Jump to content


Photo

Strat Sound In Hd 2.0 Sucks


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 sacapuntas

sacapuntas

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:09 AM

Hi folks

 

the telecaster sound of the Variax sounds quite good. However, the strat sounds so nasal and artifical. Any hints what to do? Compare to my real strats it is like a piece of ....

 

What s your experience

 

Thanks

Sacapuntas

 

 


  • 1

#2 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1155 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:26 AM

Try reading the other posts here.  There is lots of info about the 2.0 Strat sounds.  There are some workbench patches you can download to improve it!


  • 0

#3 Melissiah

Melissiah

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 122 posts
  • LocationQuébec

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:36 AM

Curiously a majority of users prefer strat 2.0. I am not one of thoses


  • -2

My Dream Rig Studio:

http://line6.com/sup...your-dream-rig/

My dream rig presets for now 1.9

www.monsieurmaxime.com/resources/Melissiah.zip

www.monsieurmaxime.com/resources/Shine%20on.zip


#4 stevekc

stevekc

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 275 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:43 AM

 

Curiously a majority of users prefer strat 2.0. I am not one of thoses

 

Same here-

 

Instead - try new ones,  download them here:

 

http://www.vguitarfo...php?board=138.0


  • 0

#5 clay-man

clay-man

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 868 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:06 AM

Have any of the people who hate the 2.0 strat have played a real strat?


  • 0

For a minute there, I lost myself.

Radiohead_bear-728286%5B1%5D.png 


#6 arislaf

arislaf

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1095 posts
  • LocationGreece

Posted 20 September 2013 - 12:35 PM

Have any of the people who hate the 2.0 strat have played a real strat?

I did.


  • 1

#7 clay-man

clay-man

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 868 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 01:42 PM

What is the general complaint, that it's less like a strat than 1.9 is, or that people just like 1.9 better just because they think it sounds better?

 

If it's more accurate than 1.9, then I think people just need to make their own workbench patches to compensate the loss of any stuff they thought 1.9 offered.

 

I suggest you guys push L6 for another strat body to use in workbench if it concerns you that much.


  • 0

For a minute there, I lost myself.

Radiohead_bear-728286%5B1%5D.png 


#8 arislaf

arislaf

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1095 posts
  • LocationGreece

Posted 20 September 2013 - 02:30 PM

As from my experience, the strat I played were very similar to the 1.9 and moderately similar to the 2.0.

Also the 1.9 had better sound.

 

But honestly, nothing compares to the 700's Variax with g.teck installed.


  • 1

#9 johnnyayyy

johnnyayyy

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1375 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 03:09 PM

What is the general complaint, that it's less like a strat than 1.9 is, or that people just like 1.9 better just because they think it sounds better?

 

 

I think my Strat story/experience/ordeal will sort of answer this question...

 

I have never liked Strats. At all.

 

I could never get any kind of sound I wanted or could use out of any that I tried, and I have purchased, repaired, restored, and resold lots of them over the years for a living. Stratocasters just were not my thing.

 

Then I got a Variax. After noodling and doodling around on it for a while I discovered my favorite sound was the Spank 1 setting. I used Spank 1 for lots of stuff for a year or probably more, loved loved loved it!

 

A couple of months ago while recording a song with some palm muting parts that I could not pull off effectively on my Variax (at that point a JTV-89 with 1.9 firmware) I decided I would just buy a real Stratocaster and punch in those palm muted parts. Easy, yes?

 

Problem was, the real Strat that I purchased (Stock, Mexican) sounded ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like the JTV 1.9 Spank 1 tone. I tried punching in the palm muted bits and it stood out like a sore thumb - 100% Unusable.

 

What to do?

 

I set out on a search for a real world non digital Strat solution that would sound similar to my JTV with 1.9 firmware.

 

On advice from some helpful L6 forum members I ordered some fancy Fender Custom Shop Fat 50's pickups for the Mexi Strat. While waiting for them to arrive in the mail I found a great deal on a really nice used Fender American Standard Stratocaster on Craigslist, purchased that plus 2 other Mexi Strats and a vintage Japanese Strat copy.

 

I recorded some test tracks playing the same song with the JTV with 1.9 firmware, the Mexi Strat with stock pickup, the Mexi Strat with a "vintage hot" pickup I had in parts box, the Mexi Strat with the Fat 50's custom shop pickup, the American Standard Strat with stock pickups, the Japanese Strat Copy, and a second Mexican Standard Stratocaster with some cheapo aftermarket pickups from China.

