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Helix native tones muddy/undynamic

helix helixnative recording tone muddy distortion metal

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#1 EricKnabe

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 07:20 PM

I recently got the free trial of helix native to see if the helix was for me. I've been looking at it for a long time. Now that I have it, all my tones are muddy. When I record, the notes sound like one long jumbled and distorted mess. I record through a Scarlett 2i2 with the input gain super low because that helps. My question is, how would I fix this? Is it the Scarlett's gain that's the problem? Would the helix floor or rack have the same issues recording through that input as opposed to recording through a separate interface? Thanks
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#2 bjnette

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 05:35 AM

You might have to experiment with your input impedance as it sounds like you might be clipping the input while monitoring with direct with the round trip via the computer DAW and Native with too high a buffer.
What ever works for any other Amp sim should be fine. Guitar Direct in on instrument impedance with the gain averaging (not peaking)-12db or -18db. Peaking well in the green not the red.
Next is the output level is not clipping back into your interface for monitoring at all.
What do you monitor on?
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#3 skyfirez1

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 06:40 AM

Use the optical trem as your last block. Put rate/depth @ 1 and 1. Everything comes alive right there
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#4 jroseberry

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 07:22 AM

There's a world of difference in DI inputs... and this does affect the results you'll achieve using Helix Native.

 

If you've ever heard DI electric bass thru a cheap DI box vs. something like a Neve channel, the difference is night and day (as is the cost difference).

The cheap DI box sounds anemic compared to the Neve.

It's the same with DI electric guitar.

 

Part of what you're paying for with Helix Floor/Rack/LT is an analog input section tailored to this specific task.

To achieve similar results to the Helix hardware, you need a quality DI input.


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Best Regards,

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#5 cruisinon2

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 07:32 AM

I recently got the free trial of helix native to see if the helix was for me. I've been looking at it for a long time. Now that I have it, all my tones are muddy. When I record, the notes sound like one long jumbled and distorted mess. I record through a Scarlett 2i2 with the input gain super low because that helps. My question is, how would I fix this? Is it the Scarlett's gain that's the problem? Would the helix floor or rack have the same issues recording through that input as opposed to recording through a separate interface? Thanks


I've been using the Scarlet 2i4 interface with Native, and have no issues...if it's you first time with Helix, and/or modelers in general, it's much more likely that you just haven't hit on a combination of amp/cab/mic sims that suits you yet. You gotta mess around...usually a lot...at the outset. Think days to a couple of weeks, rather than hours. Modeling is a little weird, and there tends to be a bit of a learning curve.
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#6 parker1963

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 08:18 AM

I have my Helix Rack and Native, using my Presonus Desk/Interface it sounds near as dammit identical.


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#7 jbuhajla

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 08:42 AM

I recently got the free trial of helix native to see if the helix was for me. I've been looking at it for a long time. Now that I have it, all my tones are muddy. When I record, the notes sound like one long jumbled and distorted mess. I record through a Scarlett 2i2 with the input gain super low because that helps. My question is, how would I fix this? Is it the Scarlett's gain that's the problem? Would the helix floor or rack have the same issues recording through that input as opposed to recording through a separate interface? Thanks

With the Helix, you don't need an external interface. Helix is the interface. It has 8 ins/outs via usb. You set your DAW to look for the Helix over USB, and that is it. 

 

Sounds like you don't have something set up correctly between your interface, DAW, and Native. 


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Disclaimer: All my opinions referencing the Helix (and all other products) are based upon my personal playing tastes and gear. I am not a high gain amp player and play primarily electrics with single coil pickups. Your tastes and gear will vary. I could be wrong about anything I am posting about. Consult your equipment's manual before attempting any of my suggestions. I am not an audio engineer, but I am an electrical engineer. I will still be wrong about many things despite my academic background. My first Line 6 product was the Ax212 modeling amp combo and floor board. Rock on...

Ephesians 5:19- ...addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart


#8 skyfirez1

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 03:20 AM

I recently got the free trial of helix native to see if the helix was for me. I've been looking at it for a long time. Now that I have it, all my tones are muddy. When I record, the notes sound like one long jumbled and distorted mess. I record through a Scarlett 2i2 with the input gain super low because that helps. My question is, how would I fix this? Is it the Scarlett's gain that's the problem? Would the helix floor or rack have the same issues recording through that input as opposed to recording through a separate interface? Thanks


Did you try my optical trem suggestion
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#9 jbuhajla

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 04:27 AM

Did you try my optical trem suggestion

I don't think a tremolo effect will help with signal gain issues. 


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Disclaimer: All my opinions referencing the Helix (and all other products) are based upon my personal playing tastes and gear. I am not a high gain amp player and play primarily electrics with single coil pickups. Your tastes and gear will vary. I could be wrong about anything I am posting about. Consult your equipment's manual before attempting any of my suggestions. I am not an audio engineer, but I am an electrical engineer. I will still be wrong about many things despite my academic background. My first Line 6 product was the Ax212 modeling amp combo and floor board. Rock on...

Ephesians 5:19- ...addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart


#10 skyfirez1

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 04:32 AM

I don't think a tremolo effect will help with signal gain issues.


Just try it. Trust me it brings the helix to life
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#11 jbuhajla

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 04:38 AM

Don't get me wrong, I do like some subtle trem at times (bubble trem is my favorite for that). However, it is not a fix for gain staging through a signal chain. 


