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Raw Piezo Sound


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#1 or8ital

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:04 AM

Is it possible to get just the raw piezo sound so the Variax can be used with something like an Aura Spectrum? Thanks.
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#2 silverhead

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:28 AM

No - the piezos apply when the Variax is in Model mode, and then it is using one of its internal models.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'raw piezo sound'. The piezos don't produce sound. Unless there's a guitar being modeled by the Variax, isn't that analogous to asking whether a 'real' guitar can be connected to your Aura Spectrum without the guitar producing its mag-pickup generated sound?

 

The piezos transmit waveforms from the string vibrations to the internal DSP processor. Are you asking that the guitar (any guitar - whether real or modeled Variax) be able to somehow output the raw string vibration wave-forms without having processed it, either by DSP modeling or by its onboard pickups? And if it could, does you Aura Spectrum handle that sort of 6-channel input (one channel per string)?


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#3 or8ital

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:05 AM

Raw non modeled signal like you would get from typical piezo pickups.

Thanks for the reply.
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#4 TheRealZap

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:17 AM

sounds like a good idea, it's currently not possible... you should submit it to: http://line6.ideascale.com/


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#5 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:23 AM

There is no way that I know of to get the individual string outputs but it should be possible to have an option to put out the un-modeled sum of the piezos out on the 1/4 inch.


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#6 johnnyayyy

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 10:25 AM

Is it possible to get just the raw piezo sound so the Variax can be used with something like an Aura Spectrum? Thanks.

 

 

You could modify your guitar to allow you to select between routing the piezos to the Variax electronics or directly to the existing 1/4" jack with a 6 pole double throw switch or a simple on off switch with a 6pdt relay.

 

This will void your warranty but is possible and would not be difficult or expensive.

 

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#7 TheRealZap

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 10:28 AM

let us know when you get the prototype sorted... love to see the video!  :lol:


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#8 johnnyayyy

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 10:49 AM

let us know when you get the prototype sorted... love to see the video!  :lol:

 

 

I could easily do it if I wanted to but have no need for raw piezo output - also I will not be doing any mods at all on my JTV til the warranty expires, at that time I will be swapping out the bridge for a Graph Tech.

 

To wire for raw piezo output: On the relay connect the 6 hot wires from the piezos to the middle strip of 6 pins, connect the 6 top pins to the same place the piezos were connected before on the variax , sum the 6 bottom pins with a bus wirre and run a connection from there to the 1/4" jack hot. Add a 9v battery and a simple on/off switch, toggling power to the relay on and off selects between sending the piezos to the variax guts or raw to the 1/4" out.

 

If you choose the 6pdt slider switch instead of the 6pdt powered relay:

 

1. connect the piezo hot wires to pins 2,5,8,11,14,and 17

 

2. connect pins 1,4,7,10,13,and 16 to the normal conncetions on the avariax board.

3. sum pins 3,6,9,12,15,and 18 with a bus wire and connect to hot on 1/4" out

 

Easy-peasy, shouldn't take more than an hour or so.

 

If you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself any competent guitar tech should be able to do it for you.


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#9 johnnyayyy

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 10:56 AM

Is it possible to get just the raw piezo sound so the Variax can be used with something like an Aura Spectrum? Thanks.

 

There is an easier way to get what you want that requires no modifications to the guitar.

 

Simply roll back and reflash the firmware your guitar a few times, for quickest results use the Workbench dongle/hub - eventually you will receive an error code and all the modeled sounds will disappear, leaving you with pure, raw piezo output.

 

Enjoy!


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#10 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:25 AM

The piezos need a very high impedance charge amp buffer before being summed together. 


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#11 clay-man

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:48 AM

I always thought this might be a little nice to do. You have the piezos, so why not be able to use them normally? Would add more functionality to the guitar. All they need to do is bypass modeling. In fact, it would be awesome if you could use the raw piezo sound with alt tunings.

 

The closest you can get right now is probably the acoustic sounds, but obviously it's still pretty different than the raw piezo signal.


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#12 TheRealZap

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:56 AM

I still think YOU should do it!

