power amp and then out through the Mesa speaker as it would sound odd.

 

If the above is possible, can I add one more level of complexity?

 

Can I pug my mic into the POD and have that running through the POD basically unaffected to the mixer for most songs but be able to put delays and harmonies etc on the vocal signal for some songs? 

 

Essentially can I split the Variax signal so that sometimes it goes to amp and sometimes to PA?  Whilst also having a mic plugged in that also goes to PA?

 

In case you are wondering why I'd want to do this, we regularly gig pinball wizard which needs the acoustic and electric sounds. It would be great to have  the switching running from just a foot tap on one unit instead of hitting an A/B box and the Variax button on the guitar simultaneously like I do at present.

 

We are also putting Queen's 'Don't stop me now' in the set with it's 5 part harmonies. I know there are plenty of vocal processors out there - just wondering if this is all do-able from one box rather than having two?

 

Thanks


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#2 pianoguyy

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 04:13 PM

Question one - you would need to set up patches in stereo so that left goes to the amp and right goes to pa. 

Question two - yes, you would need to set up a dual path (if using a mic and guitar at the same time), and as above, set up a stereo so that one side goes to. 

Question three - yes, all of those inputs can be used. but not at the same time. You are limited to two of them. The Pod allow you to select (per patch) which inputs to use. 

 

 

 

BUT

Let me make the suggestion --- 

skip 4cm. Go direct to PA. Guitar > pod > pa. No amp needed. You can (because of multiple outputs), still use an amp to monitor yourself. 


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And it sure would be nice if I could use 500edit on my Android Phone or Android Tablet to manage my Pod when not at home.

Even if it needs to be a '500 Lite' version that only allows for the import and export of patches, and not a full-fledged working program.

Something needs done. 

 

 


#3 Fenderflame

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:48 PM

Question one - you would need to set up patches in stereo so that left goes to the amp and right goes to pa. 
Question two - yes, you would need to set up a dual path (if using a mic and guitar at the same time), and as above, set up a stereo so that one side goes to. 
Question three - yes, all of those inputs can be used. but not at the same time. You are limited to two of them. The Pod allow you to select (per patch) which inputs to use. 
 
 
 
BUT
Let me make the suggestion --- 
skip 4cm. Go direct to PA. Guitar > pod > pa. No amp needed. You can (because of multiple outputs), still use an amp to monitor yourself.


Hi Pianoguy

Thanks for the comprehensive response. The HD500X does look like an amazing piece of kit. I have slight concerns in that it is 3-4 years old already and I know how much the technology has moved on in that time. I understand Firehawk is similar but with less routing options and a tablet editor rather than PC. This pushes me back to HD500X. I can see Line6 dropping POD for Firehawk and Helix and worry that I'm buying obsolescence, but then I do have a 20year old amp!).

I might ditch the amp one day but I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet. Happy to use modelling for recording but there's something about an amp live. I might get the POD and be so blown away that there is no reason to keep the Mesa, we'll see.
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#4 cruisinon2

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 06:13 AM

Hi Pianoguy

Thanks for the comprehensive response. The HD500X does look like an amazing piece of kit. I have slight concerns in that it is 3-4 years old already and I know how much the technology has moved on in that time. I understand Firehawk is similar but with less routing options and a tablet editor rather than PC. This pushes me back to HD500X. I can see Line6 dropping POD for Firehawk and Helix and worry that I'm buying obsolescence, but then I do have a 20year old amp!).


Not an unreasonable concern...the HD series ain't new, and the current focus is clearly on Helix. I would not expect anything much to be added to the PODs at this point. Sometime in the not too distant future, I expect there to be some other offering in sub-$1K territory for those who can't/won't pony up for a Helix...but who knows? They could keep seeking the POD as-is for another 5 years, too...time will tell.
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#5 pianoguyy

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 06:27 AM

Well, actually - it is much older. 

The HD500 was released in 2010.