 

Results: none of the Strats sounded the least bit similar to the JTV with 1.9 firmware. I was able to get some great sounds out of the real guitars but nothing close enough to punch in any bits on the recordings without it being painfully obvious. Ended up re-recording the tracks with the real Strat.

 

Later when the JTV firmware 2.0 came out I went back to those test recordings and added a track of JTV 2.0 Spank 1 for comparison, JTV 2.0 Spank 1 sounded nothing like JTV 1.9 but quite similar to the Mexi Strat with Fat 50's installed and in the same ballpark as the American Standard Strat and the other Strats I recorded. I believe I could now punch in tracks switching between a real Strat and the JTV HD Strat without anyone noticing.

 

My conclusion: the original Pre HD Variax Spank sounded GREAT, but likely sounds nothing like any real Strat that ever existed - I absolutely loved the sound of Spank 1 on the pre HD Variax and have never heard or played a Strat that sounded like that, I never liked Strats at all til I used the simulated one in the Pre-HD Variax. Would love to have a real world guitar with that tone...

 

After all these weeks (now months I think) of Strat noodling and since installing the Fat 50's pickups in the Mexi Strat I am now quite enjoying the "authentic" Strat sound, it took some time but it has really grown on me and I would say the JTV 2.0 Spank comes pretty close... I have learned recently to appreciate position 2 and 4 for certain things... nailing the tone of "Lay Down Sally" and "Sultans of Swing" in my goofing off time was quite a fun diversion for me... I am keeping the Mexi/Fat 50's Strat, already sold the other Mexis, and I still have the American Standard Stratocaster and the vintage Japanese copy for sale if anyone is interested... :)


  • 2

#10 ur2funky

ur2funky

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 114 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 03:51 PM

I've personally owned over 40 Strats, and always chased tone with pickup/neck swaps.

 

The 2.0 Spank tones are vanilla boring to me.

 

Swapping to the Dano body in Workbench helps a bit, but loses a bit of authenticity.    

 

Edit:  No offense to vanilla...


  • 1

#11 johnnyayyy

johnnyayyy

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1375 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 05:10 PM

I've personally owned over 40 Strats, and always chased tone with pickup/neck swaps.

 

The 2.0 Spank tones are vanilla boring to me.

 

Swapping to the Dano body in Workbench helps a bit, but loses a bit of authenticity.    

 

Edit:  No offense to vanilla...

 

A perfect descriptor IMO.

 

Most popular flavor of ice cream: Vanilla

 

Most popular guitar of all time: Fender Stratocaster

 

Ultimate Stratocaster = Maximum Vanillaness.

 

If it was too hot sounding the purists wouldn't love it.

 

And if it was too twangy  the modern guys would hate it.

 

Mission accomplished, everyone seems to hate it.

 

Well, not everyone really - just a vocal minority.

 

It is Vanilla, a perfect beautiful blank ice cream canvas for you to decorate with your choice of delicious toppings.

 

It sounds like a Strat now, and I believe that was the goal. Maybe some day we will have the option of using modeled fancy aftermarket pickups to dress it up any way we like...

 

I would love to be able to compare the sound of Fender Fat 50s to Texas Specials to DiMarzio FS-1s to Duncan Five-Twos to Kinmans to Frailins etc. by just clicking them one after another in Workbench... could you imagine? And adding a Workbench feature where we could raise and lower the pickups in relation to the string, not just change the volume, thereby completely changing the response and EQ curve of the pickup? And wouldn't you just love to see a steel baseplate mod in Workbench?

 

 

But for now Spank 2.0 just sounds like a regular good old delicious vanilla Strat. Yum!


  • 1

#12 johnnyayyy

johnnyayyy

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1375 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 05:31 PM

As from my experience, the strat I played were very similar to the 1.9

 

What year and model Strat? What kind of wood and finish for the body and neck?  And what pickups? I would love to be able to buy or cobble together a Strat that sounds similar to Variax 1.9 Spank 1 but have never heard that sound coming from any "real" guitar... I always assumed it was because the guitar they modeled was a magical $50,000 guitar that sounded better than any other Strat ever made but now I am not so sure...

 

Also the 1.9 had better sound.

 

I prefer the sound of the 1.9 Strat, but I do think the 2.0 Strat sounds much more like the "real" Strats I currently own.


