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Apparently This Is How It's Supposed To Sound? I Think It's Unusable, I'd Appreciate Second Opinions.

distortion fizz clipping

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#41 phil_m

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:36 PM

 I won't say that I don't hear it... I do hear a certain amount of fizz or hash or whatever you want to call it, but I don't find it all that objectionable. I hear the same sort of thing if I plug a guitar with humbuckers into a Fender amp a lot of times, too, though. So I guess my feeling is that there are some people who seem to be really bothered by this for whatever reason, but thankfully, I'm not one of them.

 

One thing I would ask that original poster is if he tried switching Input 2 to something other than "Guitar" or "Same". That would make a difference in the gain staging through the unit, definitely.


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#42 BlueBrain

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 04:36 PM

I did 2 more recording, this time with the Deluxe normal channel, one is done through the VDI input and the other one through the Guitar In (VDI disconnected using batteries on my VAX 700):

 

https://www.dropbox..../Deluxe VDI.mp3

 

https://www.dropbox....e Guitar In.mp3

 

the settings:

 

mic: 4038 RBN

 

drive: 50%

bass: 6%

mid: 50%

treble: 50%

presence: 0%

 

amp volume: 100%

 

mixer block: both channels at +6 dB

 

the guitar models used are the same as in the previous posted recording in the same order

 

---------------------------

 

again, I can't hear any digital clipping, crossover distortion or else.... both when connected through the VDI and the Guitar In inputs..

 

I have to assume that probably you have a problem or interference somewhere in your equipment that must be investigated..

maybe also that your POD is faulty, I don't know, and you were unlucky to try 2 faulty PODs in a row..

 

what I know is that I don't have your same problem

 

Very interesting - I'll take my HD 500 back out of the box this weekend, will set it up again with exact settings matching yours & will see what comes of it.  

Thanks for the time you've taken to help!


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#43 clay-man

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 04:58 PM

I get that sound regardless of output levels, via XLR/USB/phones, have tried five different guitars on the front, two different HD500s to confirm it's not a bug, adjusted input impedance, doesn't matter where levels are at in the chain, I hear it on presets and on very simple patches consisting of nothing but a low-gain amp with the drive up just enough for a bit of break-up.  The ONLY way I can seem to clear that clipping-type noise out of the tone is to lower the guitar volume or drive to the point there's no distortion in the tone at all.

I was just curious how many others notice the sound and are or aren't bothered by it, but folks are quick to assume it's just user error.

 

If you're talking about the output level set by a volume knob (if the POD has one of those), that doesn't matter. You have to make sure the output level isn't clipping in the digital stages. I'm pretty sure an output knob would just be controlling the level of the analog stage of the output.

 

You have to adjust the output inside your chain and make sure it's not clipping there.


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#44 Karl_Houseknecht

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 05:58 PM

Since crossover distortion occurs in the power section, yes it's a power amp modeling "issue" of sorts.  That's why you don't hear it when using preamp models.

 

Here's a good explanation of what you're hearing, along with a hint on how you might go about reducing it in the HD:

 

http://www.aikenamps...rDistortion.htm

 

For those wanting the solution to minimize crossover distortion, read the info at the above link.  Adjust the bias deep edit parameter accordingly.  And don't play with the gain so high.


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#45 BlueBrain

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 07:13 PM

Hey all.  Sooooo ... I really had been quite thorough in my earlier troubleshooting, trying different instruments/outputs/amps/levels in the chain, everything suggested to me via line6 support tickets, even going to a store to test another HD 500 with other guitars. Nothing was working.

 

I'm managing now to dial out the clipping sound.  It's still very easy to dial it in, and not entirely clear where it's being introduced.  On the Blackface DBL with gain up I need to keep the bass low and switch to 4038 ribbon mic.

 

I'm still not sold on the unit, so far it's wasted a LOT of my time, I don't think it should be this difficult to achieve a workable tone - but, those of you who said it was possible to resolve that clipping sound with proper settings seemed to be correct.

 

I'm still not sure that it's a matter of gain staging, as if I leave the bass up even above 25% and leave the default mic selected, I can't dial out the clipping without lowering the master and/or drive to the point of zero or near zero distortion.  I mean, you can introduce the same digital clipping sound via poor gain staging, of course, but so far what works to dial it out seems somewhat random, relating to EQ and cabinet/mic selection regardless of gain levels. 

I'm still not convinced it's all a matter of accurate reproduction of the original amps, but whatever the case, if it's digital clipping, why is there nothing in the user interface to show where it's occurring in the chain?  The software should be able to detect that and the user interface should display it.