 

3C4QVZw.gif

 

because you can.....

 

I could easily do it if I wanted to but have no need for raw piezo output - also I will not be doing any mods at all on my JTV til the warranty expires, at that time I will be swapping out the bridge for a Graph Tech.

 

To wire for raw piezo output: On the relay connect the 6 hot wires from the piezos to the middle strip of 6 pins, connect the 6 top pins to the same place the piezos were connected before on the variax , sum the 6 bottom pins with a bus wirre and run a connection from there to the 1/4" jack hot. Add a 9v battery and a simple on/off switch, toggling power to the relay on and off selects between sending the piezos to the variax guts or raw to the 1/4" out.

 

If you choose the 6pdt slider switch instead of the 6pdt powered relay:

 

1. connect the piezo hot wires to pins 2,5,8,11,14,and 17

 

2. connect pins 1,4,7,10,13,and 16 to the normal conncetions on the avariax board.

3. sum pins 3,6,9,12,15,and 18 with a bus wire and connect to hot on 1/4" out

 

Easy-peasy, shouldn't take more than an hour or so.

 

If you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself any competent guitar tech should be able to do it for you.


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#13 or8ital

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:01 PM

There is an easier way to get what you want that requires no modifications to the guitar.

Simply roll back and reflash the firmware your guitar a few times, for quickest results use the Workbench dongle/hub - eventually you will receive an error code and all the modeled sounds will disappear, leaving you with pure, raw piezo output.

Enjoy!


Yes. Noticed this during a FW upgrade which suggests it can be done and it's software blocking it. I would want the option to use it but not at the expensive of giving up the models.
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#14 johnnyayyy

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:53 PM

The piezos need a very high impedance charge amp buffer before being summed together. 

 

I have summed multiple piezos in the past (on an upright bass) then sent the sum to an onboard preamp with no problems... and the piezos in GraphTech Tuneomatics I used on my transplants were summed from the factory,  the 6-in-1-out summing connector had to be removed and the wires split/stripped to work in the Variaxtransplants. Don't know what apllication that 6-in-1-out summing connector is made for but this tells me the piezos need nothing pre-sum... maybe I will do this with one of my GraphTechs when I get a chance. For Science.


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#15 johnnyayyy

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:01 PM

I still think YOU should do it!

 

3C4QVZw.gif

 

because you can.....

 

Erm, okay... are you implying that you believe this simple modification cannot be done?

 

I don't know what that .gif means (are you the guy with the gas pump or am I...?) and I have no interest in adding this feature to my guitar (the mods I will be spending my time on post-warranty period are 1.a new bridge, 2.a Bigsby, and 3.a different neck - probably a nice Ibanez RG) but I would be willing to mod your guitar in this manner if you like.

 

For a modest fee, of course.

 

Feel free to PM me if you are serious.


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#16 TheRealZap

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:19 PM

was just making a joke... sort of a challenge... the gif was just a play on "doing it"

:)


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#17 clay-man

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:56 PM

I still think bypassing modeling via firmware > switch that physically bypasses the variax processing hardware.

Piezo alt tunings, you guys!


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#18 johnnyayyy

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:32 PM

I still think bypassing modeling via firmware > switch that physically bypasses the variax processing hardware.

Piezo alt tunings, you guys!

 

I agree, that would be better.

 

Also I wouldn't have to do all that soldering on Zap's guitar :P

 

I think this idea was posted on ideascale a while back, anyone who thinks it would be useful should go there and vote it up or repost it - the neutral body with a "no pickup" option should do what you are after.


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#19 clay-man

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:57 PM

I agree, that would be better.

 

Also I wouldn't have to do all that soldering on Zap's guitar :P

 

I think this idea was posted on ideascale a while back, anyone who thinks it would be useful should go there and vote it up or repost it - the neutral body with a "no pickup" option should do what you are after.

 

We already have neutral body, so why not have a neutral pickup, or piezo pickup mode that also bypasses the pickup modeling? While I think the acoustic models sound way better than a raw piezo sound on most piezo guitars for acoustic sound, I think it's still applicable and can be used if someone wants that sound out of their guitar.


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