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Redwirez v Ownhammer


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#1 timmyo

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 12:37 PM

Anyone own both and compare them properly? :-) 

 

 


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#2 rd2rk

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:20 PM

It's not really possible to "properly" compare IRs - you try 'em, you like 'em or you don't. This IR sounds great with this amp, like puke with that one.

 

That said, the usual comment on the difference is that Redwirez gives you so many choices, it causes paralysis by analysis. If you have real world experience micing amps in a studio, more is better. For simple players like me, less is better. However, comparing a specific cab with a specific mic at a specific speaker location, Redwirez has surprised me a couple of times by sounding, to me, more clear and open. Please don't ask for specifics, my poor little brain doesn't retain that stuff.

 

You could try buying your favorite real world cab in both lines and comparing them?


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#3 spikey

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 03:26 PM

Agree with rd2, everyone's ears are different and if both sound good some will like one while others like the other one.

The ears you will have to please the most is your own.


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Too much measuring and not enough music-making...    :lol: 

 


#4 willjrock

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 04:06 PM

rd2rk pretty much says it all. I can add that one is not a better quality of IR than the other, but each company has its own approach in capturing, and the overall libraries definitely have their own vibe.

 

As well as using different cab, mics, room, methods, engineers, speaker types, processing, ect, Redwirez tends to allow room sounds to interact with the capture moreso  - which i often prefer. Sometimes though, the Celestion or Ownhammer IR is just the thing.

 

There is room for both in your library. 

The best advice i can give, to allow you to make the most of your time is - study up on sounds you like and gravitate towards those files. The IR sounds are advertised as "near exact replications"

 

If your influence used a Bogner cab with v30's and a 57, and thats the sound youre after, then start there.

 

Sure it can be fun to leaf thru unfamiliar cabs and their files one by one, but it can also become time consuming and lead to fatigue, as well as confusion. This place is know as "the rabbit hole"  :)

 

My biggest complaint about IRs is that  - How do you know if you want to buy the Marshall IRs just because you like the free Mesas or whatever. Its similar to test driving an Acura and asking if you now want to buy a BMW.

 

You cant go wrong with either, but to avoid any disappointment, know what your influences use and buy those cabs first.  Good luck. 


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45 yrs old  


#5 rd2rk

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 05:50 PM

Something to consider: Redwirez has a "guide" to using their IRs that can provide some generally useful advice for any IRs that use mic placement (distances and speaker positioning), and also some basic info about the differences in the way various mics sound and common uses. This is all free on their site, check it out!


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#6 Guitarmaniac64

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 03:07 AM

rd2rk pretty much says it all. I can add that one is not a better quality of IR than the other, but each company has its own approach in capturing, and the overall libraries definitely have their own vibe.

 

As well as using different cab, mics, room, methods, engineers, speaker types, processing, ect, Redwirez tends to allow room sounds to interact with the capture moreso  - which i often prefer. Sometimes though, the Celestion or Ownhammer IR is just the thing.

 

There is room for both in your library. 

The best advice i can give, to allow you to make the most of your time is - study up on sounds you like and gravitate towards those files. The IR sounds are advertised as "near exact replications"

 

If your influence used a Bogner cab with v30's and a 57, and thats the sound youre after, then start there.

 

Sure it can be fun to leaf thru unfamiliar cabs and their files one by one, but it can also become time consuming and lead to fatigue, as well as confusion. This place is know as "the rabbit hole"  :)

 

My biggest complaint about IRs is that  - How do you know if you want to buy the Marshall IRs just because you like the free Mesas or whatever. Its similar to test driving an Acura and asking if you now want to buy a BMW.

 

You cant go wrong with either, but to avoid any disappointment, know what your influences use and buy those cabs first.  Good luck. 

Well on 3Sigmas website they have a recorded metal riff and some clean arpeggios for ever cab they have captured.

The metal riff for 4X12 and the clean arpeggio for some of the more "common" clean sounding cabs like the Roland JC120 and Vox AC 30 the PRS Archon 2X12 cab have the metal riff even if that amp is having a really great clean sound

 

What is great is that it is the same riff and single arpeggio for every cab

 

Ownhammer on the other hand have their sound demos using full band "songs" which is odd as the guitar tone isnt heard that much as it would be if they choosed guitar only.

 

There is some few of those demos that start with guitar only without anything else like on one demo of the the Diezel 4X12.

 

And almost all other IR makers put out demo tones of their IR,s CabIReu even have their customers putting up their tones on the website which is great.

 

BUT Redwirez dont have any demo sounds at all which is really bad.

 

But that really dont answer your question.

 

As it isnt you who is playing and everyone is playing different and also sound different even if they choose the exactly the same gear

 

But those sound demos can make you choose one cab over another cab.


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#7 benifin

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 05:18 AM

Hi timmyo

 

Not trying to side-track this thread but I just posted the link below over at TGP a few hours ago:-

 

https://www.thegearp...posts/23712369/

 

By all means go the IR "hunt"  if you need / want / must ..... but honestly, not only is there no real need, but as the others have said, there is no  "better"  or  "best"  .... only what your ears prefer.

