Riki1 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I have a fender twin reverb Amp 65 RI Amp. It has no effects loop just straight in the front. I usually use pedals inc. Strymon,boss,Barber etc for my effects but hate the tap dancing so yesterday I bought the Helix LT to replace them. When setting up a new preset I'm wondering what the general rule or thinking is about using the pre Amp blocks? Should I be using one,where should I place it? I may eventually go down the full Amp+cab route but really want to just rock out with my band using my Amp for now. So far (2 hours use) I'm finding it great, except the delays which is a big part of my effects. I played about with a firehawk fx with the app and it seemed to have lots of options for tone tighter -darker but so far the transistor tape and couple of other delays haven't sounded as good as my boss dd-500 I want it to replace.... any tips ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 How did you have your old effects routed into the front of your amp, just serially, and in what order? If you are trying to take the place of those effect with the Helix, you will need to "simulate" the same routing with the appropriate effect blocks in Helix. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riki1 Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 Yes, just guitar into 2 overdrive pedal > Aqua puss > DD-500 > Strymon Flint > Wampler faux spring > Amp. No idea what parallel does to be honest. There doesn't seem to be much control over the delays settings such as tape heads 1+3 or Tone , just sounds different I guess, to get that effect do I have to instead us 2 delays and sync them differently to have the effect of tape heads or something? I like the idea of using these pre amps to to change a few presets such as making it sound more Voxy or supro (soup pro), but do I put the pre Amp first or after distortion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 You can try preamp blocks, it won't hurt anything. Try one without any other effects to see what it sounds like. Try reverb and delay in parallel. You will retain definition in your delays since reverb and delay signals are independent. I am not familiar with your particular effect pedals, so you will just have to play around within the Helix to duplicate them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riki1 Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 Right so I have one line (path) with a delay, then split the path before the delays and put a reverb in and then join them back up before the output? How does this make any difference compared to just having reverb come after delay in the same line (path) ? Sorry I'm usually a straight into the Amp guitarist that runs everything simple but I am interested in learning the benefits and theory of all this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Right so I have one line (path) with a delay, then split the path before the delays and put a reverb in and then join them back up before the output? How does this make any difference compared to just having reverb come after delay in the same line (path) ? Sorry I'm usually a straight into the Amp guitarist that runs everything simple but I am interested in learning the benefits and theory of all this stuff. A parallel patch will isolate the effects so that the reverb doesn't affect the delay, or the delay doesn't affect the reverb resulting in a better blend of the two. You can also use the split to determine how much signal you want going into each of the effects. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvroberts Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 One thing that might confuse you is that when you split a path, you have control of how much of the signal goes down each path - I first was wondering why I wasn't getting much effect from a delay in a parallel path until I realised that. If it was only getting half the level then when set full wet, it was still only a 50% mix. That parallel path thing is also a matter of taste. I have mixed 2 completely different amps to great effect that way though. Your Strymon Flint might be a slightly better reverb for some sounds - possibly say vintage tremolo - than the units in the Helix - but you can use 2 together - and personally I don't find that a problem - there are definitely some on this list that are lobbying for more and better reverb and delay units. Straight into the front of the amp, you should be able to get very close - it's more in the studio situation you might notice something you like about the Strymon that you aren't quiet getting out of the Helix. I assume you run your amp clean and get drive tones from your pedals? If so, some people have had great results using a preamp as a kind of overdrive, and it can help your amp sound a bit different to the Fender it is! EQ will also help there, But the sound of your amp and speakers will always restrict how far you can move away from the basic sound of your amp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riki1 Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 I've been reading the manual, I suppose I'll just try a few things a see (well hear) what it sounds like. I'll have to research it a bit more as I don't get why I'd need to add say more signal to a reverb to the join it up after a delay for instance? What does this achieve if anything? You say I can change the guitar volume going into each but what's the benefit of that? The plan is to sort everything out so I can gig with the fender twin but also make a few presets to go in the P.A to try out at sound checks and maybe if they sound decent buy a frfr monitor etc and leave the Twin at home sometimes to. (Especially if there's stairs lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunedinDragon Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I've been reading the manual, I suppose I'll just try a few things a see (well hear) what it sounds like. I'll have to research it a bit more as I don't get why I'd need to add say more signal to a reverb to the join it up after a delay for instance? What does this achieve if anything? You say I can change the guitar volume going into each but what's the benefit of that? The plan is to sort everything out so I can gig with the fender twin but also make a few presets to go in the P.A to try out at sound checks and maybe if they sound decent buy a frfr monitor etc and leave the Twin at home sometimes to. (Especially if there's stairs lol) I think one of the things that may be making you feel a bit uncomfortable here is that the design of the Helix tends to match the studio recording paradigm more than the live performance paradigm. Much of what you do in a live setting is based on the limitations of time or equipment whereas in the studio that's not really the case. That's why many of the options regarding layout of effects (pre-amp, post-amp but before cabinet, post cabinet, split signal processing) aren't necessarily familiar to you. This is especially true when it comes to cabinets, mics, and mic placement. One thing you might consider as you explore these various options is to get some decent studio monitors or high quality studio headset and attach them to the Helix at home to better explore and understand how these things affect your sound. Some of these options can be pretty subtle and are much more evident through a more precise output. That would give you an lot more confidence in how to use the Helix and is a straightforward transition to FRFR monitors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riki1 Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 I have a pair of Yamaha HS7 monitors I use (I play keyboard to ) and I've played through that a bit with the helix. Yes not looking at recording anything. In a covers band just want some different delays, distortions, and bit of phase here and there, use snapshots when I can. Maybe once I have some more money I'll venture into the Amp+cab sims with a frfr live but for now it's the Twin Amp I use live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 I've been reading the manual, I suppose I'll just try a few things a see (well hear) what it sounds like. I'll have to research it a bit more as I don't get why I'd need to add say more signal to a reverb to the join it up after a delay for instance? What does this achieve if anything? You say I can change the guitar volume going into each but what's the benefit of that? The plan is to sort everything out so I can gig with the fender twin but also make a few presets to go in the P.A to try out at sound checks and maybe if they sound decent buy a frfr monitor etc and leave the Twin at home sometimes to. (Especially if there's stairs lol) Just try some of those ideas out and see if you like the way it sounds. To get you going for gigs, just drop in similar effects in the same order that you are used to with your pedals and just tweak them to taste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riki1 Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 I will and thanks so much . Had 2 hours free today so did some editing and I'm finding that things sounds a lot brighter , Distortions and delays anyway. Should I add an Eq in? Is that the best way to sort that out? Should I put the eq after the effects or before. Found I like using the pre amp as my first block, I like the Vox Ac30 but the volume is way way lower, so to sort that I put an eq after the pre amp and boosted the volume with the 3 band eq Getting that hang of it slowly. Is there a way to name snapshots? I have it setup so there's 4 presets up top and 4 snapshots below, would be good if I could change it to say Solo, or more distortion etc .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riki1 Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 Ignore snapshots question just found it in the online manual. By the way is the helix supposed to come with a manual as I didn't get one in the box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuhajla Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Ignore snapshots question just found it in the online manual. By the way is the helix supposed to come with a manual as I didn't get one in the box? The manual is on the USB memory stick. They don't include printed copies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riki1 Posted June 27, 2017 Author Share Posted June 27, 2017 Oh. I don't have a computer. Just an iPad or my phone. Which also means I'm stuck with firmware 2.1 for the time being Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicLaw Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Download the Helix User Manual 2.0 (Rev D) PDF from the Helix Line 6 Support Area (if the version on your USB stick is older). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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