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Amp A & Amp B Hd500 Into Dt25


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#1 oehman

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 05:08 AM

Is there a way to get the the DT 25 to use 'Either' Amp A or Amp B in a dual tone preset from the HD500?

 

I've set up a dual tone preset in the HD500 and assigned the amp blocks to the same footswitch on the HD500. Hitting the footswtich turns off Amp A and turns on Amp B. The purpose of this would be to set Amp B channel slightly higher using the same Amp Pre to get a boost. Or it could be used to to toggle between 2 different amp block tones.

 

Everything works ok as long as I have Amp A selected in the HD500, but when I hit the switch, the DT25 acts as if no amp block were selected and changes itself to Channel B on the amp.

 

 


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#2 radatats

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 06:28 AM

That is exactly what it will do as per the manual.  Set channel B on the DT to the exact settings you want including volume, just as it is in your patch and when you switch from amp A in the patch it will switch to amp B in the DT25.  Just remember that the channel B settings will have to be set manually every time as the patch will not set them for you.


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#3 oehman

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 08:31 AM

Unfortunately disabling the amp block to get the DT25 to switch to Channel B isn't a good option for me.

I am using 4-5 different amp Pre's,in my setlist. So adjusting the settings on Channel B of the amp to match and add channel volume would be a huge PIA.

 

The Dt25 Connectivity manual is a little vague about the SETUP - L6 LINK:CONTROL:

You can configure the HD500 to have the DT25 use Amp A or Amp B as the basis for Channel A. But then there is a section that reads:

 

• MIDI CH XX: Select any available MIDI Channel, other than the MIDI Channels auto-assigned to Amp Model A & Amp Model B, to set the respective DT amp’s L6 LINK - MIDI Channel. By setting more than one DT amplifier to the same MIDI Channel, their front panel controls will be synced.

 

But I think that only applies to situations using more than one DT25 amp.

 

Is anyone using dual amp tones our of the HD500 into a Dt amplifier? I guess I just don't understand how the DT25 handles dual amp tones.


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#4 TheRealZap

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 08:46 AM

why not just have the exact same tone with the different amp you want loaded up in a separate preset next to the one you are using? not exactly a difficult issue.

 

lots of people use dual amps with a single DT. (i'm generally not one...)


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#5 oehman

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 09:07 AM

I guess it's an organizational thing for my setlist.
I've got a preset for all 40 songs that my band plays and I just rearrange the setlist in my Pod to match the order of the songs we'll play that night. A few of the patches are identical, but I like having the song name displayed on the Pod. And I just hit the next preset up to get to the next song.
I'd like to add a boost to the presets for solos. But I'm not really sold on the sound of some of the other options or the expression pedal method of boosting.

I had a Mesa amp with boost footswitch that you could set the level for. Awesome feature - so I'm trying to recreate it with the dream rig...

Being able to toggle between amps in a dual setup would be a great way to get the exact tone with a boost an not mess with my setlist system.

I think there are so many ways to configure the HD500 & DT 25, that it always leaves me looking for a better way to handle what I want to do!


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#6 stumblinman

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 12:04 PM

Unfortunately disabling the amp block to get the DT25 to switch to Channel B isn't a good option for me.
I am using 4-5 different amp Pre's,in my setlist. So adjusting the settings on Channel B of the amp to match and add channel volume would be a huge PIA.

The Dt25 Connectivity manual is a little vague about the SETUP - L6 LINK:CONTROL:
You can configure the HD500 to have the DT25 use Amp A or Amp B as the basis for Channel A. But then there is a section that reads:

• MIDI CH XX: Select any available MIDI Channel, other than the MIDI Channels auto-assigned to Amp Model A & Amp Model B, to set the respective DT amp’s L6 LINK - MIDI Channel. By setting more than one DT amplifier to the same MIDI Channel, their front panel controls will be synced.

But I think that only applies to situations using more than one DT25 amp.

Is anyone using dual amp tones our of the HD500 into a Dt amplifier? I guess I just don't understand how the DT25 handles dual amp tones.


Dual amp tones use the topology chosen for the "A" channel amp. As far as using dual amps and toggling with a foot switch between them in a patch, I can't say I've tried that.
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#7 chuberto

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 04:23 PM

Old thread I know but did you ever get anywhere?

 

I have recently set up some HD500/dt25 patches that do (I think) what you are looking for. To check, are you looking to get a preset where one of the 5-8 footswitches will toggle between different two amp blocks, basically emulating a two channel amp? Does that even make any sense??!!

 

The method I use ends up taking a fair bit of processing and effects blocks, so you can't get carried away. I also can't remember the full settings but will look if this is what you are looking for.

 

Basically, I put Amp Model A in the left signal path and Amp Model B in the right but output both to the same DT amp. I use a volume pedal block in path A and another in path B, before each amp, each set to zero, one turned on and one turned off, each set to be switched on and off by pedal 6 with no expression pedal control. When you press pedal 6, it will switch one volume pedal on (muting the signal as it's set to zero) and the other off (allow the signal through).  