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#46 BlueBrain

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:10 AM

IMO the issue could depend on the guitar signal level, some guitars have active or very close to the strings pickups and therefore have a very hot output, which fed to a digital device could easily cause some nasty digital clipping, unless there is some sort of input level settings, which unfortunately the POD hasn't, except a very generic 2 ways PAD switch, which is better than nothing

 

If the clipping were happening at the input stage, one would expect to hear it consistently, any patch, not just specifically medium gain setups.  Also, if it were a too-hot guitar input, turning down the volume on the guitar a bit should provide a simple resolution, but as I mentioned, I had tried five very different guitars and the only thing that worked was to lower the drive or the guitar volume to the point of zero distortion.

Now I've found that trying different mics, adjusting bias, and keeping the bottom end modest seems to resolve it.

It seems resolvable, but the solutions limit tone options.


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#47 GLP122751

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 12:31 PM

Well I disagree. Most of the valve amps I have owned needed hardly any tweaking, in fact most them had just a volume and tone control some had no tone control at all. The only one that had a gain control was the tiny terror. Most of these amps were very old but even now I have my recent AC 4 which has only volume and tone. I'm not sure whether the HD stuff is not a toy but it seemed like one to me.

 

I have the JTV 69 and although it sounded reasonable through the HD, when I plugged it into the amp, no effects, the guitar came alive, this same effect happened when I plugged in the Joyo pedal. With the HD it all sounded like a digital mess to be quite honest what with the crossover distortion? and all that. I just don't think Line 6 nail it, in fact no one nails it. The true valve sound I believe cannot be modeled as yet and possibly cannot ever be. Like I say though I am not young, grew up with valves and have stuck with them until this recent experiment, but it's back to analogue for me. It's strange though that the digital variax sounds real good straight through a valve amp but not so good through it's digital companion. Confused.

I find it hard to like the pod or HD sounds to sterile or cold. Digital overdrive will never replace tubes the mechanics are totally different. I have a old Johnson JM250 with 2-12ax7's on the front end driven into the xf chain into SS power amp. It was the first modeling amp on the market. Bad marketing and they stopped selling it but the amp blows anything from line6 out of the water. Cleans sound are warm, overdrive doesn't flap, out tone spectrum stays full throughout being overdrive. Wish they still made them haven't come across any other modeling amp that compare.


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#48 Palico

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 12:55 PM

I appolige ahead of time if someone posted this already. Did anyone check the input2 setting? POD sounds much better if you set that to some input your not using. And got that from this forum, been brought up many times.


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#49 ColonelForbin

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 01:47 PM

I just skimmed the responses, my apologies if this was already addressed - input settings?

 

Try changing input one to whatever you are using (VDI, guitar in, etc.), and then change the second input to something else. 

 

Example / IE:

 

input 1 = guitar

input 2 = variax

 

There is some kind of doubling / summing happening if you set the inputs to 'same'. There are also a ton of threads debating this issue, some say it sounds better one way, others say it's better the other way. Alot of it has to do with using single or dual amp paths.

 

http://line6.com/sup...ew/thread/83576

"when you choose input 2 as "same", you are feeding the signal path with a "hotter" signal, while if you choose input 2 off (i.e mic), you are feeding the signal path with a "colder" signal."

 

http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/

 

http://foobazaar.com...ide/setup#input


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#50 joel_brown

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 04:50 PM

This is a very old thread.  I think the OP is far gone at this point.  Although the info is very useful and was probably the issue the whole time.


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#51 smrybacki

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 06:31 PM

Hey there, thanks for the vid.  To me (and a producer buddy I shared this with) the dirt on these doesn't sound like the dirt on the pod samples.  The pod sample crossover distortion sounds digital and unpleasant to me.

I own a couple of those models lol...love my Princeton Reverb and Silverface Vibro Champ!


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#52 aerosol_d7

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 02:48 PM

Also, if it were a too-hot guitar input, turning down the volume on the guitar a bit should provide a simple resolution, but as I mentioned, I had tried five very different guitars and the only thing that worked was to lower the drive or the guitar volume to the point of zero distortion.

 

 

guitar in button: PAD or Normal ?


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#53 clay-man

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 03:41 PM

I appolige ahead of time if someone posted this already. Did anyone check the input2 setting? POD sounds much better if you set that to some input your not using. And got that from this forum, been brought up many times.

 

I seriously don't get why they don't have as mute feature for the second input. 


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#54 clay-man

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 04:38 PM

probably because if the second input is not used does not add any noise and is perfectly mute.. except when it is set to mic..

the "null" option would only be a precautionary solution to make sure no other physical inputs could be accidentally used together with the one you are using..

 

I've noticed that (the mic input) and it's annoying so I made all guitar only presets force change input 2 to something other than Mic.

 

I'm using my POD as a new audio interface so I'm going to be using it as a mic input as well. The POD's noise floor is significantly lower than my Fast Track Pro's so it's only obvious that I'd use it with my mic as well.


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