Jump to content


Photo

Autotune


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#1 alsithi

alsithi

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 96 posts

Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:05 AM

Now there are a number of autotune systems available for guitar, including software versions, is there ANY possibility that this kind of system can be written into the JTV programming?


  • 0

#2 clay-man

clay-man

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 654 posts

Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:35 AM

What do you mean? If you want an Autotune guitar, then you're probably gonna need to buy an autotune guitar. It's not like the Variax is a computer you can install software that you like on it. It's a product, and they'll obviously put the software/firmware that goes with the guitar, on the guitar.

 

While Autotune's intonation and instant retune thing is kind of cool, I think it makes for a lazy guitarist. There's something that makes me want to have a guitar on a proper tuning than let a computer digitally keep it in the correct tuning. Alt tunings are fine, but constantly pressing a button to digitally retune your guitar is just lazy.

 

That's just me. 

 

I also think the Variax has the best modeling out on the market.


  • 1

For a minute there, I lost myself.

Radiohead_bear-728286%5B1%5D.png 


#3 tomb68

tomb68

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 43 posts
  • LocationTejas

Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:49 AM

I think it is a legitimate question. If the variax can transpose on the fly already why not have it intonate as well? It seems like one of the biggest markets for this technology is session guitarist or pit musicians and time is money for both of those groups. If are playing guitar in a live situation (theatre for instance), a guitar that can digitally correct it's pitch on demand is a huge asset, plus the audience isn't impressed that you can tune your own guitar, they came to see a show. 


  • 0

#4 alsithi

alsithi

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 96 posts

Posted 05 October 2013 - 05:50 AM

I don't see any difference between pressing a button to tune the guitar either to concert pitch or an alt tuning. All I am asking is whether it is a possibility that Line6 could provide this facility.

 

I would rather have my guitar in tune at all times regardless of the method of achieving this. Both my 300 and 69 are less reliable than previous guitars in this regard. My last gigging guitar was an Ibanez Saber and both that and even my lowly Marlin Sidewinder almost never went out of tune during sets.


  • 0

#5 phil_m

phil_m

    Uber Guru

  • Line 6 Expert
  • 5277 posts
  • LocationMinneapolis, MN

Posted 05 October 2013 - 06:43 AM

I personally would be kind of surprised to see Line 6 go down that road. It's probably feasible, but right now Line 6 isn't recognizing the absolute pitch with its algorithms. It's shifting based on relative pitch. So it would mean re-writing that whole bit. Adding it would undoubtedly in latency a little bit, and it seems that Line 6 wouldn't want to sacrifice feel for this feature. Perhaps it's something they'll do in the future with faster processors, but I'd not hold my breath for it now.


  • 0
Time is a train
Makes the future the past
Leaves you standing in the station
Your face pressed up against the glass

 


#6 GearFarm

GearFarm

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts

Posted 05 October 2013 - 07:45 AM

I'd like to see it.

I played the Peavey AT and the auto tune function worked pretty good.

Its not a question of being lazy and not knowing how to tune your guitar, its that your guitar is in tune all over the neck...any chord in any position sounds good.

The Variax is like a computer and hopefully if they see enough demand they could impliment the auto tune function in a firmware update.


  • 0

#7 rmaginnis

rmaginnis

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 28 posts
  • LocationEdmonton,Alberta.Canada.

Posted 05 October 2013 - 08:21 AM

I have to agree that keeping your guitar precisely in tune is very important.With all due respect for me there's something about the mechanics of an instrument that helps to bring me closer to it.Like tuning it manually, cleaning, intonation etc.

But it would be great option.


  • 0

#8 ozbadman

ozbadman

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1689 posts

Posted 05 October 2013 - 08:41 AM

Now there are a number of autotune systems available for guitar, including software versions, is there ANY possibility that this kind of system can be written into the JTV programming?

 

Can you not already achieve this with a midi device? I would think a GK-3 and a GR-55 might be able to do this, or if you're into software the fishman triple play might do this also.


  • 0

#9 clay-man

clay-man

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 654 posts

Posted 05 October 2013 - 01:09 PM

I personally would be kind of surprised to see Line 6 go down that road. It's probably feasible, but right now Line 6 isn't recognizing the absolute pitch with its algorithms. It's shifting based on relative pitch. So it would mean re-writing that whole bit. Adding it would undoubtedly in latency a little bit, and it seems that Line 6 wouldn't want to sacrifice feel for this feature. Perhaps it's something they'll do in the future with faster processors, but I'd not hold my breath for it now.

 

I think they should maybe rewrite their pitch shifter function a bit. I'm not familiar with Variax HD, but if it's still doing warble with hammer-ons and pull-offs, then I think they need to fix that.

 

That's something I will argue that Variax does need improvement on.

I know latency is an issue, but they need to look into it a bit more and try to find fixes for that stuff.

 

 

I don't see any difference between pressing a button to tune the guitar either to concert pitch or an alt tuning. All I am asking is whether it is a possibility that Line6 could provide this facility.