 

Something that looks a little like this -

 

                         Volume - Amp A

Guitar - Wah <                              > Chorus - Digital Delay - Plate Reverb - Output

                          Voume - Amp B

 

I found that I can have wah, simple mod pedal, digital delay and plate reverb with the two amp blocks fine but there's too little processor power for a fancy spring reverb or tape delay. The actual volume pedals effects use practically no processor power anyway (I tested this out), it's the two amps that make the difference. Obviously, using the dt25 I am able to use Amp Pre Models to further reduce CPU usage.


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#8 radatats

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 05:19 PM

I really think you are overthinking your problem.  All you really want to do is get a clean boost right?  It makes no sense to me to add another amp and waste all that DSP just for that.  I really think you should reconsider the expression pedal linked to channel volume as that takes no DSP or FX block to implement.  I have set up patches with multiple amp and effect settings all linked to the pedal so with just that one pedal I can go from a clean amp with mids, highs and volume boosted, slight delay and big reverb to a big drive, lower mids, highs and volume, more delay mix and feedback, less reverb and compression adjustments.  It really is incredible what you can do with it.  There seems to be no end to the number of things you can link at the same time.  So one exp pedal can completely change your tone AND give you varying settings in between,  I have attached a patch I made for you to check out.  It is specifically for the DT with a pre model but the concept is the same.

 

If you have the blocks available and you just want a volume boost,  use two volume pedals in a row.  Set one to 75% and one to 100%, one off, one on and set them both to the same footswitch, no expression pedal.  Adjust the percentage differences until you get the boost you want.  If you put them at the end of your chain, it should be totally transparent.

 

 

 (download and change .txt to .h5e)


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#9 radatats

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 05:35 PM

Old thread I know but did you ever get anywhere?

 

I have recently set up some HD500/dt25 patches that do (I think) what you are looking for. To check, are you looking to get a preset where one of the 5-8 footswitches will toggle between different two amp blocks, basically emulating a two channel amp? Does that even make any sense??!!

 

The method I use ends up taking a fair bit of processing and effects blocks, so you can't get carried away. I also can't remember the full settings but will look if this is what you are looking for.

 

Basically, I put Amp Model A in the left signal path and Amp Model B in the right but output both to the same DT amp. I use a volume pedal block in path A and another in path B, before each amp, each set to zero, one turned on and one turned off, each set to be switched on and off by pedal 6 with no expression pedal control. When you press pedal 6, it will switch one volume pedal on (muting the signal as it's set to zero) and the other off (allow the signal through).  

 

Something that looks a little like this -

 

                         Volume - Amp A

Guitar - Wah <                              > Chorus - Digital Delay - Plate Reverb - Output

                          Voume - Amp B

 

I found that I can have wah, simple mod pedal, digital delay and plate reverb with the two amp blocks fine but there's too little processor power for a fancy spring reverb or tape delay. The actual volume pedals effects use practically no processor power anyway (I tested this out), it's the two amps that make the difference. Obviously, using the dt25 I am able to use Amp Pre Models to further reduce CPU usage.

 

I want to try the above dual amp trick but not sure what you mean by output both to the same DT amp.  Can you explain how you do that?  

 

If this works and I link both VOL blocks to the expression pedal I should be able to blend them too!   :P


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#10 chuberto

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 04:40 AM

Attached File  WP_20131216_001.jpg   62.03KB   4 downloadsAttached File  WP_20131216_002.jpg   80.85KB   1 downloadsAttached File  WP_20131216_003.jpg   78.46KB   1 downloadsAttached File  WP_20131216_004.jpg   71.85KB   1 downloads

 

This works nicely for me. Importantly, both amps are panned to the left in the mixer block as per the picture.

 

Also, I realised that I do still have enough processor power for spring reverb!


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#11 radatats

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 05:47 AM

I don't understand this.  According to the manual, what you just set up in those pics describes how your signal is fed to multiple DT amps, all chained together with L6 link.  You have set channel A to send the left signal only to the first DT in the chain and channel B to send the left signal only to the second DT in the chain.  Are you now telling us that both channels are actually being sent to just one DT amp and are selectable within the patch?


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#12 edstar1960

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 06:43 AM

It looks like the screens are showing default settings for L6 LINK AUDIO and CONTROL.

 

If there is only one DT25 amp connected then the settings for L6 LINK AUDIO are indicating that output from both the LEFT and RIGHT channels of the mixer stage will be sent to the DT25 (1: AMP)

L6 LINK CONTROL shows that the connected DT25 will set it's TOPOLOGY to follow the amp selected as AMP A on the HD500.

The MIXER settings are indicating that only the LEFT channel will be sent as it is set to 100% LEFT thereby muting the RIGHT channel output - so you will only be getting HALF the output signal from the amp.  Remember both amps from path A and B will output STEREO L/R signals and these get split at the MIXER to the output L/R.  It does not make any sense to me to mute the RIGHT channel for the above patch.

