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Pod Hd500x I Think It's A Keeper!


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#21 hurghanico

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 04:42 PM

Again sorry to all.

 

I'm sure no one here were offended and you do not have to apologize
indeed, I was slightly worried that you were offended, since, in particular, I was perhaps a little too direct, even though I had really no intention to offend, but rather to warn you

I must admit that
now I still can not understand why you bought back the same item 5 times or more, rather than think that any problem could be resolved or by trying to learn more how to use it in a better way, or perhaps by changing brand and device..

 

with my perhaps limited mental capacity I can understand up to 2 purchases of the same object
because it can happen to think: "ok! maybe I was wrong and I took the decision to get rid of it too quickly
"

but if even the second time I would feel disappointed I would definitely look elsewhere without looking back anymore

 

but it is clear that we are not all the same and the world is varied

anyway you're absolutely free to write all your experiences and you're always welcome


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#22 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 04:49 PM

I don't think you need to apologize . I think if anything others need to apologize to you. That has been your experience and it's a valid one. There are many possibilities why HDX can sound better right of the box. Consider this:

The default on most patches in the HD 500 was Mixer Hard left Hard right!! Maybe the HD500X changed that!

 

For those who are looking for in your face natural amp sound, hard left and right has to be the worst possible setup. Pan the two mixer channels dead center and hear what I'm talking about.  I'm talking setting the same perceived volume on two patches with any amp where the mixer channels are dead center will give the most defined best natural amp sound for whatever reason. If you use one channel dead center and mute the other, you won't get the full amp sound you would get if you use both channels dead center.

In theory and science it might not make a lot of  sense but consider that in DAWS, there's a pan law of different volume changes or no volume changes when you move the pan position. I have no idea what pan law is used in the HD500 (possibly -3db, some of the experts might want to chime in if they're reading this), but the stereo image and overall punch are affected significantly with every pan position and I'm not talking about the volume variation.

 

 After all this is a guitar processor, yet you can have two independent stereo paths, which is not necessarily a good thing for someone who just want the whole bandwidth (if that's the right term) dedicated to guitar, not guitar and vocals or two guitars one left and one right or even Variax and guitar Blah blah blah.  So for anyone who's having a difficult time getting more natural full amp sound, I highly recommend panning the two channels dead center and for the sake of whatever is sacred to you, forget about dual amps.  How many of us have played dual amps in the real world!  The pods actually models very closely each amps regardless of all the naysayers. One amp with one speaker can sound pretty damn good, with little bit of tweaking! Before you start adding to the mix, get that one amp one speaker sounding right first.


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#23 TheRealZap

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 04:53 PM

yeah as others stated no need to apologize... the forum is to share opinions etc... 

i certainly don't agree with many.... but at least i get to see what those opinions are so that i can quietly make fun of them when noone is looking  :blink:  oops did i say that outloud?  :lol:


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#24 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 05:43 PM

So TheRealZap, do you happen to know what's the pan law for the HD500, X and pro happens to be? Also since you have both the HD500 and HD500X, is there a different default on factory patches in regard to input 1 and input 2. Setting input one and two to guitar is far different sounding from 1:Guitar 2:variax and all the other crazy possibilities.

 

 Why can't line 6 give some guidance on this issue? I mean when they tested the models, what is the recommended setting to get the authentic sound they were trying to model?. I know it might sound funny that the the HD500X sounds different than the HD500, but that can be due to a different input/ output/setting and an issue that can be put to rest if line 6 gave some guidance. I had the HD300 first and when I moved to the HD500, I couldn't duplicate the patches I had in the 300 for the life of me. Do you want to know why, because it's not supported and it can't be done. Same amp, same digital simulation, yet staggering difference in gain staging and over all sound :o

 

the best one yet is: you recently posted a sticky with a conversion utility between POD HD 500 / POD HD 500X / POD HD Desktop / POD HD Pro. If they're so identical why can't line6 provide a converter? :blink:


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#25 TheRealZap

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 06:11 PM

I haven't done any side by side on the unit defaults... since i immediately started changing things...

but i was able to load my 500 tones to the prox without any notable differences.

