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Vetta Ii Metal Tones

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#1 conar2000

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 08:13 PM

Anybody got any they want to share? I've been tweaking the California Diamondplate model for the past 5 months trying to get that perfect live tone, and it's either too harsh and trebly or not able to cut through the mix. Not using the Armin mod or anything. The attached file is where I currently stand on the model. I use the 2.50 software and a Line 6 320 custom Celestion cab.

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#2 DickFoster

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 06:36 AM

Maybe start clean and build from there instead of from an existing patch that's trying to be something it isn't. .

Personally I don't care for most if any of the factory patches. It depends so much on the guitar driving it and all that, there is not a whole lot to share really,  Plus no one really knows what you're looking for in the end. It's all so subjective.   

 

Anybody got any they want to share? I've been tweaking the California Diamondplate model for the past 5 months trying to get that perfect live tone, and it's either too harsh and trebly or not able to cut through the mix. Not using the Armin mod or anything. The attached file is where I currently stand on the model. I use the 2.50 software and a Line 6 320 custom Celestion cab.


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#3 conar2000

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:00 AM

Maybe start clean and build from there instead of from an existing patch that's trying to be something it isn't. .

Personally I don't care for most if any of the factory patches. It depends so much on the guitar driving it and all that, there is not a whole lot to share really,  Plus no one really knows what you're looking for in the end. It's all so subjective.

Sorry man I was in a hurry. I'm using a Schecter Omen Extreme FR with the stock pickups (ordered a Dimarzio Tone Zone for the bridge), and I'm trying to get something in between Danzig's guitar tone on 6:66 Satan's Child or Mick Thompson's on All Hope Is Gone. I actually did start this preset from scratch, I didn't try to take it from any factory tone if that's what you mean. I'll try poking around with some different amp models.


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#4 DickFoster

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 08:30 AM

I think the best you can hope for is find something that is kinda close then dive in and tweak it till you get what you're after. Don't forget to play with the knobs on your guitar too.

Maybe you could start by looking up what kind of gear whomever it is that you're trying to emulate and start there. At least with their choice of amp. However what you hear on a recording is likely to be far and away different than anything you'd hear live.

Then there is that bit with a different guitar feeding it and all that kinda stuff to deal with on top of it all.

Sound is a really complicated thing with many components adding into the mix and anything less than actually sampling the original end result, guitar,effects, amp, speakers, player, enviroment, then reproducing that via a MIDI type guitar and MIDI sampling based type of MIDI DSP based memory table driven synth equipment is likely to result in nothing but a whole lot of frustration.

Attempting to emulate amplifiers and tone via electronic circuit modeling alone is actually a bit silly to start with. Not that the Vetta isn't a really decent and flexible amp because it is but I look at it as more of a tool to create your own sounds with. There is a whole lot of stuff in there to work with to that end.     


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#5 conar2000

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 06:49 PM

Turns out my pickups were the problem. I swapped out the stocks for some DiMarzio Tone Zones and that got me every tone I'd ever hoped for. Even my clean and Marshall emulations are better now. Heck, even the factory presets sound pretty good. For 70 bucks those make a huge difference.
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#6 brue58ski

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 03:55 PM

A favorite amp for many people has been the Line 6 Big Bottom.  It is a Triple Rect Preamp wired to a Rivera Los Lobottom power amp.  There are other Line 6 amps like this.  Insane is a Soldano preamp wired to a Dual Rectifier power amp.

This document shows (when the manual divulged the info) what preamp/power amp combinations the Line 6 amps are.

 

http://www.vettavill...& Mics 2004.pdf

 

 

 

 

 


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#7 DickFoster

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 08:21 AM

That's odd, the adjustablilty avaliable in the Vetta should have gotten you there if you were that close with your old pickups. Well at least you're happy now and that's what counts.

 

I wonder, if the sound you had was what the amp being modeled would have sounded like with your old pups driving it.  