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Disclaimer: All my opinions referencing the Helix (and all other products) are based upon my personal playing tastes and gear. I am not a high gain amp player and play primarily electrics with single coil pickups. Your tastes and gear will vary. I could be wrong about anything I am posting about. Consult your equipment's manual before attempting any of my suggestions. I am not an audio engineer, but I am an electrical engineer. I will still be wrong about many things despite my academic background. My first Line 6 product was the Ax212 modeling amp combo and floor board. Rock on...

Ephesians 5:19- ...addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart


#12 skyfirez1

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 04:48 AM

Well it was free advice. Take it or leave it
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#13 PeterHamm

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 05:13 AM

Is the guitar plugged into Scarlet with the Line/Inst switch set to Inst? That might be the problem.


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I play Tom Anderson, Wechter & Line 6 (for whom I am a Beta Tester for Helix Rack)

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#14 skyfirez1

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 06:50 AM

Is the guitar plugged into Scarlet with the Line/Inst switch set to Inst? That might be the problem.


Should we use focusrite set to line and not inst? I'm using the solo 2nd gen
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#15 cruisinon2

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 06:53 AM

Should we use focusrite set to line and not inst? I'm using the solo 2nd gen


No...it should be set to instrument. If you set it to "line" the interface is expecting a much hotter signal than a guitar can deliver, and you'll have to crank it to hear anything.
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#16 PeterHamm

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 06:54 AM

Should we use focusrite set to line and not inst? I'm using the solo 2nd gen

 

I would think any time you're plugging an instrument in you want it set to instrument. Not sure where you would want the gain, though.

You might get some answers on the Focusrite web site, I don't know.


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I play Tom Anderson, Wechter & Line 6 (for whom I am a Beta Tester for Helix Rack)

Chuck Norris was the most amazing human being that ever lived until Peter Hamm was born.  :)

 


#17 EricKnabe

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 12:29 PM

Use the optical trem as your last block. Put rate/depth @ 1 and 1. Everything comes alive right there


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#18 skyfirez1

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 12:38 PM

Use the optical trem as your last block. Put rate/depth @ 1 and 1. Everything comes alive right there


Eric did this work for you
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#19 PeterHamm

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 12:40 PM

Eric did this work for you

 

fyi, just so I could say I tried it, I did.

Sorry, skyfirez1, but you are incorrect in this matter...


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I play Tom Anderson, Wechter & Line 6 (for whom I am a Beta Tester for Helix Rack)

Chuck Norris was the most amazing human being that ever lived until Peter Hamm was born.  :)

 


#20 spikey

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 02:09 PM

With the Helix, you don't need an external interface.

 

 

Unless you prefer a better audio interface and just want to use Helix for what its main intended purpose was/is, a killer guitar processor...  ;)


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Too much measuring and not enough music-making...    :lol: 

 


#21 PeterHamm

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 02:21 PM

Unless you prefer a better audio interface and just want to use Helix for what its main intended purpose was/is, a killer guitar processor...  ;)

really? Helix is as good at getting my mic into the computer as anything I've used, and it's better at getting guitar in than anything I've seen.
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I play Tom Anderson, Wechter & Line 6 (for whom I am a Beta Tester for Helix Rack)

Chuck Norris was the most amazing human being that ever lived until Peter Hamm was born.  :)

 


#22 jroseberry

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 05:28 PM

really? Helix is as good at getting my mic into the computer as anything I've used, and it's better at getting guitar in than anything I've seen.

 

I'm guessing that post was referring to other (higher-end) audio interface specific features.

ie:  RME audio interfaces offer rock-solid performance with lower round-trip latency.

 

I run Helix (digital) AES into a Fireface UFX.  Best of both worlds.   ;)


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Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry

www.studiocat.com

jim@studiocat.com


#23 spikey

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 07:12 PM

I'm guessing that post was referring to other (higher-end) audio interface specific features.

ie:  RME audio interfaces offer rock-solid performance with lower round-trip latency.

 

I run Helix (digital) AES into a Fireface UFX.  Best of both worlds.   ;)

I run a UAD Apollo "quad" and prefer it as my Audio Interface, and yes I do think it is superior for one because of the multiple plugins you can add to it. But, I still use Helix as my main "guitar Interface". As always YMMV.  ;)


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Too much measuring and not enough music-making...    :lol: 

 


#24 jbuhajla

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 03:41 AM

fyi, just so I could say I tried it, I did.

Sorry, skyfirez1, but you are incorrect in this matter...

Me too. It sounds like a tremolo. I am glad skyfirez1 has found a tone he really enjoys though. If it works for you, go with it. 


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Disclaimer: All my opinions referencing the Helix (and all other products) are based upon my personal playing tastes and gear. I am not a high gain amp player and play primarily electrics with single coil pickups. Your tastes and gear will vary. I could be wrong about anything I am posting about. Consult your equipment's manual before attempting any of my suggestions. I am not an audio engineer, but I am an electrical engineer. I will still be wrong about many things despite my academic background. My first Line 6 product was the Ax212 modeling amp combo and floor board. Rock on...

Ephesians 5:19- ...addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart


#25 benlampard

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 06:46 AM

Scarlett should be set to inst, really, but I find with some hot output instruments it needs to be set to line. I believe it's just a pad, so as long as you're getting a decent signal level it doesn't really matter which you use


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#26 EricKnabe

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 04:43 AM

Eric did this work for you

I didn't try it yet, but I will. The problem has more or less been solved though I'm not sure how
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