 

I don't tend to use the panning functions enough to answer those questions.

 

as far as conversions go... my understanding is that they don't want to support conversion...  because the units might not be the same forever...

for example, there was a period of time when the 300 had models that the 500 didn't etc....

they don't explicitly deny the ability to convert from one to the other... which is a whole lot better than nothing!

 

when they are testing and modeling, they don't simply go for a tone... they model everything down to knob behavior etc....

and in some cases they may make adjustments that will allow you to exceed what the real amp is capable of while still being able to get all the sounds of the real amp...

examples of this would be a drive knob on the fender models, and the cut knob on the AC models... (i think... don't recall super specifics)

some adjustments they allow would not easily be done to the real model (deep edit parameters)

 

the 300/400 vs the 500 could be very different because of the differences in the software... some software functions on the 500 were external switches on the 300/400

and then you have things such as the variable z not being available to the 300/400

comparing the 300/400 to the 500/bean pro etc is like comparing granny smiths to red delicious... both apples but they aren't from the same tree.

 

 

So TheRealZap, do you happen to know what's the pan law for the HD500, X and pro happens to be? Also since you have both the HD500 and HD500X, is there a different default on factory patches in regard to input 1 and input 2. Setting input one and two to guitar is far different sounding from 1:Guitar 2:variax and all the other crazy possibilities.

 

 Why can't line 6 give some guidance on this issue? I mean when they tested the models, what is the recommended setting to get the authentic sound they were trying to model?. I know it might sound funny that the the HD500X sounds different than the HD500, but that can be due to a different input/ output/setting and an issue that can be put to rest if line 6 gave some guidance. I had the HD300 first and when I moved to the HD500, I couldn't duplicate the patches I had in the 300 for the life of me. Do you want to know why, because it's not supported and it can't be done. Same amp, same digital simulation, yet staggering difference in gain staging and over all sound :o

 

the best one yet is: you recently posted a sticky with a conversion utility between POD HD 500 / POD HD 500X / POD HD Desktop / POD HD Pro. If they're so identical why can't line6 provide a converter? :blink:


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#26 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 06:25 PM

Thanks for taking the time.  With answers like this, I really hope those greedy (...) are paying you.


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#27 Guitarathome

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 06:31 PM


 

For those who are looking for in your face natural amp sound, hard left and right has to be the worst possible setup.

 

I always felt my bigest problem was with the mixer, but I really did try just about everything I could think of with it, and yes the in your face natural amp sound is exactly what I am talking about. Not quality of sound as that is the same.

 

I should qualify my sales and returns of the 500. I did not try the same thing over and over each time I was trying it with different gear like I bought a JTV59 and at the time did not have a pod so I bought one to try with the JTV, another time I bought a DT50 and had to give that a shot and so on. I sold my last HD500 just before the 500x came out because I had saved up the money to buy the AXEII.


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#28 Guitarathome

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 07:50 PM

OK something bad just happened. As you know I have been extremely happy with the 500X I have owned it for about a week and it has been perfect this whole time. So I decided to hook it up to my computer to install the latest firmware. I was worried it might change the sound and all was well after the update it still had the in your face open tone. So I installed the editor and again I was a little worried so I was playing while it was connecting and as soon as it connected to the editor for the first time bam the dynamics and open tone were gone it sounded a little like putting ear plugs in, and I instantly recognized the same familiar dull tone from the 500s before "Exactly the same". I have allways played the 500s connected to the editor for ease of use was that My problem all along or is there something wrong with my computer?

 

So I unpluged the usb and the sound did not change I ran through all my paches with the USB unpluged and everything was still dull and sounded nothing like before.

 

Then the good news I cycled the power with the USB unpluged and the great sound returned back to normal. Thankfully

 

Now with that said back when I used the 500s before my guitar always sounded dull when I would turn it on, and then it would sound great for a few seconds while it was connecting to the editor "I used to think why the hell can't it sound like that all the time" then it would retun back to dull once it connected. I think you guys clearly do not have this problem and your 500S have been rocking the whole time. It must have something to do with my computer.

