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The Dream Rig, Let's Start The Dream And Rid The Nightmare


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#1 markcockerill

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:36 PM

Today, I have a dream. 

 

I brought the dream rig back into the house and decided to have one more go to set it up perfectly once and for all. It's been in the garage for months as I just could not get the system working well for live work and went back to analogue pedals and more recently back to the Vetta. This time I intend to build Rome in as long a time as it takes so I am starting with just the basics and slowly day by day adding and experimenting until I fully understand the system inside out and become more expert than an expert. I'm rather hoping that some of you reading this will be feeling the pain too and join me for the ride with your help, tips and ideas.

 

Here is my mission,

 

Create just 4 patches in one bank on the HD500, 1 clean, 2 different crunch and a distortion.

Use the top four switches to add in up to 4 stomp effects on each patch F1 to F4

Each patch will have a wah at the front and volume pedal at the end.

At home I will use the JTV69 at it can easily represent all the guitars I normally use live without having to empty the gig van.

I am using a top notch DMX cable to connect the HD500 to DT50 and regular short guitar cable from JTV to guitar. I have no need of VDI as I use G30 wireless live.

I gig in a successful 70's glam rock band and I need sounds to cover songs from the nice clean of Maggie May to the singing sweet sound I need for All The Young Dudes, I also need to cover the twang of Tiger Feet to the warmer crunch of T Rex stuff. You get the idea. Easy hey? you can bet your arse it isn't. So this is the perfect rig for me right?

 

Now I will point out at this point that I am quite a minimalist when it comes to effects as my ears are very sensitive to crappy effects and whatnot getting in the way of good natural tone. I truly believe that what I have here is a system to model amplifiers and as such that's pretty much how I intend to use it with just enough subtle effects being available to keep the rig from being too dry and dull. I'm truly blessed that I have an excellent drummer with a DW kit and a bass player with excellent gear and my guitar sounds need to sit in the mix beautifully balanced in frequency range coverage and volume to the rest of the band even when the singer plays 12 string.

 

Now, I am fully aware that what I hear from the amp here in my music workspace will not translate directly to the stage but I'm hoping that once I am finally happy here that I can at last take the rig to a rehearsal, give it a tweak or two and see if I really can improve over the Vetta.

I know the DT50 head and 4x12 cab with my analogue pedal board sounds amazing.

I know the Pod HD500 for recording sounds excellent and responds well to playing styles and capable of all patch/FX selections required for live use. 

I know the JTV 69 is an all round great guitar especially for recording though still sounds great live.

 

So why can't I make all three blow me away when I use them together at per their intended purpose?

 

 

Day 1

 

All hooked up.

Master volume on the DT50 head at 3 oclock.

Open HD Edit and start with a bank of 4 blank patches.

Patch A clean

At this stage I have selected the BF Double Nrm Pre ( I will try others over the weeks ahead.

I have 4 FX slots available before the amp model and 4 slots after the mixer selection to play with. This will be the same on all patches. They are set up in perfect order in the FX editor selection, Slot 1 at the top through to slot 8 at the bottom (no confusion in reading order of effects from top down which equates left to right.

 

Issue 1 (gonna need some ideas and thoughts on this one)

REVERB

I like a little subtle reverb on all my patches so after selecting the amp model, reverb is the next thing to choose.

Note: When I programmed the DT50 head via midi to work as a stand alone amp with my analogue pedal board I programmed a room reverb into the amp on channel one.

 

Sooooooo, now I have added a cavernous reverb to my clean patch on the PodHD500.

When I use the reverb on the HD500 I get cavernous reverb but if I use the reverb knob on the DT50 I get room reverb. Is this supposed to happen? 

This is the killer for me. If I add reverb with the knob on the amp not only is it a different type but the reverb sounds like it is just layered over the top of my guitar sound whereas the reverb on the HD500 sounds like my guitar is immersed in lushness which I prefer. Can someone add anything here?

Tomorrow, I will reprogram the amp with midi to have the same type of reverb as the one I have selected on the HD500 and will then come back and let you all know if there are still any differences in behaviour. I feel this is too important an issue for me to understand before I move on. If anyone does reply, can I just ask that we work on each issue in a linear fashion, the complicated stuff is miles ahead of us.

 

Many thanks for reading and I hope that over the next few weeks this thread can grow into something we can all share in building to at least understand our rigs and share with others. That is my dream.

 


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#2 oehman

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 06:09 PM

I like the basis of this topic - a 'let's start from the ground up' approach.

I'm not sure why you are hearing the room reverb on channel A when the 500hd is hooked up via L6 cable.

According to the manual:
• When the DT amp is in Channel A, the amplifier’s Reverb is disabled, however, the amplifier’s Channel A REVERB knob will control the POD HD REVERB Mix amount. This allows you to adjust the Reverb Mix from either device, but you’ll always be hearing the Reverb Model as configured on POD HD.