The HD500X was not a new design or new programming. The main processor of the HD500 was no longer being made, so L6 had to buy a different one which resulted in a slight bump in RAM (it is not RAM, it is DSP, but most computer users understand what RAM is, not DSP). And, they also started to use different footswitches to make it look like a different unit (a marketing ploy). 

But, in reality, the two units are exactly the same. Which means you are looking at a unit that was released 7 years ago. And there is no way to know how long before that the programming existed. The age is one of the reasons why bluetooth, wi-fi, and Android are not being used. Those things weren't as commonplace, or advanced, in 2010.

 

BUT, fear not, music technology does not move as fast as other tech. Keyboards, as example, were using floppy discs up until a few years ago (2010-ish). And the only reason they stopped --- Microsoft and computer manufactures, stopped including floppy discs as standard equipment. I can stuff hundreds of songs onto a 1.44mb floppy disc because midi technology is measured in kilobytes. MP3 tech, however, is measured in megabytes. Very few of my midi songs are over 100kb, with most being single digits. But all of my mp3 music is at least 3mb. 

 

 

Firehawk is not replacing HD. Firehawk was made for the coffee drinking selfie-crowd. HD was made for musicians. 

The Helix, however, is the latest tech for musicians. L6 will not confirm that HD is dead because they still have product to move, but... 

 

 

 

 

Hey, if you don't chase technology (always needing the newest toy), then get the HD. My biggest fear is that the driver support will stop before I am ready to move on. Like you, my unit replaced my 20-30 year old rig. I mean, I was using an ART SGE Mach II and Rocktron Pro GAP up until 3 years ago. I am too busy making music to be concerned with "oh no, there is a new product available". But I can't imagine that Yamaha (new owners of L6) and Microsoft are going to be interested in allowing me to hook up my HD500 in 2030. 

**Oh, also, I had a Rockman Soloist (an original model) in my rig. It not only worked great on stage, but was great for hotels and tour buses when I needed to use headphones. 

 

 

 

here's the deal --- 

- Any patch you make is going to sound different when you run it through your amp than if you run it direct to a PA (or personal monitor). Amps provide personality/tone. That is why you buy one amp vs another amp, you prefer its tone. A Fender model will never sound like a Fender when coming through a Mesa because the Mesa will all add Mesa personality to the signal. That means that if you ditch the amp in the future, you need to rewrite all of your patches to accommodate for loss of amp tone. 

- Also, because you are looking at fx loops, any patch you write will need to be re-written if you drop the fx loop. FX Loop takes up a block in your patch which could be used for something important. Plus, as mentioned above, you need to adjust the tone based on the loss of the amp tone. 

- Pack up, load in, set up, sound check, tear down, loud out, and unpack. It will take you a grand total of 10 minutes if you go amp-less.

- It is a lot easier to fly with your rig if you do not have an amp - Making more gigs accessible.  

- Many smaller venues are going the way of "quiet stage", amps aren't allowed. Get prepared now.

- Many larger stages require IEM's because there is no way to turn you up loud enough to be heard on the other side of the stage.  

- The sound guy will love that he doesn't have to compete with a 100watt 4x10. Your FOH sound will be so much better when you go amp-less. Better sound equals happier fans, which equals more gigs. 

- You are eventually going to go ampless even though you have reservations about it now. Resistance is futile. Go amp-less now. 


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And it sure would be nice if I could use 500edit on my Android Phone or Android Tablet to manage my Pod when not at home.

Even if it needs to be a '500 Lite' version that only allows for the import and export of patches, and not a full-fledged working program.

Something needs done. 

 

 


#6 Smashcraaft

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 11:55 AM

WORD!
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"I´m from Germany and I try to express myself understandable. But anyway… please excuse my poor english!"
FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#7 Fenderflame

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 01:53 PM

Resistance is futile. Go amp-less now.


I admire your passion. I'm still in love with my Mesa so not ready to dump it just yet. I've just missed out on a couple of PODs on the 'bay but will keep on looking.

Thanks for your help.
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#8 pianoguyy

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 05:30 AM

I am not forcing you to buy the unit. That is your decision. 