 

Now I'm afraid to connect back to the editor.


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#29 joel_brown

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 08:41 PM

What other USB devices do you have plugged into your computer ?  Sounds like the problem has been found, just need to work on the solution.

 

btw - I give you high marks on being persistant after buying/returning the HD500 so many times.


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#30 hurghanico

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 02:46 AM

.. is there a different default on factory patches in regard to input 1 and input 2. Setting input one and two to guitar is far different sounding from 1:Guitar 2:variax and all the other crazy possibilities.

 

 Why can't line 6 give some guidance on this issue? I mean when they tested the models, what is the recommended setting to get the authentic sound they were trying to model?..

 

I know your question was directed to Zap, and also I'm not a Line6 representative, but I will say what I think
also because Zap has not responded on this precise point

I bet what you want that the default configuration of the inputs in the
HD500X factory patches remained identical to that in the HD500, ie 1=2, except for patches conceived for 2 different and separate instruments

therefore it seems logical that the above setting is considered by Line6 the point of reference for a standard response of the models, but of course then everyone can change it as they see fit

 

since you can change that setting for each preset, why they didn't use 1≠2 setting if the result could be more authentic at least for some single amp patches?
 

here we have already proved the inputs settings functioning and "perapera" has clearly described it in this thread:

http://line6.com/sup...ing-schematics/

 

so in the end I would conclude by saying that there will probably never be an official response (NDA may be?), and that the only answer we can get is through observation and reasoning,.. better than nothing.. or not?


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#31 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 04:56 AM

...

so in the end I would conclude by saying that there will probably never be an official response (NDA may be?), and that the only answer we can get is through observation and reasoning,.. better than nothing.. or not?

True. I'm generally happy with the HD500 but I can see how some might be having problems due to basic issues such as what input or mixer setting to use.  I was always happy with what I was getting until I got the Eleven Rack that has no dual path, just a simple stereo path. I couldn't believe that my patches that sounded great in the HD sounded small and thin in comparison to those in the Eleven Rack. I figured there has to be a solution that's due to the input/output. Once I figured it out, I managed to get the amp sounds in the HD to be comparable. I wanted to get the full body amp sound and sure enough centering both  mixer channels did the trick + also added the graphic eq to compensate for some of the mids missing on one side of the split only. I will probably upload a patch and sound samples to illustrate when I get some time.


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#32 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:09 AM

 

So I unpluged the usb and the sound did not change I ran through all my paches with the USB unpluged and everything was still dull and sounded nothing like before.

 

Then the good news I cycled the power with the USB unpluged and the great sound returned back to normal. Thankfully

 

The USB connection is capable of doing serious damage to the POD if you happen to end up with a corrupt patch!! I've had to recover my POD from a dreaded reboot loop twice after thinking it was bricked by using hardware resetting. I confirmed this by opening the same patch and getting the dreaded reboot loop intentionally, so I'm positive about this.  It was reassuring knowing that the designers are aware that such problems can occur so they have the hardware reset in place in the even that should happen.

 

Now remember if you use the Line6 driver panel for monitoring and happen to lower the monitor fader, every time you plug the USB, the volume is reduced based on that monitor slider inside the Driver window in the PC or MAC. Add to that some misbehavior and some bugs in the driver and you can end up with unpredictable behavior where you will lose volume completely when you disconnect from USB or the unit will sound like crap literally. I did get real wacky behavior several times and I basically did the Hardware resetting several times to fix the problems. My ability to build and trouble shoot computers helped in that regard, but I can see how not being aware of these issues, some might just be dealing with a malfunctioning unit that can sound like crap also due to these unresolved problems. Just remember to use Hardware Reset and you should be fine. 


