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Jtv69 With Bridge Pickup Replacement


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#1 wolbai

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 10:44 AM

Hi,

 

for various reasons I recently started to use more the magnetic pickups in my JTVs as I have done in the past. And I think the following can be some kind of interest to user which have the same "Modeling approach".

 

Although the stock bridge pickup in the JTV69 is very well balanced with the two single coil pickups, I always felt the need for more balls, punch and higher output to make that guitar even more versatile for heavier rock rhythm and lead tones.

 

So I replaced the stock JTV69 humbucker (I read somewhere in these forums that it is a modification of a James Tyler Studebaker with 8,8 kohm) with a Seymour Duncan JB-TB4. More details can be found here:

 

http://www.seymourdu...t/sh4_jb_model/

 

I searched quite a bit to find one humbucker which fits to my personal needs and taste (classic rock, pop, funk, hard rock - no metal). It is a very well known standard bridge humbucker.

 

The JB-TB4 is a high output pickup (16,4 kohm) compared to the JTV69 stock bridge pickup. It is not too hot and therefore retains the typical Strat position 2 tone which is important to me.

 

In position 1, this pickup rocks !!! It has rich harmonics and is great for all Gibson Les Paul type of Rhythm and Lead sounds which I was looking for.

 

 

Installation

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I have to say that I am not a technical person. So I did some research on the web to find the right tools (soldering iron, soldering tin, etc.).

 

All in all the replacement was not complicated although my last soldering exercise was approx. 30 years ago :D

 

As this was just a "simple" replacement of an existing humbucker with a new one, I have to mention that of course it should be done carefully. And it is also important to mention Line6 official policy:

 

"Any customization/modification performed will void the warranty if it results in damage to the guitar. "

 

The Line6 wiring diagram for the JTV69 can be found here:

 

http://line6.com/sup...ng-diagrams-r64

 

I also did not split the humbucker coils. I just did the wiring as the stock bridge humbucker is wired.

 

The Seymour Duncan JB-TB4 has a standard 5 wiring as the stock humbucker in the JTV69. The red/white wire is not used. They are soldered together and taped (no coil splitting). The ground wire needs to be winded with black wire. So all in all: there are just two wires to solder: the black (hot signal with ground) and the green wire.  For further illustration please have a look a the attached pictures:

 

Attached File  JTV69-01.jpg   131.15KB   17 downloads

 

Attached File  JTV69-02.jpg   58.2KB   12 downloads

 

Attached File  JTV69-03.jpg   48.01KB   12 downloads

 

 

Once the new humbucker is installed the JTV69 with a Warmoth Vintage Stratocaster type neck looks like this:

 

Attached File  DSC_0240.jpg   157.28KB   15 downloads

 

Attached File  DSC_0241.jpg   129.42KB   11 downloads

 

 

I also made a quick recording with by HD500 and a BF Double to demonstrate the position 2 sound and with the Treadplate to demonstrate the position 1 sound:

 

The first 2 licks are on position 2: This humbucker retains the typical Strat position 2 very well.

 

The last two licks are the same. But the first is played with the Gibson bridge pickup JTV-modeling. And the last licks is played with new Seymour Duncan JB-TB4 in position 1. It goes pretty much in the direction of a Gibson Les Paul sound to me. It has very good harmonics. I tested it with my tube amp in the rehearsal room as well and the punch and harmonics are even more shining with a tube amp.

 

Please forgive my sloppy playing; it is really quick+dirty and just to demonstrate the overall sound:

 

http://www.soundclic...3&q=hi&newref=1

 

 

Now the flipside of the medal: how to balance the JB-TB4 (if so) with the other pickups ???

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By the nature of the specs: this humbucker is louder than the two single coils. I therefore have adapted the two single coils in their height to the string to a maximum level which does not generate negative strings waves.

 

But there is still a noticeable volume difference. This is not necessarily negative. It depends on how the position 1 is used. I have not made my final opinion on that. But the humbucker needs to be pretty close to the string (2-3 mm on the bass side) to get that humbucker sound I am looking for. So just to increase the string distance is not an option a want to go.

 

I love the two single coil pickups. They sound great to me (with the exception of the hum in pos. 5 + 3). So I tend to keep them. Not shure, if there are other single coil pickups in the market which will minimize this volume gap to the JB-TB4. Any recommendations from users here to help me on that would be great and much appreciated. In case of replacing the existing single coils, the new ones should not only balance better with the JB-TB4 volume wise. They also need to keep the classic Strat type of sound.

