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Getting the most authentic acoustic model sounds

variax acoustic models

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#1 Mrkgtr49

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 02:24 PM

A while back I read something here about how to make.the acoustic models sound more realistic. It talked about the piezo pickups, using 11's and playing technique. I can't seem to find that information again.
Does anyone have a link to it?

Thanks!
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#2 cruisinon2

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 02:38 PM

No link handy, but a sharp pick (think Jazz III) and a light touch (probably a lot lighter than most are accustomed to), especially when strumming chords goes a long way towards getting a convincing acoustic tone.... but the biggest piece of the puzzle is running through some sort of FRFR speaker solution. If you're trying to coax a good acoustic sound out of a guitar cabinet, just give up now before you go insane. It's a losing battle. What makes an acoustic sound like what it is, are frequencies that guitar cabinets simply can't produce. End of story. Run, and run quickly. ;)

As for the 11's, I play those anyway. The first thing I did when I unboxed my JTV was rip the 10's off before I played a single note. Couldn't swear that the heavier gauge makes it any better or worse, as it's all I've used.
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#3 amsdenj

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 03:54 PM

The Variax piezo pickups are very sensitive to pick attack, more so than magnetic pickups. So the choice of pick composition, thickness, point shape, and how hard you pick can make a lot of difference with Variax models. For acoustic, you might find lighter, rounder picks will give a more realistic tone. The lighter pick helps keep the pick attack a bit more natural for acoustic. The rounder pick shape keeps things from getting overly bright and unpleasant.

Re the Jazz III, to me that's too sharp and stiff and doesn't create a warm acoustic tone. I like VPicks, Tradition Light. Also consider turning picks on their side to get a different tone.

But I like pretty warm acoustic tones. I also often use some cut at around 900Hz for Variax acoustic models, just to warm them up a bit more.

Its a challenge to get good acoustic tones from light strings. I have a Variax Acoustic 700 that has acoustic guitar strings, and of course different models. Even though its older generation models, I like it quite a bit and use it exclusively as my goto acoustic guitar for live gigging. I have less success with my Variax JVT-69S, but its ok of accasional acoustic sounds in an overall band setting. I wouldn't try to do any close intimate acoustic guitar/vocal performances with it though. The 700 is ok for this, not great, but reliable and predictable.
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#4 cruisinon2

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:00 PM

Re the Jazz III, to me that's too sharp and stiff and doesn't create a warm acoustic tone. I like VPicks, Tradition Light. Also consider turning picks on their side to get a different tone.


Well it doesn't have to be that exact one, obviously...I dunno, rounder picks don't cut it all for me for the acoustic stuff. Just sounds dead.

To The OP...There you have it. Two polar opposite recommendations. The lesson here is that experimentation is the only way to find what you're after with these things. They're a bit quirky, and what works for one guy will be a disaster for the next.
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#5 BINGEWOOD

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:27 PM

I think the thin picks help with the acoustics.


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#6 ginster

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 01:53 AM

Soft pick, strumming very soft and carefully - playing through sort of powered monitor or mixer not guitar amp - that helped me.


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#7 Rewolf48

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:31 AM

Demo:

 

Thread: http://line6.com/sup...coustic-sounds/

 

Points to Line 6 Blog on the subject: http://blog.line6.com/2013/2061/


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#8 cruisinon2

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:42 AM

Lol...and it gets worse. So there is absolutely no consensus at all as far as pick choice. Awesome! ;)

To sum up: If it works, use it. Toothpick, q-tip, chunks of garden mulch, shards of broken glass...
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#9 Guitarkyller

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 02:35 PM

Go buy a real, good acoustic, and learn how to play it.
No nonsense required..................................
as a bonus, you get to play it as hard as you want.

Play softly................Use a flaccid pick.......Play very carefully........Psssshizal !

That's EVERYTHING playing an acoustic isn't about !

How about it being just plainly mediocre sounding at best ?






Vote Away...I couldn't care less !!
B)
I only have 6 yrs of classical guitar training/with international studies,and a Masters Degree,
but you must know more than I do .
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#10 ginster

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:15 AM

Go buy a real, good acoustic, and learn how to play it.
No nonsense required..................................
as a bonus, you get to play it as hard as you want.

play softly................use a flaccid pick.......Psssshizal !

how about just plain mediocre sound ?



 

 

                                                                                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                                                                                                            Vote Away

Not very helpful!


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#11 cruisinon2

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 04:23 AM

Not very helpful!


That's OK. I'm fairly certain he wasn't trying to be...;)
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#12 Elexorien

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:06 AM

My issue is what amp to simulate via the POD HD500 for the acoustic models?


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JTV-59 > Pod HD500 > DT25 Stack 


#13 silverhead

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:50 AM

Try using no guitar amp. Use the Vintage Preamp - It is in the Preamp+EQ section of the FX. Here's a snip from the manual:

 

This Model is a vintage-voiced, mono tube mic preamp based on* the Requisite® Y7 vintage Tube Mic Preamp, excellent for use with your Mic source input, Variax acoustic guitar models, or even in conjunction with Bass or Guitar Amps, anywhere in the signal path, to provide some nice tube warmth.


