Program change

[Johanivansson]

So, I want to use Ableton Live to send program changes etc. Helix wants a message over CC32 to change program,

but for some reason CC32 is missing in Live. Any workarounds?

[rd2rk]

I think you're misunderstanding the difference between PC, CC and CHANNEL. You set Ableton to SEND a PC# over the MIDI CHANNEL that the Helix is set to RECEIVE on (MIDI BASE CHANNEL). You send the PC# from Ableton that corresponds to the Helix Preset that you want to load. CC# 32 is used to select the SETLIST that contains your desired Preset. The directions in the manual are a bit confusing on this issue (page 57). In the example, you send CC#32 with a VALUE of 007. Ableton would need to send:

 

CC#32 value 007   loads setlist
PC#005                  loads preset
CC#69 value 000   loads snapshot

 

I haven't done this from a DAW, but when I tried it from my FCB1010 it didn't work, probably because the Helix required a pause between messages that the FCB couldn't be configured for. Ableton may allow for that, or the default time between messages might be sufficient.

That is the extent of my knowledge on the subject. If someone knows more, I'd be pleased to know!

[rd2rk]

If you're still interested, here's a possible solution to the message timing issue posted by DBCROCKY in another thread:

 

DBCrocky, on 19 Sept 2017 - 06:05 AM, said:

FWIW, From John Fast of MIDI Solutions:

Hi Dave,

Thank you for your inquiry.

I've also received requests from a few other customers to add some timer functions to the Event Processor, it's difficult to add as a one-off custom modification but I'd eventually like to make them permanent addition to the product, unfortunately I'm currently working on some other projects and may not be able to complete it for a while.

However I thought a little more about this and it occurred to me that the footcontroller is likely sending exactly the same number of CC messages after each PC message, so if the Event Processor could count down a specific number of CC messages before allowing them to pass that might be another way to resolve the problem, and the Event Processor offers a sequence function which can do just this. Attached is a file containing the settings to program the Event Processor to filter exactly four CC messages after every PC message it receives. If you examine the settings you'll see that the sequence definitions contain six steps, this is because one step is required to allow the PC message to reset the sequence, four steps are for filtering CC messages, and the final step is the repeated step to allow all future CC messages to pass. You can modify the settings to count down any number of steps by right-clicking on settings #8 and #9.

Best regards,
John Fast, MIDI Solutions Inc.
www.midisolutions.com

F0 00 00 50 28 00 F7
{ Clear All Settings - allow all MIDI events not specified below to pass through unchanged }

F0 00 00 50 28 21 00 00 02 00 7F 01 03 00 7F F7
B0 00 00
{ Setting #1: Filter all Control Change events on all MIDI channels. Continue to process settings  (right-click to edit) }

F0 00 00 50 28 24 07 09 01 06 06 00 02 00 7F F7
C0 00
{ Setting #8: When Program Change events on all MIDI channels are received, jump to step #6 of the sequence beginning at setting #10, with 1 event per step, containing a total of 6 steps. Continue to process settings  (right-click to edit) }

F0 00 00 50 28 24 08 09 01 06 7C 00 02 00 7F 01 03 00 7F F7
B0 00 00
{ Setting #9: When Control Change events on all MIDI channels are received, jump to the previous step of the sequence beginning at setting #10, with 1 event per step, containing a total of 6 steps. When the first step of the sequence is reached, remain at the first step. Continue to process settings  (right-click to edit) }

F0 00 00 50 28 45 09 02 02 00 7F 03 03 00 7F F7
B0 00 00
{ Setting #10: Sequence Event: Control Change with the Control Change number obtained from the incoming X value and scaled to the outgoing range 0 - 127, and with the value obtained from the incoming Y value and scaled to the outgoing range 0 - 127, on all MIDI channels. Continue to process settings  (right-click to edit) }

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

If my earlier explanation worked for you (sending messages from Ableton didn't encounter the timing problem), please post back about it. Thanks.

[DBCrocky]

I am not sure because your FCB1010 is modified, but I am familiar with this issue on the unmodified FCB1010.

 

So, basically, the FCB1010 can send up to five PC messages, up to 2 CC messages.  In setup mode, you configure the PC messages on switch 1 to 5, and the CC messages on switches 6 and 7.

 

The issue is the for Bank changes to work, the CC #32 message have to come BEFORE the PC message.  However, as we have been discussing, the most common stuation is to send the PC first (to change the target devices preset, and then send the CC messages.

 

Behringer's fix for this is that they transmit the PC messages 1-4, then the CC messages 6,7 then PC message 5.

 

So if you put your PC message on switch #1, and your CC#32 message on switch #6, it won't work because the PC message is sent before the CC message.

 

But if your put your PC message on switch #5 and your CC#32 message on switch #6, it WILL work because the CC message is sent before the PC message.

 

I don't know how your UNO modified FCB1010 changes this.

 

BTW, if you have a windows PC, the MIDI-OX shareware program is an excellent way to "sniff" the MIDI output of a device to see what it is really doing.

 

Also note that if you don't want to change setlists, you can still select Helix patches with just a PC message by itself.

[rd2rk]

Yep, and it didn't work, which is why I suspected timing.