 

Thoughts / comments much appreciated.


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______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

THE RETROMANIAC

Gear: Warmoth (H-S-H)-built, JTV 59, JTV 69, JTV 89F, Godin Seagull, Gibson Les Paul Deluxe, POD/HD500, DT50/212, DT50/Head, Marshall JVMC212, Radial JDX Reactor
website: http://www.soundclick.com/wolbai  Band: http://www.jump-backtorock.de/


#2 arislaf

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 11:24 AM

With a Dimarzio DP184 (the chopper) and a Virtual Solo DP420... I believe your problem will be solved...The chopper will keep the desired strat sound, but the V-solo is a bit different....Try to put on the middle.


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#3 wolbai

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 12:05 PM

Hi arisaf,

 

both suggested Dimarzio pickups are humbucker in single coil format. That means, installing in the neck position needs additional coil splitting to get position 4 Strat sound. That also means a different wiring than it is shown in the Line6 pickup wiring diagrams ... As I am not a technical person :D I tend to keep any changes in the pickups as simple a possible.

 

EDIT: I think I should ask it a bit different: Does the DP184 require coil splitting to keep the Strat position 4 sound? If so, I would prefer first to look for Single Coil Pickups.

 

Are there any Single Coil pickups in the market for Neck and middle position you could (or other user) recommend where I can keep / use the existing Line6 wiring sheme ???


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______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

THE RETROMANIAC

Gear: Warmoth (H-S-H)-built, JTV 59, JTV 69, JTV 89F, Godin Seagull, Gibson Les Paul Deluxe, POD/HD500, DT50/212, DT50/Head, Marshall JVMC212, Radial JDX Reactor
website: http://www.soundclick.com/wolbai  Band: http://www.jump-backtorock.de/


#4 arislaf

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 01:15 PM

SDS 1 is a good option with nice output, and I would recommend the FS 1.Those are the one I am using currently :)


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#5 wolbai

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 02:11 PM

SDS 1 is a good option with nice output, and I would recommend the FS 1.Those are the one I am using currently :)

Just googled on them. They are catching my interests (especially the SDS-1). Need to investigate further. Thanks for the tip!


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______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

THE RETROMANIAC

Gear: Warmoth (H-S-H)-built, JTV 59, JTV 69, JTV 89F, Godin Seagull, Gibson Les Paul Deluxe, POD/HD500, DT50/212, DT50/Head, Marshall JVMC212, Radial JDX Reactor
website: http://www.soundclick.com/wolbai  Band: http://www.jump-backtorock.de/


#6 arislaf

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 09:13 AM

Just today I installed the FS 1 on neck, red velvet on middle and blue velvet (bridge) on bridge.Very knopfler style :) If you want I can record something and sent you.


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#7 wolbai

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 11:15 AM

Just today I installed the FS 1 on neck, red velvet on middle and blue velvet (bridge) on bridge.Very knopfler style :) If you want I can record something and sent you.

Hi, arislaf,

 

a quick recording of the FS 1 in neck position would be great! As far as I have reviewed, it is a true single coil pickup, but with more output (25%) than a standard single coil pup and therefore normal hum  - right?

 

Do have any experience with Kinman AVn 69 pickups for Neck and middle position (price is more than double of a FS1) ?


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______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

THE RETROMANIAC

Gear: Warmoth (H-S-H)-built, JTV 59, JTV 69, JTV 89F, Godin Seagull, Gibson Les Paul Deluxe, POD/HD500, DT50/212, DT50/Head, Marshall JVMC212, Radial JDX Reactor
website: http://www.soundclick.com/wolbai  Band: http://www.jump-backtorock.de/


#8 arislaf

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 11:45 AM

Correct everything you read about FS1. In the next 24 hours you will have your recording :) About the Kinman, honestly no, I first time heard about it.


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#9 arislaf

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 01:38 AM

All recorded with FS1 and no any post processing. First part is a J45, second an A15, third Soldano, fourth a blackface normal, and last the pickup itself. https://soundcloud.c...af/pickup-check


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#10 wolbai

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 05:32 AM

All recorded with FS1 and no any post processing. First part is a J45, second an A15, third Soldano, fourth a blackface normal, and last the pickup itself. https://soundcloud.c...af/pickup-check

Thanks - that helps! The FS1 sounds quite good. The FS1 sounds a bit less brilliant in the highs and with more mids than the stock neck pickup IMHO.But that is not bad. So the sound is a bit darker and has more warmth. Propbably because it is wound with more coils and higher output. I guess this pickup will cut through pretty nice in Leadparts played in the neck position in a band mix.