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#14 cruisinon2

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:04 AM

My issue is what amp to simulate via the POD HD500 for the acoustic models?

None...you don't need it. Most if the time it'll just make things worse. If you were plugging in an actual acoustic, or micing one without a piezo pickup, you'd be going straight to the PA or recording console.

A little reverb and perhaps some EQ is generally all you need. Keep it simple.
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#15 Rewolf48

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 03:17 AM

I also add subtle studio compression just to help balance levels and help prevent distortion if strumming hard


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#16 Guitarkyller

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 11:45 AM

Go buy a real, good acoustic, and learn how to play it.
No nonsense required..................................
as a bonus, you get to play it as hard as you want.

Play softly................Use a flaccid pick.......Play very carefully........Psssshizal !

That's EVERYTHING playing an acoustic isn't about !

How about it being just plainly mediocre sounding at best ?






Vote Away...I couldn't care less !!
B)
I only have 6 yrs of classical guitar training/with international studies,and a Masters Degree,
but you must know more than I do .

 

 If you train on an  real acoustic, and develop tone and technique,

it will do more for your playing than all the Gizmo effects in the world combined.

When playing one, it's all up to you how one sounds...no crutches allowed..no shortcuts either.

Modeling an acoustic on a solid body electric eliminates most of the things that you can do with one.

Playing an accompanying finger percussion line is just one example.

Playing with a 3 finger-pick  aggressive attack style is another.

Palm muting, Staccato picking, Pizzicato, and classical tunings and the JTV just falls apart.

The "Virtual Capo" is one of the biggest jokes that I've ever had the displeasure to hear.

Strum softly and carefully and use a soft pick and change the way you learned to play

isn't a realistic answer, in any corner that music is actually taught.

However, if you think another pathetic"Workaround" solution will make you sound better,

or pass, as even a beginning to play, OR sound like a real acoustic......Then have at it.


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#17 Smashcraaft

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 11:46 AM

Strumming with my fingers instead of a plek offers the best tone in my opinion.
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FRFR-Setup: Variax JTV59 / 600 > POD HD500x / POD HD500 > Yamaha DBR12 / Superlux SF12A
One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#18 cruisinon2

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 03:59 PM

Let's have a "most irritating font" contest...
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#19 Guitarkyller

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 06:09 PM

Let's have a "most irritating font" contest...

 

 Good thing they don't have cursive script ...you'd have to hire somebody with an H1-B Work Visa !

Just KIDDING FOLKS !! Cruz can handle it.

 

One thing to add to my prior post.                                   I know ya'll can't wait....RIGHT ?

 

When you play an acoustic, either unplugged, mic'd up, or with active pick-ups,

you have learned to listen to the instrument as you play. You hear it loud and clear. It's a presence in your lap.The disconnect here is that you hear a dead stick electric 

in your hands and a Pa'd acoustic through the speakers or amp. I couldn't ever quite get used to it. It's even worse if you try to use the Alt Tuning Models as you notice the actual differences between the string played and the notes heard. I think it is the most magnified when trying to use the Acoustic models. If you use a loud monitor or are playing in a loud band setting, you may not hear it so readily though. I seldom use a monitor as I like to play with "extragusto magnifico" and have no trouble hearing the instrument. In a more quiet setting the sound of the guitar itself is a very important part of your complete overall sound. Trust me, you CAN hear it.

 When you try to de-tune the actual guitar,using a Standard Tuning selected,  I also believe that the piezo's do not like the reduction in string tension and the intonation goes south.

However if all you want is to be able to strum a little intro, or play softly and carefully and that makes you happy, then I think that's great too.

Not everybody expects or needs the same things.

I hope everyone can figure out what I'm trying to say.  THERE ARE LIMITS AS TO WHAT ONE CAN EXPECT FROM THIS CURRENT TECHNOLOGY .

However, it isn't an acoustic guitar in any way, shape, or form.  It is what it is....period.

 

That's all I'm  sayin'  ....... Nothin' more, Nothin' less.

 

You can have a good day or a bad day.....that's up to you to pick.

Choose wisely..............

 

Later,

         Shawn


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#20 cbeattyjr

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:32 AM

I get very good comments when I play my JTV-59 (Martin setting) straight into the PA using only a direct box.  I'm talking about songwriter nights where other guys play high-end Martins into Shure SM-57 mics.  I've tried various HD-500 settings of compression and EQ and can't beat the direct sound.

 

Two things to think about:

 

1.  I use .011 gauge strings with a wound G.

2.  I play with my fingers and thumb.


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#21 Smashcraaft

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 06:08 AM

Two things to think about:
 
1.  I use .011 gauge strings with a wound G.
2.  I play with my fingers and thumb.

Glad it works for you.
2. is what I observed too. Variax acoustics don't really likes plek-strumming.
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One pedal to rule them all, One pedal to find them.One pedal to bring them all and in the darkness bind 'em.

#22 cbeattyjr

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 06:36 AM

Glad it works for you.
2. is what I observed too. Variax acoustics don't really likes plek-strumming.

Actually, I think all piezo-equipped acoustic guitars sound better played finger style.


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