But, if you do buy it, save yourself the hassle. Go ampless from Day 1. 


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And it sure would be nice if I could use 500edit on my Android Phone or Android Tablet to manage my Pod when not at home.

Even if it needs to be a '500 Lite' version that only allows for the import and export of patches, and not a full-fledged working program.

Something needs done. 

 

 


#9 cruisinon2

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 07:20 AM

Going amp-less is a lot like trying to quit smoking. If you don't actually WANT to stop, you won't...;)
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#10 ADBrown

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 08:07 AM

Firehawk is not replacing HD. Firehawk was made for the coffee drinking selfie-crowd. HD was made for musicians. 

 

 
Does that mean if I drink coffee, take selfies, and use Firehawk FX I'm not a musician? :P


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#11 cruisinon2

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 10:59 AM

Does that mean if I drink coffee, take selfies, and use Firehawk FX I'm not a musician? :P


Only if you're compelled to "selfie" the entire process of aquiring, consuming, and of course the post-mortem qualitative assessment of the coffee...which you then proceed to broadcast to everyone on earth with access to an internet connection, so that all of humanity may share in your "adventure"...
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#12 JTSC777

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Posted 21 February 2017 - 11:10 AM

I run my POD into a cab simulator and the front end or effect return of one of my tube amps just for a monitor.The cab sim goes to the PA and the thru output goes to my amp and it absolutely kills.I can turn my amp up down or sideways without blowing the FOH mix.I also use in ears and they sound great.I have to add though that my bands use digital mixers so I always have my own mix controllable with the tablet I have on my mic stand.Its a great setup for a singer/ geetar player.The POD can be used so many ways for gigging.This is my second time around with it and its even more effective and fun now!
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#13 pianoguyy

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 08:50 AM

Only if you're compelled to "selfie" the entire process of aquiring, consuming, and of course the post-mortem qualitative assessment of the coffee...which you then proceed to broadcast to everyone on earth with access to an internet connection, so that all of humanity may share in your "adventure"...

I didn't even bring up tight vests and fedoras. 


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And it sure would be nice if I could use 500edit on my Android Phone or Android Tablet to manage my Pod when not at home.

Even if it needs to be a '500 Lite' version that only allows for the import and export of patches, and not a full-fledged working program.

Something needs done. 

 

 


#14 cruisinon2

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:19 AM

I didn't even bring up tight vests and fedoras.


No skinny jeans?
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#15 pianoguyy

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:24 AM

Not a requirement, as sometimes they wear "slacks" with their tight vest. 


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And it sure would be nice if I could use 500edit on my Android Phone or Android Tablet to manage my Pod when not at home.

Even if it needs to be a '500 Lite' version that only allows for the import and export of patches, and not a full-fledged working program.

Something needs done. 

 

 


#16 BillBee

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:26 AM

.................... man-bun.


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Smell the glove.


#17 cruisinon2

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Posted 22 February 2017 - 09:45 AM

Lol. Social media baffles me. Click..."Look world, I'm at the bank! Next it's Target, and then Walgreens. Not sure if I'll have time to get the car washed, because I kinda need to take a dump. Tune in at 2:30 pm for the wrap-up".

Nobody cares...
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#18 scott58

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 06:43 PM

You'll have to pry the tubes from my cold dead hands.
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#19 line6bbd

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 11:56 AM

You'll have to pry the tubes from my cold dead hands.

 

I used to feel that way too, but not any more. As so often Pianoguyy is right.

 

And this thread is great :)


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#20 Fenderflame

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 06:11 AM

Thanks for your help so far guys - one more question...

 

Can I use the HD's XLR out and 1/4" out simultaneously? I'm after sending the left channel 1/4" out to my amp's FX return (4CM) and the left channel XLR out to a Soundcraft Ui16 mixer where I can build a cab sim for it. The idea being that I get my signal in the PA and monitor mixes at the same time as it is going through my amp. Most venues we play at are 50 - 500 people so sometimes it'll be a tiny venue and I'd want to have low stage volume and run my guitar amp really low and other times I'd want the bass player to be able to hear me loud and clear through his monitor over the other side of stage.

