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Keyboard Killing An L3t


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#1 gp4leigh

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 04:10 PM

Hi, I've just got home from a gig. Here's what happened.

I set up and sound checked all was brilliant. I came to the stage at 8p.m. played the first song and the L3t intermittently cut out, then completely cut out, leaving me with just the L3m working. Second song was a louder song and the L3t sprang into life and was fine all night.

Exactly the same thing happened on my previous gig, any ideas??

 

Further info that might help; I come left and right out of my keyboard into the L3t mixer 1 & 2 channel, I've used the pad switch, I also use the combine to one channel switch.

 

Thanks for any ideas and help in advance.


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#2 silverhead

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 04:16 PM

Not sure this will help any, but why not connect your mixer keyboard to the L3t rear panel Line In jacks? These inputs are more compatible with a keyboard stereo output than the L3t side panel channel mixer.


Edited by silverhead, 13 September 2013 - 04:17 AM.
fixed wrong word

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#3 RonMarton

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 06:20 PM

...why not connect your keyboard to the L3t rear panel Line In jacks? These inputs are more compatible with a keyboard stereo output than the L3t side panel channel mixer.

 

That's (typically) excellent advice from silverhead, gp4leigh...

 

Excuse me for now prattling on, but I do so in the hope that some may find it helpful to have a little more background, ...in terms of explaining just WHY it's our feeling that this may solve the problem.

 

At first glance, it would seem that silverhead's only talking about the difference in levels and impedances between what emerges from "line" and "mic" outputs, but (unlike less "forgiving" older-generation equipment) StageScape and StageSource "XL combi" inputs have been very carefully crafted by Line 6 to effortlessly accommodate all of that, albeit with the occasional use of that "pad switch" for higher output devices, ...exactly as you've done.

 

So what else may be going on ...and why ?

 

(I thought you'd never ask.)

 

First off, the "key" to our "diagnostic thinking".

 

(Are we all sitting comfortably. Good. Uncle Ron will now tell us a story.) 

 

The digitally connected (L6 Link) part of our system (the L3m) was only subject to encoded information that already had any "rough edges" (that may have bedevilled our original analog inputs) "knocked off" by the very process of those input signals having been "encoded" into L6 Link data...

 

...So it kept working ...and whatever the problem is, (or was) that behaviour indicates to us that it almost certainly only exists (or existed) in "The Land Of Analog", a misty and magical kingdom of (often impenetrable) fog and confusion.

 

Now, for the rest.

 

As we all know, "keyboards" are legendary beasts that have long been the subjects of myths and epics, but one of the very few well-documented, demonstrable and scientifically proven FACTS about them is that many have the power to emit sounds of almost supernatural dimensions in parts of the spectrum that we mere humans cannot even hear.

 

I'm talking about both sub and supersonic oscillation, which can be present at a level that's high enough easily "trip" a system's "self protection" circuitry even though the offending "preset" or "voice" from the keyboard was only perceived to be at a "low" level.

 

It's a fair bet, then, that when our...

 

...Second song was a louder song and the L3t sprang into life and was fine all night...

 

...a different "preset" or "voice" was used, ...one which did NOT contain the offending sub or supersonic component that we're suspecting.

 

Why might the "Line" input/s be any better ?

 

(Thanks for asking.)

 

The "XL combi" inputs that may be at the heart of this issue are specifically engineered to accept the entire bandwidth of whatever may come from the very finest microphones, from the lowest harmonics of kick drum and double bass all the way up to the highest, such as those that may emanate from the "ting" of a triangle or bell tree.

 

"Line" inputs, however, are nearly always configured to pass ONLY the stuff we humans can actually hear, on the basis that any harmonic "degradation" will have been accounted for in whatever "sampling" or "mixing" process that occurred prior to them being used.

 

So no sub or supersonic "demons" from them.

 

(And they all lived happily ever after. ...Aah, ...we hope. )  :)  


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#4 dboomer

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 08:12 PM

Could be any of a bunch of things ... Bad cables, bad output from your mixer, bad wall voltage or maybe bad hardware in the speaker. You have to rule out as many of these as you can.

#5 RonMarton

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 11:08 PM

Could be any of a bunch of things ... Bad cables, bad output from your mixer, bad wall voltage or maybe bad hardware in the speaker. You have to rule out as many of these as you can.

 

In consideration of which I'd humbly submit my opinion that, (with the ever-so-slightly possible exception of "bad hardware in the speaker") the odds I'd give for any or all of the above (whether each on their own or acting in concert) actually behaving like this...

 

...Second song was a louder song and the L3t sprang into life and was fine all night...   [Ron M's emphasis]

 

...having somehow "magically" reset itself (or themselves) from...

 

[Ron M's emphasis]   ...Exactly the same thing [which] happened on my previous gig... 

 

...are only slightly less than those I'd offer for the system in question being struck by lightning while this post is being read.

 

In support of the high odds I've ascribed, I would also suggest consideration be given to the high probability that many of the items in question were "moved around" and/or were actually different for each of those two gigs.


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#6 silverhead

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 04:13 AM

...At first glance, it would seem that silverhead's only talking about the difference in levels and impedances between what emerges from "line" and "mic" outputs...

 

Oh yeah, Ron - of course I thought it was assumed that everyone knows about the rest of your 'story'! :lol:

 

But seriously - I actually was only talking about the above because I had no idea about the rest. Thanks for your kind attribution about the extent of my knowledge, but in this area I can't even hold a candle to you. As usual I have learned more by reading your posts.

 

Thanks for being here.


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#7 gp4leigh

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 11:24 PM

Hi, thanks for your response. The last few gigs I tried using the line inputs at the back of the speakers.

Right out of keyboard to L3t.

Left out of keyboard to l3m.

So far no cutting out, so it seems this is the correct way to connect a Ketron Audya keyboard directly to the Line 6 speakers, of course it may just be coincidence that the problem didn't occur on recent gigs.

Maybe only time will tell?

 

Thanks to all.


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#8 RonMarton

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 11:42 PM

Ah, hah !  :)

 

A "spacial stereo" arrangement. Interesting.

 

...So far no cutting out, ...of course it may just be coincidence that the problem didn't occur on recent gigs.

Maybe only time will tell?

 

I've gotta say I'm fairly confident you'll now be fine, in the light of several NON-coincidences (over decades) of

  1. Blown tweeters,
  2. Blown woofers and
  3. Various amplifiers and systems having been reduced to smelly, smoking wrecks...

...by keyboards that both "sounded fine" and had "worked well" for years into "standard" guitar amps and the like.

 

Fine to the ears, but actually looking at the output waveforms from some of their "voices" was a very sobering experience.

 

...Um, ...aah, ...ahem, ...well, ...I lied.

 

Actually it wasn't...

 

It drove me to drink. (That's my story ...and I'm sticking to it.)


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