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Before I Buy A Dt-25 Amp, A Hookup Question...

hd500 variax dream rig

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#1 smrybacki

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 04:30 AM

I already have a POD HD500 and JTV59 which I currently play through a pair of Tech21 Power Engines. I have this idea that if I now get a DT-25 amp, I can hook it all up like this:

JTV59 -> HD500 via VDI cable
HD500 -> DT-25 via Line 6 link cable
HD500 -> Power Engines via XLR outs

So if I then set my inputs on the HD500 to 1-Variax and 2 Variax Mags, I can send dual signals out to each output setup individually, as in acoustic model to the DT and Mags with effects in stereo to the Power Engines?

Do I have this right?
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#2 radatats

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 05:01 AM

One would think.  However, my experience so far is as soon as you turn on the DT, the POD switches from STUDIO DIRECT to STACK POWER AMP and the sound out through the 1/4 and XLR becomes very thin and scratchy, unusable. Very disappointing.  They tell me I have to take the XLR out from the DT but that defeats the idea of a separate stereo signal feeding the PA (T21PE's).

 

I am not happy about it and am still trying to find a workable solution.   :angry:


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#3 TheRealZap

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 05:35 AM

2 DT amps. 

:)

sorry not exactly a low cost option.. but would get it done.

 

 

I am not happy about it and am still trying to find a workable solution.   :angry:


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#4 smrybacki

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 06:41 AM

One would think.  However, my experience so far is as soon as you turn on the DT, the POD switches from STUDIO DIRECT to STACK POWER AMP and the sound out through the 1/4 and XLR becomes very thin and scratchy, unusable. Very disappointing.  They tell me I have to take the XLR out from the DT but that defeats the idea of a separate stereo signal feeding the PA (T21PE's).
 
I am not happy about it and am still trying to find a workable solution.   :angry:


I think you just saved me a few dollars my friends. Welcome to the Christmas card list...lol
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#5 ColonelForbin

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:16 AM

I realize this solution would not be considered ideal from a budget standpoint - however, there is a relatively simple solution...

 

As TheRealZap said: Buy another DT amp. Using the L6Link you can chain two of the DT's together, and within the POD assign the stereo L/R to the two DT's, and then you would have two XLR outs from the two DT's.

 

Basically everything everyone else said is spot on: using the Link to the DT deactivates the cab and mic modelling from the POD, only utilizing the PRE portions of the amp model, hence the tip to build your patches, esp dual amp tones using the PRE models not the FULL models.

 

It does automatically switch to Combo or Stack mode based on whether the DT is  combo or a head/cab unit. I am not sure what happens if you chain a DT combo with a DT stack, if it chooses one mode, or sends each amp a different mode.

 

Anyway, the XLR out from the DT is nice, albeit a very low signal level. It could use some gain on the output side of things, but it's a good sounding DI output, in terms of, it's not the scratchy sound being described as you would get from the XLR outs off the POD while in Combo/Stack mode.

 

As far as I am concerned, the best sound you will get from the pairing of the Variax and the HD POD is through a DT amp. I think the POD HD cabinet and mic modelling is good; I used it from 2010-2014 without a DT amp. However, I just got to finally complete the trio, and test out my new DT25 with my new JTV59 (bought both in the past two weeks), it's hands down the best the POD has EVER sounded, and it was the most fun to play. I still don't even know which FIRMWARE I have on the JTV! I don't really care..  Not yet anyway. The DT does something different that the POD can't do; I suppose that credit goes to Bogner.

 

I just know how cool it sounded to be able to leave the POD patch alone, and switch between guitar models in the middle of a jam, and hear how responsive the amp was to all the various tones from the Variax.

 

ALSO, and this is 100% pure speculation - but I feel that the JTV does a better job of handling the Analog>DIgital conversion process, better than the HD500. Even when using the JTV humbuckers, the JTV is handling the A/D conversion, and the POD is getting a pure digital signal. This sounds better than plugging in a guitar using 1/4" to the POD, even with the DT amp. I bought the DT first, and was using my USA Strat (the kind with the humbucker in the bridge slot and single coils in the other two). While it sounded radically better via the DT that it did going into the PA, or a keyboard amp, or in the front of a guitar amp, or in the FX Return - it didn't sound as good as the Variax. Again, just my ears making a guess, but that's the brass tacks of my experience.