 

Turns out my pickups were the problem. I swapped out the stocks for some DiMarzio Tone Zones and that got me every tone I'd ever hoped for. Even my clean and Marshall emulations are better now. Heck, even the factory presets sound pretty good. For 70 bucks those make a huge difference.


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#8 conar2000

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:26 PM

Oh I had no doubt tweaked it to where I wanted it. I did quite a bit of work on it after I posted here, but I got rid of the harshness and excess noise by switching pickups. The stocks had a lot of gain, but they weren't as mid range inclined as I wanted my tone to be. In the end, the mid and bass boost I got from the Tone Zone really helped me get all of my tones sounding better. It wasn't at all the Vetta's fault, with a good set of gear, you can get any tone you want from the Vetta, just don't expect to do that on cheap pickups and guitars. I just had a crappy pair of pickups. If the stock amp models are sounding thicker and much more realistic as well, you know you've spent 70 bucks well. Haha

 

Also, throwing some post compression on it didn't hurt. Really smoothed out the way the distortion flowed.


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#9 conar2000

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 01:31 PM

A favorite amp for many people has been the Line 6 Big Bottom.  It is a Triple Rect Preamp wired to a Rivera Los Lobottom power amp.  There are other Line 6 amps like this.  Insane is a Soldano preamp wired to a Dual Rectifier power amp.

This document shows (when the manual divulged the info) what preamp/power amp combinations the Line 6 amps are.

 

http://www.vettavill...& Mics 2004.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

That's a great idea. But now that I've got those pickups, I really don't need something with that much bottom end. I do have neighbors.


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#10 DickFoster

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 02:31 PM

Good to know.

I'm about ready to swap the pickups in my Ibanez archtop hollow body. It currently has their ACH pickups which are a bit shrill for my tastes but I've got a set of Super 58 Custom four wires that I intend to install and switch to the hilt.

They are supposed to be some very nice sounding mellow pickups but well rounded for a lot of stuff including jazz etc. With the split coil and the rest of the phasing etc. switching I should get just about anything I want out of it.

 

The next step will dropping a Roland GK3 Hexaphonic pickup on it and get into Rolands VG99 and or GR55 synths.

Wheeee, that should net all kinds of sonic stuff to play with.  

 

 

Oh I had no doubt tweaked it to where I wanted it. I did quite a bit of work on it after I posted here, but I got rid of the harshness and excess noise by switching pickups. The stocks had a lot of gain, but they weren't as mid range inclined as I wanted my tone to be. In the end, the mid and bass boost I got from the Tone Zone really helped me get all of my tones sounding better. It wasn't at all the Vetta's fault, with a good set of gear, you can get any tone you want from the Vetta, just don't expect to do that on cheap pickups and guitars. I just had a crappy pair of pickups. If the stock amp models are sounding thicker and much more realistic as well, you know you've spent 70 bucks well. Haha

 

Also, throwing some post compression on it didn't hurt. Really smoothed out the way the distortion flowed.


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#11 conar2000

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 05:47 PM

Good to know.
I'm about ready to swap the pickups in my Ibanez archtop hollow body. It currently has their ACH pickups which are a bit shrill for my tastes but I've got a set of Super 58 Custom four wires that I intend to install and switch to the hilt.
They are supposed to be some very nice sounding mellow pickups but well rounded for a lot of stuff including jazz etc. With the split coil and the rest of the phasing etc. switching I should get just about anything I want out of it.

The next step will dropping a Roland GK3 Hexaphonic pickup on it and get into Rolands VG99 and or GR55 synths.
Wheeee, that should net all kinds of sonic stuff to play with.

Coil taps have to be the greatest invention ever made for diverse musicians. Vintage route, eh? The guitar I have now is excellent. I don't see the use of modifying it any further. Next thing I buy will probably be a Rectifier cabinet, to see how the V30's compare to the customs. Not too big on the custom celestions. They tend to be rather trebly when cranked up a bit.
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#12 brue58ski

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 06:44 PM

That's a great idea. But now that I've got those pickups, I really don't need something with that much bottom end. I do have neighbors.

