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On To My 4th Jtv No Luck So Far - Distortion

distortion alt tunings

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#21 donmr

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:20 AM

sounds ok if I pick lightly but it sounds ok if I pick hard too but ONLY in standard tuning (as you can hear in the sound file I posted) 


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#22 psarkissian

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:04 AM

Hello donmr,

 

Four of them,...

Hi, I'm the JTV tech at Line 6,....

 

- What are you playing the JTV-69 through?

 

- Using the 1/4" TRS output using the Battery, or the RJ45 Variax output?

 

- If you're using the Variax output, what device are you sending it through?

 

- Specifically which Models are doing this?

 

- Which Alt Tune setting (if any) are you using when this happens?

 

- Have you done any updates of the Flash using Monkey? If so, are you using the JTV Interface to do that? Are you bringing over older saved Models through Workbench, after an update?

 

-If you change the gauge when you change the strings, you'll need to have the set-up of the guitar checked and (if needed) adjusted by your local  guitar tech.

 

 

This will allow me or my colleagues to reproduce the conditions to better narrow all this down.

Thanks.


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#23 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:20 AM

I'm glad psarkissian is looking into this.  It would be good to get returned JTV's to the right folks so that Line6 can figure out what kind of problems are showing up and try to make sure that they do not continue to happen. 


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#24 Geech

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:37 AM

just an FYI I'm sure you are aware of. But you cant attack the guitar like an acoustic while playing acoustic models. You really have to change some of your playing habits. or at least I did. If I bang my JTV like I would an acoustic, it sounds terrible.

 

If it doesn't help you it might help someone else

 

 

Hope you get it figured out.


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#25 GearFarm

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:55 AM

I just tried to recreate the sound donmr had in his wav with my 69-S...I get it too.

Acoustic model with altered tuning...but I had to pick much harder than I would normally pick, and I don't think I would ever pick that hard...but it does do it.

Seems to do it with any acoustic model and any alt tuning, but it seems much worse on the A and G strings...in fact I can't recreate it on the low E or D.

I'm using the 1/4 inch output into an amp.

Since he's gone through 4 guitars I'd say it's a flaw in the design.

Not a deal breaker for me but I can see how some would be disappointed..


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#26 psarkissian

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:44 AM

Don't know if it's a design problem,.... I haven't seen this problem before in all the units I've serviced, and that's quite a few. That's why I was asking about the set-up, rule that out first. Four a in a row verses all the units out, is outside statistical possibilities. With all the units, donmr is the common one here. Could be a number of things, now it's a matter of narrowing it down.

 

***Also,... have you done any updates of the Flash using Monkey? If so, are you using the JTV Interface to do that?

 

And I tend to stick to stock gauges of strings, 10 to 46. If you change the gauge when you change the strings, you'll need to have the set-up of the guitar checked and (if needed) adjusted by your local guitar tech.


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#27 donmr

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:36 PM

Hello donmr,

 

Four of them,...

Hi, I'm the JTV tech at Line 6,....

 

- What are you playing the JTV-69 through?

 

- Using the 1/4" TRS output using the Battery, or the RJ45 Variax output?

 

- If you're using the Variax output, what device are you sending it through?

 

- Specifically which Models are doing this?

 

- Which Alt Tune setting (if any) are you using when this happens?

 

- Have you done any updates of the Flash using Monkey? If so, are you using the JTV Interface to do that? Are you bringing over older saved Models through Workbench, after an update?

 

-If you change the gauge when you change the strings, you'll need to have the set-up of the guitar checked and (if needed) adjusted by your local  guitar tech.

 

 

This will allow me or my colleagues to reproduce the conditions to better narrow all this down.

Thanks.

Thanks for your reply!

 

I'm playing the JTV 69 through a DI when using the jack output and a Pod HD 500 (new tone setting i.e. nothing in the chain) when using the Variax output

Problem is the same using Jack or VARIAX outputs.

 

ALL models seem to do this

 

ALL alt tunings seem to do it, some to varying degrees but definitely audible. STANDARD tuning seems ok.