  • 0

#13 toasterdude

toasterdude

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 830 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:31 PM

What year and model Strat? What kind of wood and finish for the body and neck?  And what pickups? I would love to be able to buy or cobble together a Strat that sounds similar to Variax 1.9 Spank 1 but have never heard that sound coming from any "real" guitar... I always assumed it was because the guitar they modeled was a magical $50,000 guitar that sounded better than any other Strat ever made but now I am not so sure...

 

 

I prefer the sound of the 1.9 Strat, but I do think the 2.0 Strat sounds much more like the "real" Strats I currently own.

Is that just for position 1 or have you compared the 1.9 pos 2 & 4 to the 2.0?

 

On a strat I never play position 1 or 3, 90% 2 or 4 and sometimes neck pickup. I can't wait to get home in a little over a week so I can finally upgrade to 2.0.


  • 0

#14 clay-man

clay-man

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 868 posts

Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:28 PM

So if the 2.0 spank model sounds more like a strat, then honestly you people shouldn't complain so hard about it. I understand what you guys are saying, but like I said, make presets to give it the characteristics of a 1.9 strat.

 

Like I said, they're trying to get as accurate as possible on the guitar they're modeling, not making a strat-inspired sound that people end up thinking sounds better than a real strat. 

 

Honestly it's kind of hilarious, as this is implying that something that's trying to be a strat actually sounds better than a real strat. Maybe that's true to some extent to us, but like I said, that's not the point of the Variax.

 

Workbench gives you incredible flexibility to play with, so you guys can achieve a 1.9 Strat with the HD firmware somehow. I'm sure if you tried, it could sound even more amazing than the 1.9 strat, since it has more response than the non HD variax.

Just keep playing with Workbench, I'm sure you'll get it.


  • 0

For a minute there, I lost myself.

Radiohead_bear-728286%5B1%5D.png 


#15 arislaf

arislaf

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1095 posts
  • LocationGreece

Posted 21 September 2013 - 01:43 AM

What year and model Strat? What kind of wood and finish for the body and neck?  And what pickups?

Year of production not sure, but model player's deluxe, alder, sunburst, maple, and pick ups stocks (i think vintage).But the deal is i don't remember if the push-pull was engaged and get the sound..


  • 0

#16 sacapuntas

sacapuntas

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 01:52 AM

Thanks for all the replies!

 

I downgraded to 1.9 and it sounded  better to my ears. I have 2 real strats (very nice ones!) in the same room. I was more after the tuning options. However, all in all it sounds somehow not good enough (sorry for being so picky) and I will send the Tyler back to the shop. The models in my GR55 sound IMHO still better and for occasional usage this is good enough.

 

Cheers


  • 0

#17 clay-man

clay-man

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 868 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 02:40 AM

I like Roland's guitar synth stuff, but I always thought using a GK pickup for modeling might be a little lacking. I'm not sure how good it is, but I know that magnetic pickups aren't really as good as getting as flat and wide of a frequency response as piezos. 

I always thought that's why Line6 used piezos, because they're ideal for modeling since it's good at monitoring your guitar strings whole than just getting 1 nice sounding mid range frequency of your strings that most magnetics do.

 

I could be wrong, I don't know, maybe you can make a magnetic pickup be that broad, I mean they do have magnetic acoustic pickups.


  • 0

For a minute there, I lost myself.

Radiohead_bear-728286%5B1%5D.png 


#18 ozbadman

ozbadman

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1689 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:07 AM

I ended up with a Variax 700 after initially intending to buy a Fender V GUitar. I went to GC to try it out, and the modelling was just awful. The store rep recommended I try the VG-99, which I did and it was definitely better, but still not up to scratch. I went home gearless and did a search on the internet and came across this variax thing I'd never heard of. A guy on youtube did an acoustic demo and it blew me away. I got a second-hand one and have been very happy ever since. Now, whether Line 6's results are due to the piezo pickups, rather than Roland's Magnetic pickups I'm not sure, although I suspect it has a lot to do with it.


  • 0

#19 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1155 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:19 AM

Piezo's allow very good isolation of each string which makes many of the Variax features possible.


  • 0

#20 Geech

Geech

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 33 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 12:03 PM

Have any of the people who hate the 2.0 strat have played a real strat?

 

Probably and they also probably think every strat some how sounds exactly like the one they played.


  • 0

#21 Fendervariax

Fendervariax

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 12:28 PM

Hi folks

 

the telecaster sound of the Variax sounds quite good. However, the strat sounds so nasal and artifical. Any hints what to do? Compare to my real strats it is like a piece of ....

 

What s your experience

 

Thanks

Sacapuntas

 

Hi, despite all the answers, yes, I also do think that strat model does´nt. sound like a strat at all. More like a Les Paul with single coils.