 

Ben


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#8 PierM

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 05:40 AM

Anyone own both and compare them properly? :-) 

 

They are all great, but RedWire are very hardcore productions, with average 800 iRs per cab, subdivided by average 18 mics each. A single cab has average 7000 IRs, for different frequencies, different hardware etc. It's pro material but probably more studio oriented than guitar player. At least that what I feel myself, as too much stuff to play with, for me, it's not always a good thing. It's really a massive amount of material that sometimes may make you feeling sick of tweaking and trying and comparing etc etc.

 

I've all of them, but now I do prefer 3Sigma. They are great quality, but just a bunch of variations per cab, so I don't have to go crazy with things and more important, I don't feel like I still have a million of iRs to test before find the right one. :)


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#9 amsdenj

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 06:06 AM

I have the Redwirez BigBox IR set, and find them quite good. Mike Scuffham selected a few choice Redwirez IRs for S-Gear, and I really trust Mike's ears a lot more than my own. There's a lot of variables that impact the IRs: recording technique, room, specific mics (not just types), exact mic positions, how much of the cabinet is captured, post processing and IR mixing, etc. But I suspect the most significant difference is the cabinets and speakers themselves. They're all different. Even different speakers of the same model in the same cabinet will sound different.

For example, I have IRs from a number of vendors that are close or nearly exactly modeling the 2x12 Fender closed back cabinet I have loaded with Celestion G12-65s. Just for fun I tried creating my own IR of that cabinet using Logic's Impulse Response Utility. I used two mics, an SM57 and AT4047. I then loading that IR into Helix along with similar ones from Redwirez and Celestion and setup two outputs from helix going into diffent channels of the same power amp, one with the IR block going into my FRFR, and the other with no IR or cab model going into the G12-65 cabinet. Perhaps not surprisingly my own IR was much closer to matching the actual cabinet than either the Redwirez or Celestion IRs. They all sounded good, just different.

So I think the point is that although speaker choice has a great impact on amp tone, its probably not productive to obsess over finding the optimal cab or IR model. Its probably better to pick one that's close enough and just play. The subtile differences won't be that apparent in a live gig situation.
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#10 zooey

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 07:46 AM

The Redwirez BigBox set is very economical, no other vendor has a comparable bundle anywhere near that price, afaik. As others have pointed out, they give you tons of options, which is both a positive and a negative. They also have a utility for mixing IRs, which I think is free w their big pack.

There's also a free pack from Line 6, here: http://line6.com/allure/
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#11 Verne-Bunsen

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 08:19 AM

I've got Ownhammer and Redwirez among others, they both make excellent stuff. One thing I like about Ownhammer's packages is that they include their own multi-mic mixes, and they are really good. With the Redwirez I spend a lot more time "auditioning" them and I generally run more than one in parallel to get what I'm after. They do offer an IR mixing utility (MixIR) which seems quite powerful but I haven't tried it yet. I'm worried that I would fall so far down the tone-tweaking rabbit hole that I may never resurface, haha! 3Sigma is also very good and they don't overload you with options. CabIR.eu offers good stuff and they also include mixes.
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#12 gkinder

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Posted 13 March 2017 - 11:42 AM

I have the Redwirez BigBox IR set, and find them quite good. Mike Scuffham selected a few choice Redwirez IRs for S-Gear, and I really trust Mike's ears a lot more than my own. There's a lot of variables that impact the IRs: recording technique, room, specific mics (not just types), exact mic positions, how much of the cabinet is captured, post processing and IR mixing, etc. But I suspect the most significant difference is the cabinets and speakers themselves. They're all different. Even different speakers of the same model in the same cabinet will sound different.

For example, I have IRs from a number of vendors that are close or nearly exactly modeling the 2x12 Fender closed back cabinet I have loaded with Celestion G12-65s. Just for fun I tried creating my own IR of that cabinet using Logic's Impulse Response Utility. I used two mics, an SM57 and AT4047. I then loading that IR into Helix along with similar ones from Redwirez and Celestion and setup two outputs from helix going into diffent channels of the same power amp, one with the IR block going into my FRFR, and the other with no IR or cab model going into the G12-65 cabinet. Perhaps not surprisingly my own IR was much closer to matching the actual cabinet than either the Redwirez or Celestion IRs. They all sounded good, just different.

So I think the point is that although speaker choice has a great impact on amp tone, its probably not productive to obsess over finding the optimal cab or IR model. Its probably better to pick one that's close enough and just play. The subtile differences won't be that apparent in a live gig situation.

 

Dittos....Redwirez BigBox set is a great choice...tons of quality IR's, though you can get lost in all the choices  ;)


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#13 jclarkgtuitarist

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 09:05 AM

Ditto on the Redwirez. My experience is they are well balanced and require less tweaking to get the sounds I want. Also they are phase aligned so you can mix them.


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#14 timmyo

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 10:22 AM

I think I'd prefer some good mic mixes ready to go. For me, playing around trying out my own mixes of individual impulses is probably a step further than I have patience for  :D

 

I may try and Ownhammer cab and see how I get on with it. 