 

I have re flashed the firmware on all instruments using the supplied USB JTV interface. I have tried reverting to all previous available firmware versions accessible via Line 6 Monkey.

 

I AM a guitar tech (I used to build and repair guitars years ago) so I'm reasonably competent with setting up a guitar for standard D'Addario EXL 140 10-52 gauge strings which I've been using for decades (along with thousands of other guitarists)


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#28 donmr

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:42 PM

just an FYI I'm sure you are aware of. But you cant attack the guitar like an acoustic while playing acoustic models. You really have to change some of your playing habits. or at least I did. If I bang my JTV like I would an acoustic, it sounds terrible.

 

If it doesn't help you it might help someone else

 

 

Hope you get it figured out.

Thanks for your reply,

Well I would classify myself as definitely NOT a super hard picker or strummer in the scheme of things and, it appears I can play how I like in standard tuning, just not in Alt tunings! I am more than happy to upload more audio files illustratuing how this effects a couple of real world situations if anyone is interested.


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#29 donmr

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:52 PM

Don't know if it's a design problem,.... I haven't seen this problem before in all the units I've serviced, and that's quite a few. That's why I was asking about the set-up, rule that out first. Four a in a row verses all the units out, is outside statistical possibilities. With all the units, donmr is the common one here. Could be a number of things, now it's a matter of narrowing it down.

 

***Also,... have you done any updates of the Flash using Monkey? If so, are you using the JTV Interface to do that?

 

And I tend to stick to stock gauges of strings, 10 to 46. If you change the gauge when you change the strings, you'll need to have the set-up of the guitar checked and (if needed) adjusted by your local guitar tech.

To be 100% transparent It definitely happened here in Sydney with Gold JTV 59p, White JTV 69s and the most recent Blue JTV 69, all supplied by the local Line 6 importer (who has been most accomodating) and my friend in Los Angeles tried out my Black JTV 69 (which was in storage there) and says he found the same issue however I have not had sound files uploaded from this particular guitar so probably 95% sure this one does it too.

I agree that 4 is a LOT of guitars to have this problem that's why I (like yourself) suspect some kind of pilot error, but if it is I am stumped as to what I might be doing wrong. I really hope it IS something I'm doing but I'm beginning to doubt it.


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#30 psarkissian

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:18 PM

I thought it might be an HD500,... I was wondering why the wave-file sounded like there was a little digital clipping,...

 

 

-Check the Input Impedance Selector on the Edit Page, select a less noisy Impedance Setting.

 

- Check your Volume Pedal settings in the patches you're using, bring them down to about 70-80%, then bring up gradual until you hear some audio break-up, then dial it back a smidgeon.

 

 

I've come across this a few times, just a matter of monitoring the signal path amplitude levels. There are a few places where over-driving or clipping a signal in HD500 can be done, so monitor your level throughout the signal path.

 


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#31 donmr

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:43 PM

I thought it might be an HD500,... I was wondering why the wave-file sounded like there was a little digital clipping,...

 

 

-Check the Input Impedance Selector on the Edit Page, select a less noisy Impedance Setting.

 

- Check your Volume Pedal settings in the patches you're using, bring them down to about 70-80%, then bring up gradual until you hear some audio break-up, then dial it back a smidgeon.

 

 

I've come across this a few times, just a matter of monitoring the signal path amplitude levels. There are a few places where over-driving or clipping a signal in HD500 can be done, so monitor your level throughout the signal path.

Thanks for your reply,

I will have a tweak with those settings but that does not explain why it happens using the guitar jack output as well as the Variax output. If you like i can upload another wave file just using the Jack out and you can see the waveform of the mags, then the model in standard tuning then the model with alt tuning and you will notice the level increases with each setting. The model guitars are hotter when an Alt tuning is selected compared to standard tuning. I think it does sound like some kind of digital clipping however I don't think it is in the POD HD 500 as I have tested it with hotter guitars without issue. I think it's most likely happening within the guitar electronics somewhere considering it happens just using a DI without any POD/AMP/Pedal etc.