 

I have read somewhere that this old DiMarzio pup was installed in one of Mark Knopflers Strats in the neck position as well.

 

Not shure how the FS1 behaves in a position 4: it probably depends on the middle pickup. In any case, I like to have that bell ringing Strat tone in position 4.

 

Last night I had a rehearsal with my band. The JB-TB4 cuts nicely through the mix  :D  But I also realized that for songs where I play lead parts switching from position 5 to 1 (or even 4 to 2) the existing stock pickups are just not right any more in terms of volume balance (although they sound pretty good to me).

 

So I tend to replace the 2 remaining stock pickups. What I am looking for is a pickup combination where I can play volume balanced  Leadparts in position 5 and 1 and keep the twang Strat sound in position 4 and 2. 

It is not a problem, if the pickups may sound a bit darker. I guess this is necessarily the case for hotter pickups anyhow.

 

The Kinman pickups (they are humbuckers in single coil format) have pretty good reviews as far as I can see. And they do sounds excellent on some Youtube-demos. They are hum noise reduced and keep mainly the twang sound in position 2+4 without any coil tapping. But - as already said - they cost 155 USD in my country. That is nearly triple the price of a FS 1.

 

Thanks for support! Will keep you informed what pickups I will choose.


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______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

THE RETROMANIAC

Gear: Warmoth (H-S-H)-built, JTV 59, JTV 69, JTV 89F, Godin Seagull, Gibson Les Paul Deluxe, POD/HD500, DT50/212, DT50/Head, Marshall JVMC212, Radial JDX Reactor
website: http://www.soundclick.com/wolbai  Band: http://www.jump-backtorock.de/


#11 arislaf

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 10:17 AM

Welcome.As for position 4, as you said depends on the middle pup, mine is the red velvet (i bought it blindly) and it's the first time I don't like it as configuration (3 or 4 position) but goes perfectly to the position 2.I had to reduce the height of the pup and increase the red and blue velvet to match the volume, though. Anyway, it is true that mark knopfler used the FS1 on the neck position, and that is the main reason I bought it :) http://www.mk-guitar...blog/2008/12/10 

I am waiting for your decision :)


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#12 wolbai

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 01:35 PM

I decided to go for Kinman pickups in neck and middle position:

 

very dynamic pickups with hum cancelling and still very Strat like, but more dynamic. It was a bit of an adventure, because I was not sure whether the neck pickup could be balanced volume wise with the JB-TB4 humbucker. But it is possible, because the Kinman pickups can be installed pretty close to the strings (2-3 mmm) without negative string waves.

 

The Kinman pickup height needs to be carefully balanced. Especially the middle pickup reacts very different in sound. I am not finished with that. Probably takes some rehearsals and gigs for final tuning.

 

During my research for new pickups I stumbled over a very nice playback "Emotive Ballad" (Jamtrackcentral.com) and this inspired me pretty much. I therefore did a recording with the new pickups. I have chosen the Marshall Plexi Lead amp model in the POD HD500. Mainly played in Position 5,4 and 1. Nice variety of sounds, very less post mixing in Cubase and I think it is hearable how dynamic the pickups are (played also some parts just with the fingers)

 

http://www.soundclic...9&q=hi&newref=1

 

 

cheers - wolbai.


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______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

THE RETROMANIAC

Gear: Warmoth (H-S-H)-built, JTV 59, JTV 69, JTV 89F, Godin Seagull, Gibson Les Paul Deluxe, POD/HD500, DT50/212, DT50/Head, Marshall JVMC212, Radial JDX Reactor
website: http://www.soundclick.com/wolbai  Band: http://www.jump-backtorock.de/


#13 arislaf

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 10:41 PM

Thanks for the response! Happy that you found what you want!They sound awesome!More stratish character than my dimarzio!


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#14 rafreema

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 06:04 PM

Thank you arislaf or whoever suggested FS1 for the neck and red velvelt for the middle...... it sounds fantastic.  Night and day with respect of the original pickups.  I kept the original HB pickup.  All 5 positions are unique and sound great.  Change over was pretty easy too.  I followed someone elses suggestion of just cutting the wires and soldering the new pickup wires to the original wires instead of risking overheating the circuit board.   I used heat shrink tubing to insulate the connections.  So glad I didn't screw the pooch on this.


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