 

Thanks for all the comments - all good food for tought. 


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#15 timmyo

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 11:25 AM

I've purchased the OH 112 Deluxe Reverb pack and the Class A Duo pack - will see how I get on 


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#16 Ka5par

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 04:43 AM

There are some free Redwirez to check out:
http://www.redwirez....5s.jsp?ref=home


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#17 johnonguitar

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:07 AM

I have redwirez and ownhammer IR's as well as a few others and I am by no means a "tweaker" but I was and am really impressed by the Celestion IR's. Go try their free sample on their site
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#18 Verne-Bunsen

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:28 AM

I think I'd prefer some good mic mixes ready to go. For me, playing around trying out my own mixes of individual impulses is probably a step further than I have patience for  :D

 

I may try and Ownhammer cab and see how I get on with it. 

 

Thanks for all the comments - all good food for tought. 

 

 

I look forward to hearing your thoughts! For a starting place in all of those files, I usually go to the "Quick Start" folders within the speaker folders and check out the OH1 and OH2 mixes. Generally I find a couple of those that are "just right". The "Summary" folder, which is a newer addition, also whittles things down nicely.


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#19 Guitarzman

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 06:24 PM

I also have Redwirez, Ownhammer, 3 Sigma, Cellestion and a few others I got online..These four are great in their own way and some sound better with different amp models..Recently I have been using the Redwirez and really enjoying them and am quite surprised how good they sound! But again I have enjoyed all of these IR's.  


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#20 GDan

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 06:39 AM

The celestion IR's are the most "balanced" sounding IRs I've found. Drop em into a mix and they just sound nice, there are only a dozon or so of them in a pack but they're all nicely tuned.

 

3sigma really needed a basscut to be usable in my mixes.


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#21 timmyo

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 07:53 AM

I've been playing with the Ownhammer Class-A Duo pack today - was easy to get a nice sound for a patch I was building just by browsing the 'Summary' folder using floor edit mode :-) 


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#22 miguel_lopez

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 08:45 PM

Hi:

 

just a simple question:

 

Do you think IR's from other companies such as redwires and ownhammer are better than line6 helix original IR's? thank you!

 

(I have ML soundlab to use them with my AX8 and I find them FAR BETTER than fractal original cab models...)


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#23 jbakholt

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 09:58 PM

The celestion IR's are the most "balanced" sounding IRs I've found. Drop em into a mix and they just sound nice, there are only a dozon or so of them in a pack but they're all nicely tuned.

 

3sigma really needed a basscut to be usable in my mixes.

 

And i thought it was just me. I too find the 3 Sigma's way too bass heavy for my taste. The Rosen Digitals are more balanced and less bass heavy but not as balanced as the ones from cabir or ownhammer. I'll have to take the Celestions and the Redwirez for a run but as I remember they are more like OH/Cabir than 3S or RD.


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#24 jaminjimlp

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:38 PM

I got the big box set from Redwires too because I wanted the IRMIX2 plug in to mix IR's It is well worth it...

 

here is how it works I use PT but that don't mater, load up a session create a track load the IRMIX2 plugin to the track put a helix preset on and remove the cab or turn it off add a Looper block to the front of your preset path record a rhythm lead or what ever and set down the guitar and hit play... now start loading up IR's to IRMIX2 and throw as many at it you want remove one add two ect... find something good just save it and load it to the Helix IR list and it sounds exactly how you made it... https://www.dropbox....jg/GHK.wav?dl=0 that is my fav that i made with all kinds of free IR's from around the web. 

 

I have a few Ownhammer packs as well but all thats been said before me I agree with as well... I like the one I made better than each of them but you might hate it... LOL


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May you be blessed and our Lord Jesus keep you!!!


#25 DunedinDragon

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 12:08 AM

Hi:

 

just a simple question:

 

Do you think IR's from other companies such as redwires and ownhammer are better than line6 helix original IR's? thank you!

 

(I have ML soundlab to use them with my AX8 and I find them FAR BETTER than fractal original cab models...)

 

I'm assuming when you refer to Helix original IR's you're talking about the stock cabinets used in the cabinets block?  Those aren't exactly IR's.  They operate somewhat like IR's but are a proprietary construct that can only be used on the Helix.

 

What makes them unique is that unlike typical IR cabinets you can use a single cabinet and make various adjustments such as changing the mic used, changing its distance from the speaker, early reflections, and so forth without changing the actual cabinet as you would with an IR.

 

Some folks swear by them.  I used them for a long time as well, but as I got into exploring various IR's I found the Line 6 cabinets just simply weren't flexible enough on their own.  I could get them close to what I wanted sometimes, but I would typically have to add some external EQ to tame them and get the precise sound I was looking for.  Although IR's are not as convenient because each variation of mic and mic placement is a different IR, they provide the capability (most of them) to position a mic at various locations on the speaker, at different angles (off axis). and even combine room ambience IR's to really hone the sound more precisely to what you want.

 

In a practical sense this has allowed me to fairly quickly combine different IR's to get the sound I want and not have to use an IR block to further refine the sound.


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