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#32 GearFarm

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:55 PM

Like I said in my previous post, I have a 69-S and I can get the same sounds. I don't have an HD500 so it has nothing to do with that.

It would be interesting for others to try to recreate the sound as well.

I never would have heard the sound if not for donmr's post as I don't pluck those acoustic models that hard.

Donmr, I'm wondering if like me, you notice the the distortion only on the A and G strings?


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#33 donmr

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:01 PM

Like I said in my previous post, I have a 69-S and I can get the same sounds. I don't have an HD500 so it has nothing to do with that.

It would be interesting for others to try to recreate the sound as well.

I never would have heard the sound if not for donmr's post as I don't pluck those acoustic models that hard.

Donmr, I'm wondering if like me, you notice the the distortion only on the A and G strings?

Hi GearFarm, I've noticed this distortion on E, A, D and G strings but not the B and high E. Mostly on the E, A and D strings but on occasion the G as well. And yes your right that it has nothing to do with the HD500 but that is the only way I can test the VARIAX output of the guitar which exhibits the same problems as the analog jack output.


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#34 hurghanico

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:14 PM

IMO it's certainly an issue that has to do with the internal JTV software, if it was a problem of piezos and string gauges that kind of clipping there would be also in standard tuning .. it seems more than logical

 

There is another recent thread where they talk about different issues but still related to alt tunings

 

so my main suspicion is that the part of the software that manages the alt tunings has a bug that should be fixed..


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#35 donmr

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:44 PM

Yes it looks very much like an internal problem alt tunings. The waveform would certainly suggest that after having a good look at it in RX.
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#36 hurghanico

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:48 PM

I don't know if you did it already, but you should open a support ticket

http://line6.com/support/tickets/


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#37 donmr

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:18 PM

I don't know if you did it already, but you should open a support ticket

http://line6.com/support/tickets/

yep did that last night


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#38 spmartin

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:22 PM

yep did that last night

donmr,

Not sure if you have checked out this thread about my problem with Ghost Notes in Alt. Tuning mode. Quite a good thread, and it may give you some insight into your problem. Luckily I am on my first JTV-69, and yesterday I sent it back to the retailer I purchased it from. My tech support person at Line 6, Hugo, determined that mine was a hardware problem. Rest assured - the techs at Line 6 know about the problem. From reading your posts, I suspect yours is related to the problem I was having. Do not keep a guitar that is not perfect. After 4 guitars, Line 6 should fly to to Los Angeles and let you pick out any guitar you want (maybe an American built Variax!). And, they should make sure it's perfect before you fly home with it.

Here is the link to the thread:  http://line6.com/sup...ax-ghost-notes/


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#39 donmr

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:38 PM

donmr,

Not sure if you have checked out this thread about my problem with Ghost Notes in Alt. Tuning mode. Quite a good thread, and it may give you some insight into your problem. Luckily I am on my first JTV-69, and yesterday I sent it back to the retailer I purchased it from. My tech support person at Line 6, Hugo, determined that mine was a hardware problem. Rest assured - the techs at Line 6 know about the problem. From reading your posts, I suspect yours is related to the problem I was having. Do not keep a guitar that is not perfect. After 4 guitars, Line 6 should fly to to Los Angeles and let you pick out any guitar you want (maybe an American built Variax!). And, they should make sure it's perfect before you fly home with it.

Here is the link to the thread:  http://line6.com/sup...ax-ghost-notes/

I would not be at all surprised if this problem is directly related to the one I'm having. Definitely in the same ballpark I'd say.


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#40 donmr

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 05:53 AM

the thread seems to have gone cold but the problem remains. As stated in my first post, i really want this to work but...

Anyone else care to select a model guitar (say an acoustic model), select alternative tuning (say half tone down) pick or strum firmly... any distortion?

Then try standard tuning...any change in output level between standard tuning and alternate tunings?


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