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#6 smrybacki

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:46 AM

I realize this solution would not be considered ideal from a budget standpoint - however, there is a relatively simple solution...

 

As TheRealZap said: Buy another DT amp. Using the L6Link you can chain two of the DT's together, and within the POD assign the stereo L/R to the two DT's, and then you would have two XLR outs from the two DT's.

 

Basically everything everyone else said is spot on: using the Link to the DT deactivates the cab and mic modelling from the POD, only utilizing the PRE portions of the amp model, hence the tip to build your patches, esp dual amp tones using the PRE models not the FULL models.

 

It does automatically switch to Combo or Stack mode based on whether the DT is  combo or a head/cab unit. I am not sure what happens if you chain a DT combo with a DT stack, if it chooses one mode, or sends each amp a different mode.

 

Anyway, the XLR out from the DT is nice, albeit a very low signal level. It could use some gain on the output side of things, but it's a good sounding DI output, in terms of, it's not the scratchy sound being described as you would get from the XLR outs off the POD while in Combo/Stack mode.

 

As far as I am concerned, the best sound you will get from the pairing of the Variax and the HD POD is through a DT amp. I think the POD HD cabinet and mic modelling is good; I used it from 2010-2014 without a DT amp. However, I just got to finally complete the trio, and test out my new DT25 with my new JTV59 (bought both in the past two weeks), it's hands down the best the POD has EVER sounded, and it was the most fun to play. I still don't even know which FIRMWARE I have on the JTV! I don't really care..  Not yet anyway. The DT does something different that the POD can't do; I suppose that credit goes to Bogner.

 

I just know how cool it sounded to be able to leave the POD patch alone, and switch between guitar models in the middle of a jam, and hear how responsive the amp was to all the various tones from the Variax.

 

ALSO, and this is 100% pure speculation - but I feel that the JTV does a better job of handling the Analog>DIgital conversion process, better than the HD500. Even when using the JTV humbuckers, the JTV is handling the A/D conversion, and the POD is getting a pure digital signal. This sounds better than plugging in a guitar using 1/4" to the POD, even with the DT amp. I bought the DT first, and was using my USA Strat (the kind with the humbucker in the bridge slot and single coils in the other two). While it sounded radically better via the DT that it did going into the PA, or a keyboard amp, or in the front of a guitar amp, or in the FX Return - it didn't sound as good as the Variax. Again, just my ears making a guess, but that's the brass tacks of my experience.

Well, the deal is right now I am vasilating between the StageSource LT3 and the DT-25, both would require a pair to make stereo.  Both cost about the same, but the advantage of the StageSource solution is that I also get a PA system :)

Thanks for you input on this man, I appreciate it!


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#7 ColonelForbin

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 10:41 AM

Well, the deal is right now I am vasilating between the StageSource LT3 and the DT-25, both would require a pair to make stereo.  Both cost about the same, but the advantage of the StageSource solution is that I also get a PA system :)

Thanks for you input on this man, I appreciate it!

 

I am definitely interested in those Stage Source as well - one thing that can be said in their favor, is if you like the way the Studio/Direct sounds through them, the benefit will be you should get a much better rendering of the JTV's acoustic tones.

 

I haven't had time to really dig in deep with the acoustics and eclectic models, but alot of folks are saying they don't play as nice with the DT.

 

I think that the stage source is a killer option, seeing how versatile they are, monitors, ,mains, or the ability to emulate a guitar amp. You may be on to something there! They also use the L6Link, so you've got that going for it as well.

 

I end up gravitating towards the LP models on the JTV and the Plexi on the HD, so the DT does a great job there - the Bogner portion really sounds stellar..


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#8 smrybacki

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 10:52 AM

I am definitely interested in those Stage Source as well - one thing that can be said in their favor, is if you like the way the Studio/Direct sounds through them, the benefit will be you should get a much better rendering of the JTV's acoustic tones.

 

I haven't had time to really dig in deep with the acoustics and eclectic models, but alot of folks are saying they don't play as nice with the DT.