Maybe it is because you changed channel A reverb via midi? Did you try changing it back to the default?
I wouldn't think it should matter that you changed the reverb. It should still disable it and the reverb knob on the amp should control the reverb you've selected on the 500HD

2 other things to check - have you updated firmware on DT50 and 500HD & are you sure there is only 1 reverb in your 500HD effects? (Sorry, just trying to eliminate the obvious here....)
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#3 markcockerill

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 05:40 AM

Ok, many thanks for the reply. We're up and running.

 

I hooked up the DT50 via midi from the HD500 and reprogrammed the reverb to Particle verb as it is very extreme and not mistaken.

I programmed a room reverb into the HD500 on my patch A with only the amp model and reverb engaged.

Checked all cabling and both devices are up to date.

Removed midi leads after every event of programming and restarted both devices

 

Reverb knob on channel A of amp does not control HD500, however, all other knobs do.

both reverbs are working independently of each other.

 

I reprogrammed the amp to have no reverb midi CC 37 value 0

 

Reverb knob on amp still does not control HD500 reverb mix. Reverb on the HD500 works as it should.

 

Could someone repeat my method so far and post their findings. I need to know if I have issues which may or may not be responsible for my long term grief.


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#4 oehman

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:16 PM

Tested my rig tonight and got the same results as you.

Looks like the manual is wrong.
Not sure where we go from here.
I don't think this would be a service ticket request since i dont think our rigs are defective.
Anyone know how we report this to Line 6?
Having the reverb knob on the amp control the reverb on the 500HD would be cool.
Maybe they need to a firmware update.
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#5 silverhead

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 05:20 PM

...
Anyone know how we report this to Line 6?....

Ideascale would be the best place to report the manual error, and to suggest a change in behaviour.


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Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.
.... John Lennon

 

 


#6 oehman

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 06:29 PM

I just went back and re-read the manual. I guess that would be RRTFM.

The section that I cut and pasted in my previous post was from the section regarding 300HD & 400HD.

The section regarding 500HD reads:
• The DT amp REVERB knob for the active Channel independently controls the DT amp’s built-in Reverb - it does not adjust any Reverb model that you may have active within your POD HD Preset. Therefore, you’ll probably want to use either the DT amp’s Reverb or add a Reverb model to your POD HD Tone.

So our rig is operating as designed. Not sure why the reverb knob functions differently on the 500HD.

Sorry for the confusion.
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#7 markcockerill

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:26 AM

I'm pleased we cleared that up. Perhaps reading the manual would make good bedtime reading.

 

Before I move on with the rig I would appreciate thoughts on how the reverb appears to effect the sound differently in both cases, admittedly they were both different reverb models. Tonight I will program the amp with exactly the same reverb spec as is in the HD500 for the purpose of this exercise and report back whether I still detect a difference in nature of how the reverb layers into the sound. At the moment, something doesn't sound right with one of them. My guess is that some will prefer one over the other.


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#8 markcockerill

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:28 AM

Nice to have you watching over us Mr Silverhead


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#9 markcockerill

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:33 PM

I left it a bit late to reprogram the reverb in the DT50 head but its done. The parameters are exactly the same as in the PodHD500 for the reverb. Problem now is I can't play it any louder than whisper quiet to compare the sound of reverb from amp to Pod. I'll crank it in the morning.


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#10 markcockerill

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 07:56 AM

Update to the reverb issue.

 

My findings~:

Both PodHD500 and DT50 head are programmed with exactly the same reverb. I sent all cc messages from HD500 to DT for each of the reverb parameters.

 

With the HD there is a little tone sapping but not much and appears to my ears to enshrine the whole guitar sound with reverb.

With the DT, the tonal aspect of the reverb is exactly the same however, the reverb almost seems additive and sounds like some of the natural sound of the guitar is pushing through, maintaining tone.

 

So, I maxed out the reverb mix on both and sure enough you can actually hear a big difference between the two in what I have just said above.

 

My preference is the DT50 reverb but that's the only one I'm stuck with in a live setting unless I spend some serious time programming the HD500 with midi presets just to change reverb settings on the amp. In my view, reverb is just a nice effect to have subtley in the background and not which should be too bold and open to scutiny anyway.

 

So that closes the chapter on reverb. If anyone wishes to continue to comment with any aspect of my findings then please feel free.

 

Next stop, tone. I'll be looking for that nice clean tone that doesn't sound weak and feeble but has a glassy tone suitable for strat and paul guitars. Any suggestions regarding which amp model people prefer would be useful along with suggested amp settings.


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#11 jegler

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 06:53 PM

I use the amp's verb just to free up a block on the hd500. You can save different knob positions from the pod so different patches have diff amounts of verb.


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#12 spikey

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:59 PM

I got my dream rig when I sold the DT heads, HD pro, and bought an FX II....  ;)


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#13 fe911

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 03:55 PM

I'm confused about your setup. Are you hooking the amp to the hd500 with midi? Aren't you supposed to hook it up with the line6 link?
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#14 markcockerill

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 04:24 AM

I see how you could be confused. I am hooked up via the Line 6 Link and that is the whole aim of this excercise. To program the DT50 then midi cables are required and disconnection of the L6Link while I do so. Pain but necessary.


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