 

The "bottom" refers to the power amp being a Rivera Los Lobottom and not the actual sound.  It's a good sounding amp.


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#13 conar2000

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 10:54 AM


The "bottom" refers to the power amp being a Rivera Los Lobottom and not the actual sound. It's a good sounding amp.


I've played the amp model many times before, and it does have too much bottom end for my main guitar, since the pickups in it are based on adding bass and mid frequencies. It just sounds better to me when I use it with my 8 string. It's easy to get a Meshuggah tone out of it. As for the 6 string, favorite amp models are California Diamondplate and Modern Hi Gain. I also really like some of the Soldano models.
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#14 DickFoster

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:09 PM

It should be simple enough to brighten it up as needed. The amp has so much EQ and sonic control at your finger tips. 

I typically find bottom more elusive than top. I think that has more to do with the speakers though. I've been thinking of doing a little experiment by closing the back temporarily just to see. Maybe make it adjustable with hinges or a tuneable port or something along those lines.   

 

I've played the amp model many times before, and it does have too much bottom end for my main guitar, since the pickups in it are based on adding bass and mid frequencies. It just sounds better to me when I use it with my 8 string. It's easy to get a Meshuggah tone out of it. As for the 6 string, favorite amp models are California Diamondplate and Modern Hi Gain. I also really like some of the Soldano models.


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#15 conar2000

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:54 PM

It should be simple enough to brighten it up as needed. The amp has so much EQ and sonic control at your finger tips. 

I typically find bottom more elusive than top. I think that has more to do with the speakers though. I've been thinking of doing a little experiment by closing the back temporarily just to see. Maybe make it adjustable with hinges or a tuneable port or something along those lines.   

The cabinet I have has an abundance of bottom end. It rumbles the practice room. I like it, but sometimes it doesn't seem to cut through to well. Hence the reason I want to try a Rectifier cab or something with V30's or maybe some G12's. If you really want more bottom end, I'd try closing the back. There's also the option of getting a graphic equalizer, but that's somewhat pointless when you've already got one in the Vetta. What sort of speakers does your cab use?


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#16 DickFoster

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 08:40 AM

I have the Combo which has the known to be somewhat bright Celeston 12's. Good for rock, metal and that sort of stuff maybe but not really that great for jazzy kinda stuff. That's why I was going to fiddle around with closing up the back and try it. If no joy, I'll probably get around to something in a 15" someday. However, I'm not performing and don't intend to so it's no big deal really.

 

 

The cabinet I have has an abundance of bottom end. It rumbles the practice room. I like it, but sometimes it doesn't seem to cut through to well. Hence the reason I want to try a Rectifier cab or something with V30's or maybe some G12's. If you really want more bottom end, I'd try closing the back. There's also the option of getting a graphic equalizer, but that's somewhat pointless when you've already got one in the Vetta. What sort of speakers does your cab use?


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#17 conar2000

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 12:13 PM

I have the Combo which has the known to be somewhat bright Celeston 12's. Good for rock, metal and that sort of stuff maybe but not really that great for jazzy kinda stuff. That's why I was going to fiddle around with closing up the back and try it. If no joy, I'll probably get around to something in a 15" someday. However, I'm not performing and don't intend to so it's no big deal really.

Wait, if you're using the Combo Vetta (I'm assuming we're still talking about it), then it has the same speakers put in the 4x12 I use, which is the Line 6 cab made for the Spiders. That's odd, considering I often have too much bass. Unless of course you're referring to the G12 series Celestions, which from my experience haven't been too bright. 


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#18 DickFoster

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 06:35 AM

Well a different amp and different cab could make all the difference. I know they are 12" Celestons custom made for Line 6. I'd go look at them but right now I have it packed up since I'm going though that home selling, buying and moving thrash right now. Egads what a PITA. It's way too much like work.  


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