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On To My 4th Jtv No Luck So Far - Distortion

distortion alt tunings

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#41 arislaf

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:29 AM

Nothing at all.Tried with my jtv 69s on acoustic, with dadgad tuning and heavy, really heavy struming. Nothing except the fret buzz.


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#42 psarkissian

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:34 AM

Fret buzz is a sign of a set-up adjustment such as relief or string action.

 

And Don,... I see in the support ticket that Hugo is on the case,... good.

We'll get it figured out.

 


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#43 arislaf

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:52 AM

Thanks psarkissian for the advice.No problem at all :)


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#44 GearFarm

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:39 AM

In my experience, the proper technique to get the "thwack" sound is not while strumming.

I can't get it by strumming chords.

You have to do one string at a time and pick really hard...harder than you normally would.

Make sure you are in an alt tuning as standard doesn't produce the sound.


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#45 psarkissian

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 11:36 AM

True,... with the more resonant Models and Alt Tunings,... good technique and good execution is part of it.

Nice thing about some of these Models is that they don't let me getaway with anything. Especially with these

delay and reverb patches on the X3 Live at my bench. It forces me to not be sloppy with my technique and execution,

or I'll hear it in a big way.

 


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#46 donmr

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 04:04 PM

As far as playing too hard is concerned, SRV's playing style would make me look like a limp wristed pansy, as would many other guitarists. Bad technique?

Works fine in standard tunings so unfortunately it's not a problem of poor technique. Why is the output from the modelled instruments higher in Alt tunings than in standard tunings? It seems to be this extra level causing some kind of digital clipping. This problem has occurred in several instruments and was eminently repeatable and demonstrable in all of them. Three of these were from the Australian distributor so I had my friend get one out of storage in LA to see if he could reproduce the problem and he could. That makes it unlikely to be a "bad batch" sent to Australia (talking guitars here, not convicts! ;) Having said all that, I am very gratified with the way the local distributor has tried to help out and encouraged that the person handling my support ticket is investigating! I REALLY want this to work!!

Don


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#47 GearFarm

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 01:49 PM

Hey donmr,

Just wondering if you've tried a fw rollback to see if the distortion is gone...?


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#48 GearFarm

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 12:11 PM

Never mind...I reverted back to 1.9 and the thwack sounds are still there.

I have discovered that I can get the same weird sounds on any model that is in an alt tuning, not just the acoustic.

And only on the A and G strings.

Like I said before, I have to drasticly alter my playing style get get it to "thwack", so I don't think this is really a problem for me.

But having said that, I wouldn't think this is how it should work.


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#49 donmr

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 07:40 PM

Yep, tried every available firmware and tried various orders of installation. As you experience problems on a different combination of strings (A,G) to me (E,A,D) it would appear to be a somewhat varying problem in different instruments. My latest jtv is going back to the distributor tomorrow and I will demonstrate the problem to them again.
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#50 rmaginnis

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 06:41 AM

Just another thought to the arsenal of input already stated , but maybe your lower strings are a little too low and as a result you are getting some fret noise?


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#51 psarkissian

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 08:21 AM

Things to consider with fret buzz---

 

Set-up,... neck relief and string action are things that relate to fret buzz.

Need a guitar tech for that.

 

Also,... have him check the nut slots at the headstock, and make sure the slots have

been de-burred, a burr in a slot will give the same sound like fret buzz. I see that all too often,

and mistaken for fret buzz.

 

Have the guitar tech check the retainer nuts on the tuning machines, that they're properly snug.

Don't do this yourself, have a tech do it, over torquing is bad. As well as all the mechanicals from

tail piece to tuning machines.

 

 


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#52 GearFarm

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:14 AM

Just another thought to the arsenal of input already stated , but maybe your lower strings are a little too low and as a result you are getting some fret noise?

Don't forget this important detail...it only occurs when switched to an alt tuning.


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#53 psarkissian

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:39 AM

Are these older patches saved from v1.71 to v1.90 from Workbench?

There may be a patch format compatibility glitch. I'm told that a patch or two

might have distortion from that. Haven't had one come across my bench yet.

 

If it's Howling and whistling, the JTV probably needs it's intonation dialed in closer.

If it's a warbling sort of buzz, the magnetic pick-up height may need adjusting.

The Magnetic field can pull on the string causing buzz and warbly distortions.

 

 

-psarkissian

 


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#54 GearFarm

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:34 AM

I got my JT 69-S from Sweetwater with the HD upgrade installed, so no older patches involved.

Its a distortion that only presents itself when an alternate tuning is used.

That means it plays fine with no howling, whistling, warbling, buzz or distortion until the alt tuning is chosen.

Then it is only present when a string is picked with force.

Please listen to the audio example in post #5.


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#55 psarkissian

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:49 PM

Thanks, I remember this audio file. Hear what you mean, definitely odd. I'll have to see if I can reproduce it here.


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#56 donmr

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:49 PM

Yes, as gearfarm just stated, this problem has nothing at all to do with fret buzz or any other mechanical aspect of the guitar setup. It is most definitely something happening within the digital electronics of the instrument as IT ONLY HAPPENS IN ALT TUNINGS!! After listening to the audio example I uploaded a while back, perhaps you could try recording some examples where you compare the output of the alt tuning vs standard tuning of various modeled instruments. It seems the increased output of the alt tunings is overloading some part if the D/A chain. (Note: performance of the mag pickups has never been an issue, nor have the modeled instruments in standard tuning).
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#57 psarkissian

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 11:16 AM


I AM a guitar tech (I used to build and repair guitars years ago) so I'm reasonably competent with setting up a guitar for standard D'Addario EXL 140 10-52 gauge strings which I've been using for decades (along with thousands of other guitarists)


I figured, you sound like you know guitars,... I too have built and repaired many a guitar in the last (almost) four decades. The one thing I've found servicing and playing JTV's is that,.... these aren't our father's Gibson Arch-top Electric Guitars anymore (I know, I own Gibson Archtop and three JTV's). It's not the kitty-cat, it's a Tiger,... so it has to be stroked and cuddled a little differently than the usual cat.

Maybe thousands of other guitarist use what they use,... you own a JTV, you've stepped up into another class of guitar and guitar playing. Even with my decades of experience working on and playing guitars,... even for me there was a slight learning curve, but only a slight curve. I've learned how to cuddle under the chin of this Tiger.


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#58 donmr

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 04:43 AM

For anyone interested in this thread, Line 6 are still working on figuring it out at this stage. My most recent JTV69 has gone back to the distributor and they are working with Line in the US. I really hope they can solve this one!


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#59 Geech

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 09:22 AM

My guess is the 5th and 6th will do the same thing...


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#60 donmr

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 04:04 PM

Thanks for that insight Geech. Thankfully Line 6 are being good enough to indulge me by taking this investigation seriously. Pilot error is of course the first thing I suspected however, after having half a dozen other pro guitarists check it out, all of whom were able to get the guitar to distort in the same way using alt tunings without any effort, there is a half decent chance it's not just me.


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