 

I think that the stage source is a killer option, seeing how versatile they are, monitors, ,mains, or the ability to emulate a guitar amp. You may be on to something there! They also use the L6Link, so you've got that going for it as well.

 

I end up gravitating towards the LP models on the JTV and the Plexi on the HD, so the DT does a great job there - the Bogner portion really sounds stellar..

Yeah, one of the main complaints against the DT series seems to be it's lackluster sounds with the JTV acoustics.  I really do want access to the acoustics and I like what I here direct too, so that is a plus two.  I'm kind of hanging until I can find a place to go and TRY these things before I drop a small fortune of something lol...


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#9 radatats

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 10:52 AM

I have gotten a pretty nice acoustic tone from my DT but the trick is to bypass the amp block.  Make a dual path patch and put any amp or pre in the A channel, nothing in the B channel.  Put a Volume pedal in channel A right in front of the amp block set to zero, disable the expression pedal.  Now your plain unmodified guitar tone will flow direct to the power section of the DT through channel B.  Remember that the physical topology depends on which amp you pick so try various ones till you like either I,II,III or IV.  Pop a little reverb at the end of your chain and its not too bad...


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#10 smrybacki

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 10:56 AM

I have gotten a pretty nice acoustic tone from my DT but the trick is to bypass the amp block.  Make a dual path patch and put any amp or pre in the A channel, nothing in the B channel.  Put a Volume pedal in channel A right in front of the amp block set to zero, disable the expression pedal.  Now your plain unmodified guitar tone will flow direct to the power section of the DT through channel B.  Remember that the physical topology depends on which amp you pick so try various ones till you like either I,II,III or IV.  Pop a little reverb at the end of your chain and its not too bad...

Hmm, that makes sense...sort of like an effects loop setup.  Good tip...


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#11 TheRealZap

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 11:20 AM

if you aren't using it for anything else...

you can also just setup the fx loop in the patch first... (or after desired acoustic effects)

and run the fx out to the PA....  this gives you a quick bypass of the L6LINK and a near A/B switch type setup


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#12 sonic

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 01:00 PM

And if you use the fx loop out (send), it can be made stereo. So you can preserve your stereo reverb and delays.
You just need to use a stereo 1/4" Jack to left and right mono Jack (or xlr...)
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#13 radatats

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 01:14 PM

of course, but that is not sending it to your DT, its going to the PA...


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#14 TheRealZap

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 01:17 PM

The DT only sounds decent for acoustics at lower volumes.... and even that is just tolerable... as in still not good.

but you are of course right... was just throwing out the option.

 

of course, but that is not sending it to your DT, its going to the PA...


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#15 ColonelForbin

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 01:34 PM

 

you can also just setup the fx loop in the patch first... (or after desired acoustic effects)

and run the fx out to the PA....  this gives you a quick bypass of the L6LINK and a near A/B switch type setup

 

Regarding setting up an alternate signal route when using the acoustic models on JTV>HD500>DT25 :

I had a similar thought to what Zap said, and was wondering earlier today if that would work! Question: does the DT have an fx loop return, and can that signal from the POD FX loop out be sent to the DT to bypass the amp modelling and go direct into the power amp? and if some variation of this is feasible, does that signal then also get routed out the XLR DI out from the DT25?>


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#16 radatats

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 04:46 PM

OK, so I thought about this all afternoon and worked on it as soon as I got home.  This patch works amazing with my DT25 head, 2X12 sealed cab with Celestion V30s and it should work fine with any other DT setup.  It's not rocket science.  I don't know why it shouldn't sound good at volume as it just sounds sweet with my set up.  It may not be perfect but it works with all 5 acoustic models.

 

I put a flip top in channel A, centered the mixers and muted channel A.  Set input to Variax, same.  I have 2 Graphic Equalizers setup on FS1; when lit it is for pos 5, when off its for all others.  2 different reverbs on FS 4 and analog chorus on FS 3.  I set the topology to III and it just gets that nice sort of resonance you would expect from an acoustic.  I set the POD master to 100% and adjust with the DT master since you really don't want power section breakup. 

 

Let me know how this works.

 

Nevermind the link, the site is still messed up.


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