 

I'm thinking that the answer is probably 'yes' but just want to check.

 

Thanks

 

 

 


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#21 pfsmith0

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 09:03 AM

Yes, however, if you plug in just the left (or right) 1/4" jack then it will sum L/R to mono. But the XLR will always retain the stereo signal. So, depending on what FX you're using, you may get different signals at the 1/4" and XLR outputs. One solution is the use a dummy plug in the unused 1/4" jack. This will keep the signal stereo for the 1/4" connections, so it'll be the same as the XLR outputs. Each will only get one channel L or R of the stereo output.


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#22 pianoguyy

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 05:32 PM

you can use them both at the same time, but left is left and right is right. You aren't going to program xlr right to be different from 1/4" right.

 

 

*as mentioned above. 1/4" sums to mono.

 

 

 

Many users do what you said --- go direct to PA, and then have an amp on stage for monitoring. 

The tone coming from an "amp" will be different than if it is a monitor/frfr type unit. But it's not meant for tone, it's meant just to hear yourself. 


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And it sure would be nice if I could use 500edit on my Android Phone or Android Tablet to manage my Pod when not at home.

Even if it needs to be a '500 Lite' version that only allows for the import and export of patches, and not a full-fledged working program.

Something needs done. 

 

 


#23 pianoguyy

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 05:34 PM

As so often Pianoguyy is right.

PianoGuyY is always right.

But the problem is --- he knows he is right and he's not afraid to tell you that he is right. 


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And it sure would be nice if I could use 500edit on my Android Phone or Android Tablet to manage my Pod when not at home.

Even if it needs to be a '500 Lite' version that only allows for the import and export of patches, and not a full-fledged working program.

Something needs done. 

 

 


#24 Fenderflame

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 12:52 PM

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I've been using it a while and it works really well. Now to take it one stage further...

The 1/4" left out goes to the amp (4CM) and the XLR left goes to the mixer. Now, I want to make a patch where I send a signal to the right channel only. I use a Variax (amongst other guitars) just on the 1/4" guitar input. There are some songs (think 'pinball wizard' with acoustic parts (right XLR output only to PA mixer channel 2) and electric parts (4CM) to left 1/4" and left XLR to PA mixer channel 1.

I'm guessing somehow I set this up as two patches but how do I stop acoustic sounds going through the 4CM signal?

Any thoughts?

Thanks
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#25 pianoguyy

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 01:35 PM

Assuming you have the patch set up correctly ----- you need to insert a "dummy" plug into the right 1/4. 

XLR is always left or right, never both. But the 1/4 will sum to mono if you only use one jack. 

The dummy plug will "trick" the pod into thinking you have two amps hooked up, one left and one right. 


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And it sure would be nice if I could use 500edit on my Android Phone or Android Tablet to manage my Pod when not at home.

Even if it needs to be a '500 Lite' version that only allows for the import and export of patches, and not a full-fledged working program.

Something needs done. 

 

 


#26 Fenderflame

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Posted 12 June 2017 - 09:56 PM

Thanks, so I guess that means I need to set up all my electric patches to 'hard left' in the POD's mixer, and all acoustic patches to 'hard right'?
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#27 pianoguyy

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 04:36 AM

Yes. Hard left. Hard right.

You can also set up dual paths for when you need both.

The one thing that you need to watch, is to make sure that you do not use any effects that will sum to mono.

 

The expert answers are beyond my usage. I can just answer the basics.


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And it sure would be nice if I could use 500edit on my Android Phone or Android Tablet to manage my Pod when not at home.

Even if it needs to be a '500 Lite' version that only allows for the import and export of patches, and not a full-fledged working program.

Something needs done. 

 

 


#28 Fenderflame

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 03:04 PM

Hi All. I set up a new set list and copied everything across and then set up the panning. Works like a dream. Even 5 years back I wouldn't have dreamed I'd ever have a rig that sounded this good and was this flexible. Thanks for all your help.
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