 

Honestly, I´ve been comparing it to my real strat (2010 US ) for a few days, and the variax model lacks the sparkle and the harmonic content of a real strat.

 

I´m not saying that it sounds bad, it´s very usable and distinct from other models, but it can´t replace the real thing. It sounds sterile in comparison.

 

In my opinion, humbuckers are easier to model, the are more compressed and with less overtones than single coils are.

 

I don´t really think it´s going to be possible to capture the real soul of the strat in this generation. 

 

Just my opinion. Cheers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


  • 0

#22 Inerzia

Inerzia

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 169 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 12:45 PM

Have any of the people who hate the 2.0 strat have played a real strat?

That's a bit arrogant, don't you think? As if strats were hard to come by...
I may have played just one or two strats before buying my v700, back in 2004, but have played many more since, and, probably, every one of them delivered a different array of timbres.
I loved the 2 and 4 positions on preHD firmware because it had *THAT* Knopfler tone, and that IS a strat tone. 
Aside from the workbench bug and the string volume issues, the current spank position can sound like a decent strat, and more realistically so, being HD and all, but the previous spank DID SOUND LIKE A STRAT!!!  
It did, and I loved it for that. Many of us loved that model and we miss it. What's so hard to understand about that? 

It's been a month or so, since I installed 2.0 on my JTV and, even though I would still prefer a 1.9 spank kind of tone, I'm not rolling back because I still have the v700 to get that tone. Besides, the new one is nice, and it's starting to grow on me.


  • 3

#23 clay-man

clay-man

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 868 posts

Posted 21 September 2013 - 01:47 PM

That's a bit arrogant, don't you think? As if strats were hard to come by...
I may have played just one or two strats before buying my v700, back in 2004, but have played many more since, and, probably, every one of them delivered a different array of timbres.
I loved the 2 and 4 positions on preHD firmware because it had *THAT* Knopfler tone, and that IS a strat tone. 
Aside from the workbench bug and the string volume issues, the current spank position can sound like a decent strat, and more realistically so, being HD and all, but the previous spank DID SOUND LIKE A STRAT!!!  
It did, and I loved it for that. Many of us loved that model and we miss it. What's so hard to understand about that? 

It's been a month or so, since I installed 2.0 on my JTV and, even though I would still prefer a 1.9 spank kind of tone, I'm not rolling back because I still have the v700 to get that tone. Besides, the new one is nice, and it's starting to grow on me.

 

I know. I apologize, but at the same time I'm kind of serious. We shouldn't be complaining to bring back 1.9 to replace 2.0 if it's actually accurate.

 

I think it's been mentioned that the 2 & 4 positions are literally bugged out and that they're trying to fix it. I don't understand why they haven't fixed it yet.


  • 0

For a minute there, I lost myself.

Radiohead_bear-728286%5B1%5D.png 


#24 johnnyayyy

johnnyayyy

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1375 posts

Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:04 AM

Is that just for position 1 or have you compared the 1.9 pos 2 & 4 to the 2.0?

 

On a strat I never play position 1 or 3, 90% 2 or 4 and sometimes neck pickup. I can't wait to get home in a little over a week so I can finally upgrade to 2.0.

 

I only did the exhaustive A/B recording comparisons in position 1 - I don't use 2,3,4, or 5 for any songs or for recording so far, I use Spank 1 for a growling twangy vintage surf/rockabilly tone and HD 2.0 sounds fairly close to the real thing, definitely in the ballpark and much closer than 1.9 and earlier.

 

With JTV 2.0 Spank sounds like a Strat now - firmware 1.9 and earlier never did IMO and this is definitely not a complaint, as I said before I never liked the sound of Strats at all til recently but I loved the sound of pre-HD Spank from the first moment I heard it.

 

I have only recently begun to appreciate Spank position 2 through 5 and I am having fun noodling around in those positions lately, especially pos. 2 - from the limited amount of playing I have done on those positions and without having done proper A/B testing I would say 2.0 HD in all positions sounds much more like my real Strats than pre-HD ever did.


  • 0

#25 israz99

israz99

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 31 posts

Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:11 AM

Hi folks

 

the telecaster sound of the Variax sounds quite good. However, the strat sounds so nasal and artifical. Any hints what to do? Compare to my real strats it is like a piece of ....

 

What s your experience

 

Thanks

Sacapuntas

I've modified the spank settings in WB 2.0 and next week I'll be posting some samples and see if our camarades here think they sound better.


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users