 

The alt tuning on a Variax requires you to stay in tune physically, while the autotune function doesn't care if you're in tune at all and just needs the press of a button.

It IS cool, but it's also lazy, and I don't think it's a healthy habit either. Your tension will be off if you rely on that all the time.

 

Maybe it's just me, but that's the breaking point where the whole traditionalist technophobia starts coming in. I love technology, but that's just too lazy. Even the Gibson Robot tuners would be better than that, because it's actually tuning it back physically.


  • 0

For a minute there, I lost myself.

Radiohead_bear-728286%5B1%5D.png 


#10 TheRealZap

TheRealZap

    Uber Guru

  • Line 6 Expert
  • 14810 posts
  • LocationClemmons, NC USA

Posted 06 October 2013 - 06:17 AM

It would be great if they pulled this off... someone needs to throw this on idea scale... i don't think it's likely... but ideascale is where you need to post it if you want it to get any traction.


  • 0

#11 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 814 posts

Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:20 PM

I would be afraid that slight pitch shifting to retune the out of tune strings would create problems rather than solve them.  This is done by resampling and it probably doesn't have infinite resolution.


  • 0

#12 alsithi

alsithi

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 96 posts

Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:54 PM

It would be great if they pulled this off... someone needs to throw this on idea scale... i don't think it's likely... but ideascale is where you need to post it if you want it to get any traction.

I've submitted an idea as you suggested- well if you dont ask, you don't get!


  • 1

#13 alsithi

alsithi

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 96 posts

Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:46 PM

I find it odd that my ideascale post has attracted negative votes. Who in their right mind would OBJECT to having a guitar with the ability to tune itself?


  • 0

#14 clay-man

clay-man

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 654 posts

Posted 07 October 2013 - 03:12 PM

I would be afraid that slight pitch shifting to retune the out of tune strings would create problems rather than solve them.  This is done by resampling and it probably doesn't have infinite resolution.

 

pitch shifting is always done by some sort of resampling and resetting the time at a set frequency, and that set frequency is what causes latency, honestly.

 

Through that, you need to do some code to keep formants/timbre from shifting with the pitch so that it sounds natural, as well as smoothing out the time resets without it sounding weird.

 

warbling will be caused by the algorithms not knowing how to treat the input because it doesn't know the information it's reading.


  • 0

For a minute there, I lost myself.

Radiohead_bear-728286%5B1%5D.png 


#15 TheRealZap

TheRealZap

    Uber Guru

  • Line 6 Expert
  • 14810 posts
  • LocationClemmons, NC USA

Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:24 PM

I added a + FWIW


  • 0

#16 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 814 posts

Posted 07 October 2013 - 05:54 PM

I would MUCH rather see the effort made to further improve the existing pitch shifting for alt tunings and for 12 string.  It's good but far from great. 


  • 2

#17 clay-man

clay-man

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 654 posts

Posted 07 October 2013 - 07:04 PM

I would MUCH rather see the effort made to further improve the existing pitch shifting for alt tunings and for 12 string.  It's good but far from great. 

 

Like I said, they mostly need to get rid of warbling all together. It hurts tne guitar player not being able to do techniques because the pitch shifter can't read it.

I think it would fix 12 strings as well.


  • 0

For a minute there, I lost myself.

Radiohead_bear-728286%5B1%5D.png 


#18 alsithi

alsithi

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 96 posts

Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:43 AM

If autotune is feasible, and at the and of the day that is the only question I am asking...IF it can be done, then you only have to look at the facilities offered by the Peavey AT system to see that it would eliminate a lot of the other problems people are talking about. Their software offers the same kind of tuning options that the JTV does but apparently without some of the drawbacks.

 

If Line6's answer is 'No it isn't going to happen' then that's fine- I just want a response either way.


  • 0

#19 ur2funky

ur2funky

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 114 posts

Posted 08 October 2013 - 10:17 AM

I find it odd that my ideascale post has attracted negative votes. Who in their right mind would OBJECT to having a guitar with the ability to tune itself?

 

I didn't post a negative vote, as I'm not even able to access ideascale to read your post, but I would be opposed to Autotune ala Peavey's system.  From what I understand, slight vibrato technique is removed with Autotune.  The auto pitch corrects it.  Vibrato is a big part of the expressive qualities of the guitar to me.  

 

It would be great to hear every chord ring in perfect pitch, but at the expense of vibrato?


  • 0

#20 TheRealZap

TheRealZap

    Uber Guru

  • Line 6 Expert
  • 14810 posts
  • LocationClemmons, NC USA

Posted 08 October 2013 - 10:26 AM

I don't think we'd get an official response, either way... too speculative.

but there could also be other things in the way aside from technical capability... what if peavey/autotune have an exclusive agreement of some sort? (as an example)

would it be worth it to develop similar capabilities internal to line6? (they've probably got a headstart on this to be honest with current capabilities)

 

with the limitations that funky mentioned, i  would hope it would be per model/defeatable. 

 i still think that the tech is intriguing, and worth finding a "right way" to do it.


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users