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Best Placement For One L3s And Two L3ms


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#1 JeffersteinVS

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 01:16 PM

pretty straight forward. Rock/pop cover band with m20d and 2 l3ms and now one l3s. should i place the one subwoofer dead center if possible or is it ok to put it on one side? 


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#2 RonMarton

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 01:55 PM

As you're about to discover, bassforlife2013...

 

Just two of the many really great things about a system that's been brilliantly engineered on a well designed, integrated and "holistic" basis (or should that be bass-is ?) are

  1. The accurate control of not only the individual and overall dispersion, but also the frequency responses of its components, allow us huge freedom in terms of where we might place that sub. Human hearing is always over-ridden by sight, but never more so than when it comes to bass, which contains no "clues" to where it originates anyway. (Think of a thunderstorm, where the boom shakes your entire "world". If it weren't for the lightning and the higher-pitched "crack" sound, you simply cannot tell if it's ahead of, or behind you, or how far away it really is.) Accordingly, the fact that we may be using corner placement, off to one side, to effectively quadruple our bass output would be our "secret", with the entire crowd remaining convinced that all of the sound is coming from our two L3m enclosures  ...and (almost) conversely... 
  2. The way we can "scale" our rig to the job, hence carrying less, but enjoying it more. Prepared to be amazed at the way that some small and yet surprisingly "boomy" venues actually benefit from leaving the sub back in the van.

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#3 JeffersteinVS

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 07:10 PM

Thanks so much for the response! you should write for a sound magazine :) . So safe to say I can place one l3s under one of the l3ms and it should still have a good mix on the other side of the venue. or possibly find a corner to utilize 


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#4 Digital-sound

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 08:07 PM

At my first use of my L3t's and L3s's, we set one of each on each side of our stage. I had a problem with one sub (all in another thread) and I shut the power bar off on one side. So both speakers were off. Our singer showed up about 30min later and i proceeded to set her up. vocals and guitar. I also have an m20d so now it was only detecting one L3t and one L3s. I still had one side off, and I had forgotten. I was a little more in front of the side that was on, as it was a bit of a strange layout in the room. But bottom line is, it took me a few minutes to even notice it was off. It was a good sound. These speakers have a wide dispersion and just sound great an full. I know I have said it in many other posts, but the word "amazing" is constantly the word that comes to mind. I am so glad I tried these out and purchased them. I just can't believe the sound. As I have also said, ther very well may be some professional audio engineers that can get a great sound out of any speaker with a good eq and processing, but these let pretty much anyone have a great sound. I don't think it is wrong to use the word "automatic" it you have the m20d and the stage source speakers.
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#5 dboomer

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 08:09 PM

There's not really one answer that fits all situations. It depends on how close to the speakers your audience gets.

For listeners some distance away it probably won't make much difference. If you set the sub to one side, anyone close to the sub will get too much bass and those to the other side of the stage (and close will get too little).

If you set the sub in the middle then that will even out for more listeners. And as Ron points out you may want to take advantage of corner placement to get additional output when it is necessary.

#6 RonMarton

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 09:18 PM

Another neat "trick" for some of the unreasonably tiny elevated platforms allocated to musicians (often by large venues that should know better, but let's not go there in this thread) is to "drop" the sub over the band platform's downstage edge, so it's sitting on its side in front of and below the players, on the "mosh pit" floor.

 

(It's left to right "offset" from centre will then, as often as not, be governed by venue architecture, the ruggedness, compactness and well thought-out hardware of a StageSource L3s being an absolute boon in such situations.)

 

This sort of placement will have the effect of increasing our L3s's efficiency by making the floor form part of a "virtual horn" for the sub's drivers, whereby it may be necessary to lower the level of bass to restore the correct balance, but it is nonetheless often a great way to "win back" some precious space on our window ledge, ...er, ...sorry, ...I should say "platform".

 

(As with its direction, bass arriving slightly before or after the remainder of our audio spectrum is simply not an issue, ...whatever so-called "audiophiles" or "purists" may say.)


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#7 litesnsirens

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:50 AM

I used a single L3s for 6 months prior to getting my second. I simply put it on one side and stacked an L3t on top of it (with the L6 poles) and put the other L3t on a speaker stand on the other side.  I did every gig like this and we always had great sound.  Most of the places we play have the dance floor area directly in front of the band, so the people sitting and listening are far enough back that they are going to get a nice even sound. 

 

On the other hand, that could also be contributed to the fact that the rooms we play have typically had us set up facing length-wise so our speaker placement wasn't really that far apart.  If we have only 14' width to set up the band, I don't think sliding the sub 7' one way or another is going make that much difference.  In that situation we put the sub on the side of the stage that most represents the over all middle of the room or in other words the side that makes it farther from a wall, and definitely away from a corner.  This is because of what Ron has pointed out regarding bass acoustics. that can be a great trick with a lesser sub. But these subs are amazing, they don't need any acoustical assistance.  In fact since I got my second I have to be more careful and in some spaces have to either dial the subs a hair below the 12:00 detent setting or make a slight EQ adjustment on the main out of the the M20d.  In bigger spaces it's fine, 12:00 setting on the subs and the system just sorts itself out.


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#8 dboomer

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 10:16 AM

Another neat "trick" for some of the unreasonably tiny elevated platforms allocated to musicians (often by large venues that should know better, but let's not go there in this thread) is to "drop" the sub over the band platform's downstage edge, so it's sitting on its side in front of and below the players, on the "mosh pit" floor.

 

 

Good point to bring up Ron!

 

This isn't just a Line 6 speaker issue but applies to all subwoofers.  What you really want to avoid is ever placing a subwoofer 4 feet up from the floor on a stage or 4 feet from a side wall.  This is because the reflection at 4 feet will bounce back out of phase and cancel the frequency that is right where the punch frequency of a kick drum lives.



#9 Digital-sound

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:01 PM

Good point to bring up Ron!

This isn't just a Line 6 speaker issue but applies to all subwoofers. What you really want to avoid is ever placing a subwoofer 4 feet up from the floor on a stage or 4 feet from a side wall. This is because the reflection at 4 feet will bounce back out of phase and cancel the frequency that is right where the punch frequency of a kick drum lives.

Is 4 feet the number? In some of the NAMM videos and the sweetwater one, they have the subs on the stage sideways with the l3t's on top. Stage looks pretty close to four feet high but I would have to look again. Is 4 feet the wavelength of that frequency? I have never considered this because I had no idea. Very interesting to know. I can only think back to venues where we struggled with a good kick sound and wonder if this may have been part of the problem. I have always made it a practice to keep subs off the stage anyway....haven't played on stages THAT big. But I never think of the distance to the wall.

The stagesource speakers know when they are on a pole or sideways. How about the next generation has an altimeter for height, and maybe a laser for distance from wall?


Thanks for that dboomer.
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#10 RonMarton

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 06:29 PM

...Is 4 feet the wavelength of that frequency?...

 

...How about the next generation has an altimeter for height, and maybe a laser for distance from wall?...

 

:lol:  Never mind the wavelengths and the technology...

 

It's been repeatedly shown that the two finest instruments for determining successful placement for the coherent propagation of waveforms are located on either side of our heads.

 

(In my case, however, it's what's between them that's proven to be highly suspect.)


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#11 dboomer

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:04 PM

It's not written in stone but at 4 feet the cancellation is at 70 Hz. That's about right in the middle of a kick drum. You may tune a little differently so give or take half a foot.

Every distance is going to have some negative effect but getting a solid kick sound usually takes quite a lot so you don't wanna lose it right from the start.

And if you are 4 feet from a side wall and 4 feet up in the air it's a double whammy.




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