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#33 hurghanico

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:59 AM

The USB connection is capable of doing serious damage to the POD if you happen to end up with a corrupt patch!! I've had to recover my POD from a dreaded reboot loop twice after thinking it was bricked by using hardware resetting.

 

I also suspect that the USB connection in some cases could cause several issues with PODs (not only) in general

in the past an XTL has almost completely gone while being connected to my pc, all the model packs gone and also some internal FX models, and the XTL USB not working any more

 

now, I'm not absolutely sure that was due to a faulty pc USB socket (or cable), but I noticed the following things:

unfortunately USB sockets often are soldered directly to the main board especially on laptops, and with intensive use some times they could desolder themselves in some points, leaving some contacts to be very weak that with a minimum movement or vibration can cause a momentary fast contact loss, with consequent current spikes, which I imagine could damage some connected peripherals..

 

on my pc I have identified 2 weak USB sockets of 4, if I connect an hard disk to one of them and I don't touch the USB plug everything works fine, but as soon as I touch the plug with a minimum force the connection is interrupted for a moment and then everything starts to work again, but sometimes the hard disk remains stalled..

 

also I think that the more peripherals are connected at the same time to the pc and the worst could be the possible damages for the peripherals in case of spikes

 

therefore from then, to feel a bit safer, when I connect the POD to the PC, first I unplug any other USB connected device, and then I connect the POD to the supposed by me safer USB socket

 

and for me the one above here is also a good habit if I'm going to record something, because I noticed that the more things are connected together and the more possible noises (spikes) and strange pc DAW behaviours I get while recording


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#34 joel_brown

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 06:18 AM

I think you can buy a USB PC internal card for about $20 or so.  If it was me and I knew I had some USB port issues, I'd invest in a USB card and get some known good ports.


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#35 hurghanico

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:16 AM

I think you can buy a USB PC internal card for about $20 or so.  If it was me and I knew I had some USB port issues, I'd invest in a USB card and get some known good ports.

 

right!

 

in case you were speaking to me, I adopted the above suggested solution (and not only that) already some years ago

 

anyway I noticed that the above weak USB socket issue sometime happens also on other PCs which are quite new


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#36 dgtr

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:31 PM

I don't think you need to apologize . I think if anything others need to apologize to you. That has been your experience and it's a valid one. There are many possibilities why HDX can sound better right of the box. Consider this:

The default on most patches in the HD 500 was Mixer Hard left Hard right!! Maybe the HD500X changed that!

 

For those who are looking for in your face natural amp sound, hard left and right has to be the worst possible setup. Pan the two mixer channels dead center and hear what I'm talking about.  I'm talking setting the same perceived volume on two patches with any amp where the mixer channels are dead center will give the most defined best natural amp sound for whatever reason. If you use one channel dead center and mute the other, you won't get the full amp sound you would get if you use both channels dead center.

In theory and science it might not make a lot of  sense but consider that in DAWS, there's a pan law of different volume changes or no volume changes when you move the pan position. I have no idea what pan law is used in the HD500 (possibly -3db, some of the experts might want to chime in if they're reading this), but the stereo image and overall punch are affected significantly with every pan position and I'm not talking about the volume variation.

 

 After all this is a guitar processor, yet you can have two independent stereo paths, which is not necessarily a good thing for someone who just want the whole bandwidth (if that's the right term) dedicated to guitar, not guitar and vocals or two guitars one left and one right or even Variax and guitar Blah blah blah.  So for anyone who's having a difficult time getting more natural full amp sound, I highly recommend panning the two channels dead center and for the sake of whatever is sacred to you, forget about dual amps.  How many of us have played dual amps in the real world!  The pods actually models very closely each amps regardless of all the naysayers. One amp with one speaker can sound pretty damn good, with little bit of tweaking! Before you start adding to the mix, get that one amp one speaker sounding right first.

+1


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#37 bjnette

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 12:41 AM

Looks like a great subject for a comparison video.

You may well be right and there is some component design improvement.

I do agree that the presets are a liabillity to what is possile with the HD models and that creating a patch 

will get you your tone.


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