Jump to content


Photo

Compressed Dynamics On Playback


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 tedprice

tedprice

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts

Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:46 AM

Hi there,

 

I'm a very happy m20d/StageSource owner. Our band uses the m20D along with 4 L2Ms and 1 L3s for small venues. The ease of setup and musician-friendly controls are incredible. Plus the sound rocks as many here have attested.

 

I'm a guitarist and I use a HD500 into a DT25 with the DT25's direct out going into the m20d.

 

Between rehearsals I've spent a lot of time trying to match the tone coming through the speakers with what I get out of the DT25. I use the m20d's 20 second recording capability to play a riff, record it and then tweak the m20d's EQ as I listen to it over and over.

 

What I've noticed is that when I use this feature it sounds like my tone is getting heavily compressed on playback - in other words it sounds thinner and has less high end than when I'm playing real time through the m20d and speakers. 

 

Should I be hearing a difference? If so, does it have to do with whatever format the m20d is using for those 20 second clips?

 

For reference we play hard rock so all of my patches use a lot of grit.

 

Ted


  • 0

#2 dboomer

dboomer

    Line 6 Staff

  • Moderator
  • 2770 posts

Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:18 AM


 

What I've noticed is that when I use this feature it sounds like my tone is getting heavily compressed on playback - in other words it sounds thinner and has less high end than when I'm playing real time through the m20d and speakers. 

Hi Ted

 

There may be compression on the preset in the mixer channel you are using.  The recording is directly after the analog to digital cobnversion and before any processing done by the mixer.  However when you play it back the mixer can be adding lots of things to the signal.  That is all user selectable.

 

Have you ever ported the recorded wave file over to a DAW?  Same result?



#3 actdmusic

actdmusic

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 73 posts
  • LocationPortugal

Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:57 AM

Hi there,

 

I'm a very happy m20d/StageSource owner. Our band uses the m20D along with 4 L2Ms and 1 L3s for small venues. The ease of setup and musician-friendly controls are incredible. Plus the sound rocks as many here have attested.

 

I'm a guitarist and I use a HD500 into a DT25 with the DT25's direct out going into the m20d.

 

Between rehearsals I've spent a lot of time trying to match the tone coming through the speakers with what I get out of the DT25. I use the m20d's 20 second recording capability to play a riff, record it and then tweak the m20d's EQ as I listen to it over and over.

 

What I've noticed is that when I use this feature it sounds like my tone is getting heavily compressed on playback - in other words it sounds thinner and has less high end than when I'm playing real time through the m20d and speakers. 

 

Should I be hearing a difference? If so, does it have to do with whatever format the m20d is using for those 20 second clips?

 

For reference we play hard rock so all of my patches use a lot of grit.

 

Ted

 

 

My friend, that is my definition of digital modeled guitar sound!  :rolleyes:

 

Very nice trolling about this at a line6 forum  :ph34r:  :D


  • 0

António Duarte

 

My Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/AntonioCTD

 

Anya Karin - Soul Projecthttps://www.facebook.com/AnyaKarinSoul

 

Hit Machine Disco / Funk Party Band: https://www.facebook.com/hitmachinepartyband

 

Portuguese Rock Tribute Band: https://www.facebook.com/rockcassete

 

Iron Maiden Tribute Bandhttps://www.facebook...eamformetributo

 

My music School: http://rockgp.net

 


#4 tedprice

tedprice

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts

Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:54 AM

Hi Ted

 

There may be compression on the preset in the mixer channel you are using.  The recording is directly after the analog to digital cobnversion and before any processing done by the mixer.  However when you play it back the mixer can be adding lots of things to the signal.  That is all user selectable.

 

Have you ever ported the recorded wave file over to a DAW?  Same result?

Thanks Boomer - I turned off all of the effects on the channel so I should be getting a clean playback. However I will record a wav to a SD and see how it sounds when played back on my PC with a decent audio card. I'll report back on this.

 

Ted 


  • 0

#5 tedprice

tedprice

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts

Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:09 PM

My friend, that is my definition of digital modeled guitar sound!  :rolleyes:

 

Very nice trolling about this at a line6 forum  :ph34r:  :D

 

I'm a bit confused about the trolling comment. 

 

Anyway, my point is that despite the fact that I am using digital amp modeling (HD500) it actually sounds really good when I run my guitar through the H500, into the DT25, into the m20d and out of StageSource speakers. I hear pretty close to what I hear from the DT25 - something I'd expect from FRFR speakers.

 

But when I play back the recordings it's not matching up with what I think I'm hearing live. Thus my question.