 

From what I can see - the DT25 will use one TOPOLOGY matching AMP A on the HD500 (in this case JTM45) - and you can then flip flop between different pre-amps using the patch by using the VOLUME pedal switch trick to mute one of the pre-amps.


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#13 radatats

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 07:11 AM

Very interesting.  I have been under the firm impression that you cannot do dual amps with one DT but I am going to take a new look at it tonight.  I don't care about power amp settings as I pretty much have a preferred topology that I use with all preamps.  I have never been able to get both pre's to work with my DT before but I will try the double VOL pedals tonight linked to the expression pedal to both switch them and also to blend them... 

 

Epic WIN if this works...   :)


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#14 chuberto

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 04:05 PM

I'm not interested in any theoretical analysis of this. It works for what it does, I'm not claiming it to have a Mesa and a Marshall in one patch. It emulates having a two channel amp, where both channels are of similar nature.

 

Regarding the muting of the right channel, I don't know. I have a Telecaster Variax transplant as well as other 'normal' guitars. Some of my patches route the Variax acoustic sound to my FRFR in combination with the magnetic pickups going to the DT. There're no volume issues between patches and I'm not lacking any overall volume with the DT25. It has no issue with a full live band and at home, it's practically unusable unless switched to LVM (ie. 'It's too loud, turn it down a nano turn and it goes off').


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#15 radatats

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 04:06 PM

Well totally surprised but it works!  Set up a dual amp with Blackface and Plexi and linked expression pedal to channel volume.  Amps swap just fine but the blend will need further work.  As noted before, the Power amp stays set for Amp A but that is fine with me.  I am gonna have fun playing with this!!!


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#16 chuberto

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 04:11 PM

I never blend but it's pretty cool for avoiding having to use an OD to boost (which I struggle to get to sound completely neutral) or using another preset (thus loosing any delay/reverb tails).


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#17 Metalchef

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 10:04 PM

I thought one of the last two updates fixed the issue of delay and reverb trails when switching. I also believe it was an option To turn on or off in the set up menu.
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#18 chuberto

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 01:52 AM

That doesn't relate to the scenario I'm referring to. I'm referring to the tails when you change presets, which definitely kill the tails.


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#19 edstar1960

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 01:59 AM

I'm not interested in any theoretical analysis of this. It works for what it does, I'm not claiming it to have a Mesa and a Marshall in one patch. It emulates having a two channel amp, where both channels are of similar nature.

 

Regarding the muting of the right channel, I don't know. I have a Telecaster Variax transplant as well as other 'normal' guitars. Some of my patches route the Variax acoustic sound to my FRFR in combination with the magnetic pickups going to the DT. There're no volume issues between patches and I'm not lacking any overall volume with the DT25. It has no issue with a full live band and at home, it's practically unusable unless switched to LVM (ie. 'It's too loud, turn it down a nano turn and it goes off').

 

Hi chuberto - firstly, thank you very much for sharing this idea with the rest of us, it is very much appreciated!  :)  If it works and it produces the tone and sound that you want then that is all that matters.  It is the end result that is important.   :)     

Secondly, understanding how you get the end result is necessary if you don't like it and want to tweak it, or if it is bad and you need to fix it.    You are happy so there is no problem for you.  Which is great!  :)

 

Just for clarity, it is important to note that the illustrated L6 LINK AUDIO screen instructs the patch to send the output from both L and R channels summed to MONO to the DT25, therefore, there is no need to pan both amps paths A and B to L. You can leave the default MIXER settings (which are; path A panned hard L and path B panned hard R) and you will still get both amps output to the DT25. 

Note: If you use the patch defined with both paths panned hard L, ensure any stereo fx used is summed to MONO by choosing appropriate fx chain order OR change the patch to use default mixer settings (A hard L and B hard R), then you won't be missing any parts from the output signal.

 

EDIT; Just for clarity, I should not really use the word panning although the mixer controls are labelled PAN A and PAN B, as the mixer does not pan the signal from L to R, instead it adjusts the BALANCE or VOLUME of both L and R channels from both A and B paths.  100% L means you only hear the L channel summed from both A+B paths and the R is muted. 100% R means you only hear the R channel summed from both A+B paths and L is muted.  A value of 0% will mean you hear BOTH L + R equally summed from paths A+B which means you also get double the output volume!   In between 100% to 0% for either L or R means you get a mix of both L+R channels summed from both A+B paths weighted according to the channel and value chosen.


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#20 chuberto

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 10:59 AM

Thinking about the panning, I think it's a left over from an old patch. I had a few where I fed my cajon by a mic to channel B, through the looper and out to PA, an acoustic sound from my Variax  to PA by the effects loop send and lastly the magnetic pickups to the DT25. It all got a bit complicated now I think of it!


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