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L3S is rubbish ? not wokring properly for ROCK band

stagecource l3s sub

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#1 ebbwbob

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 03:59 AM

Ok really annoyed ..

 

I've invested thousands in line 6 Live sound, so the mixer and L3T tops etc. all have been great and the 6 support has been excellent but ..

 

Needed a Sub to go with it so bought a L3S second hand as brand new they are very very expensive. . and im so glad I didn't get this brand new the sub is REALLY under powered,  the drivers are a pair of 250 watt and no where near the 1200 watt advertised.!!!!!! the sound is muddy and weak see below ..

 

The issue I experienced was when I turn up passed 12 o'clock I'm getting all kinds of ugly distortion and everything just shakes rumbles .. because I don't have another to compare too I assumed this is how they sound , but had a VERY experienced speaker engineer/ technician take a look at it out and he sent me the following report , I need to know if anyone has had the same issue or if this is normal operation  ???????????? 

 

 

"

This Line 6 L3s was presented to us for repair/inspection along with the complaint of poor output levels and poor Bass performance.
Upon inspection, the lower bass driver in enclosure exhibited signs of mild breakup. No physical damage was visible, however, an AC impedance measurement yielded a possible shorted turn at an impedance of 2.13ohms @1khz. A driver replacement was recommended, but we feel this would not significantly improve matters in terms of increased bass levels.
The amplifier modules were then tested at 200hz applied to the rear input panel and the loudspeaker outputs were terminated into a precision 4-ohm dummy load.
Both modules produced an output of 21 volts RMS each which equates to 110.25 watts RMS per module into each 4-ohm driver @200hz.
At this time the internal limiter came into operation and no further increase in output was possible. Due to the fact, there are no alignment procedures in the service manual,
We were unable to confirm if this very conservative amount of limiting is implimentd to protect the drivers and amplifier modules, and is indeed correct or if an issue exists.
However, It is also interesting to note in the published specifications Line 6 only lists a "peak" output power of 622w per amplifier and not a continuous RMS output.

We are of the opinion this figure is somewhat meaningless In a real world environment and precludes us from quantifying any measurements.

Given that the Hypex amplifier modules used in this product are only rated at 250w RMS And the drivers are rated at 350w RMS coupled with the limited amount of specifications and calibration data available to us,

We are of the opinion this unit is functioning within the manufacturer's designed criteria.   

"

 

over to you guys have I just wasted £800 or can something be done ??? 

 


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#2 silverhead

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 04:28 AM

I haven't experienced this issue with my setup of M20d, L3t, and L3s. It's been used many times with rock bands in both indoor and outdoor environments. Since I never had any issues I haven't subjected it to the kind of testing you describe here so I can't say whether the same tests on my L3s would yield the same result.

A possible next step for you might be to rent an L3s for a day and compare performance. It's possible your used unit might be faulty.
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#3 ebbwbob

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 05:10 AM

that's the thing I've had it professionally checked out .. and they cant see anything wrong with it , but its clearly has an issue. has any one else seen anything like this ?


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#4 slydawg65

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 02:39 AM

i have a pair of L3s subs and there is plenty of punch in mine, in fact, sometimes too much. I would do sound for gigs of around 200 people with my stagesource rig and there is a great kick out of the subs. Buying used gear can be a bargain but it can also be a curse..


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#5 JamzOR

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:24 PM

Either a damaged piece of gear, or bad settings on the L3s itself, or in your StageScape mixer.

I use 1 or 2 subs depending on the size of the space and mine thumps either way.


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#6 JamzOR

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:25 PM

Also, don't forget to update your speaker firmware! I had issues when I was running mixed versions.


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#7 darrenhowell

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 10:27 PM

Where are you based? I have an L3 sub that if you are anywhere close to the  West Midlands you could borrow to try.  I'll be quite honest I bought it and have never used it as I have been mixing acoustic acts and my L3 tops have been more than up to that task.  To be fair I haven't seen any complaints about the subs being under  powered.powered.


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#8 ArneLine6

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 10:12 AM

Did you connect the sub to the other stage source speakers using the Line 6 Link connection? Depending on goals it could help to change the crossover setting on the back. The higher the crossover is set, the more low end energy is send to the subs instead of the L3 tops.


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#9 psarkissian

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 04:18 PM

Has it been previously serviced?

If so, where at?

If it was previously serviced, were all of the gaskets and seals installed prior to closing up the unit?

Correctly torqued down screws upon closing up the unit?


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#10 rimrocked

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 08:25 AM

I have the entire Stagecape/Stagesource system and it is second to none. I play to crowds of several hundred to several thousand and have never had a lack of bass issue.

 

Are you using the M20d mixer? Are you using the L6Link for the L3's? Are you using AES 110 digital rated runs under 50'? What instruments are you using? Are the drums acoustic or digital? If acoustic how and which mic are you using? If digital, who's product and what kit are you using? Type of bass, any effects, filters etc? What settings are you using on the L3 mains? What specific live bass sound are you trying to reproduce? If you give us more details regarding the equipment you are using and the instruments being played, we may be able to help maximize your SPL to your liking.

 

Arguing over wattage is like complaining a street bike has less horsepower than a Porsche. Efficiency is also a key factor as well as intended use. When all the firmware is current for each speaker, the appropriate settings chosen for the task the drivers are going to do, the correct room and overall eq settings I have found the system is pretty amazing, and I have had the best Yorkville, Bose, EV and JBL has to offer and they don't come close in overall realism.

 

Let's see if we can get this issue solved, Cheers


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#11 psarkissian

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 09:07 AM

"Are you using AES 110 digital rated runs under 50'?"---

Good question. Can't use 50-Ohm mic cable, it the wrong impedance.

Have to use the AES/EBU, 110-Ohm, L6 Link cable, under 50-feet or

you will have signal problems.

 

Acoustical problems are typically from what's called "air leak distortions", typically

when a unit is re-assembled after servicing. Where gaskets and grommets are not

all there and/or the hardware is not tightened down to the correct torque.


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