 

For what it's worth I do have trouble getting a great sound going direct from the HD500 to the m20d. I get a lot more digital harshness than I'd like. So in the interest of JUST using a HD500 I've been attempting to be smarter about gain staging. Meambobbo's PODHD guide has been tremendously helpful: http://foobazaar.com/podhd/toneGuide/


  • 1

#6 actdmusic

actdmusic

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 73 posts
  • LocationPortugal

Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:43 PM

So, when you are playing live you are hearing both the DT25 and the PA right? When you are playing back the recording the DT25 is silent and you hear only the PA. 

 

Is this correct? 


  • 0

António Duarte

 

My Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/AntonioCTD

 

Anya Karin - Soul Projecthttps://www.facebook.com/AnyaKarinSoul

 

Hit Machine Disco / Funk Party Band: https://www.facebook.com/hitmachinepartyband

 

Portuguese Rock Tribute Band: https://www.facebook.com/rockcassete

 

Iron Maiden Tribute Bandhttps://www.facebook...eamformetributo

 

My music School: http://rockgp.net

 


#7 dboomer

dboomer

    Line 6 Staff

  • Moderator
  • 2770 posts

Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:44 PM

I think the situation here is that you are not making an exact apples to apples comparison.  When the DT25 is on you are hearing at least some sound from the speaker and when you play back a recording you are not.

 

I'm not the guitar amp guy ... but ... try comparing the two with the standby switch on the DT25 off and see if that isn't closer.

 

Gain staging is always a trade-off between background noise and distortion.  If you are hearing "digital harshness" then you are probably driving the HD too hard.  Try backing the drive into it a bit (as well as some of the internal stages in your patch)



#8 tedprice

tedprice

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts

Posted 30 October 2013 - 01:31 PM

So, when you are playing live you are hearing both the DT25 and the PA right? When you are playing back the recording the DT25 is silent and you hear only the PA. 

 

Is this correct? 

Yup, that's correct. But I'm turning the DT25 away and having it face outside the room so that its impact on what I'm hearing is less obvious. Anyway you're right that it is coloring my perceptions a bit.  


  • 0

#9 tedprice

tedprice

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts

Posted 30 October 2013 - 01:39 PM

I think the situation here is that you are not making an exact apples to apples comparison.  When the DT25 is on you are hearing at least some sound from the speaker and when you play back a recording you are not.

 

I'm not the guitar amp guy ... but ... try comparing the two with the standby switch on the DT25 off and see if that isn't closer.

 

Gain staging is always a trade-off between background noise and distortion.  If you are hearing "digital harshness" then you are probably driving the HD too hard.  Try backing the drive into it a bit (as well as some of the internal stages in your patch)

Yup, I will try different combinations. I've only tried the second option below (from the DT25 manual):

 

Low Volume Mode On, Amp in Standby = Direct Out signal consists of the “Full” 
(preamp + power amp) Amp Model with no analog amp. This is a handy option for 
“silent recording” while still providing the tone of a cranked amp.
 
Low Volume Mode Off, Amp On (not in Standby) = Direct Out signal consists of 
the “Preamp” Amp Model with the analog amp.
 
Low Volume Mode On, Amp On (not in Standby) = Direct Out signal consists of the 
“Full” Amp Model and the analog amp.
 
In fact, reading the above again I'm realizing that I should probably be using the third option and not the second.
 
Getting rid of the digital harshness by driving the HD less hard is definitely a trial and error thing for me. I've had to retrain myself not to crank the drive by default and instead rely on distortion pedals, EQ and compression to attain a smoother breakup.
 
Usually I can get it to sound fantastic coming out of the DT25. But once I go direct to the m20d/Stagesource speakers from the back of the DT25 I really start hearing the digital harshness that I suppose the DT25's cabinet masks...which means that I have to be pretty meticulous with how I create patches for the HD500. Or maybe I'm just not far enough up the learning curve yet.
 
Thanks to you and actdmusic for your advice.

  • 1

#10 actdmusic

actdmusic

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 73 posts
  • LocationPortugal

Posted 30 October 2013 - 04:36 PM

sound like it's the cab simulation that is causing the tone you don't like. 

 

try to mic the amp just to test the theory.


  • 0

António Duarte

 

My Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/AntonioCTD

 

Anya Karin - Soul Projecthttps://www.facebook.com/AnyaKarinSoul

 

Hit Machine Disco / Funk Party Band: https://www.facebook.com/hitmachinepartyband

 

Portuguese Rock Tribute Band: https://www.facebook.com/rockcassete

 

Iron Maiden Tribute Bandhttps://www.facebook...eamformetributo

 

My music School: http://rockgp.net

 


#11 tedprice

tedprice

    Just Startin'

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts

Posted 31 October 2013 - 03:16 PM

sound like it's the cab simulation that is causing the tone you don't like. 

 

try to mic the amp just to test the theory.

I'll do that this weekend. Thanks.


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users