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jtv59 banjo popping

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#1 edstar1960

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 02:06 AM

I have a JTV59 and I am still on 1.71 flash and I play with VDI connected to HD500. I have used the banjo model before without any issues but have not needed it for last 8 months or so, but needed it again this weekend. When I used it I noticed a distinct popping sound that seemed to occur at the same time as the initial pick attack. It seemed far more pronounced on the A and D strings and not really noticeable on the B and high E. If I played really gently then I could avoid it but normal play it was there. It wasn't on every pick but it would come and go as I played and was very obvious. I switched everything off and on a few times and it was still there. I have no idea what is causing it. It does not occur with any other model sounds. Has anyone else had the same issue with the banjo model? And if so, did you identify the problem? And did you find a fix? Thanks.
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#2 mr-jw

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 10:31 AM

Hey,

 

I think i have a similar problem with the banjo sound. It sounds a bit like a 'static' click. This also accurs sometimes with some other reso and acoustic sounds. Sometimes it looks that the tone knob on the guitar does affect this popping sound, but i'm not sure. I'm also not sure if this is a firmware issue or perhaps a output volume issue. Anyway, i don't have a fix jet. Maybe somebody else?


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#3 edstar1960

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 02:15 AM

Thanks for the reply - yes the sound is like a "static" click.  It's really annoying.    What level of flash are you on with your JTV?  Just wondering if it's present in all versions right through to 2.0.


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#4 mr-jw

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:43 AM

I was using 2.0 but reflashed it to 1.9. Same problem with static click noise on both firmware.


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#5 edstar1960

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:46 AM

Thanks - I have just upgraded to v2.0 and the issue was still there although it did not seem quite as bad.


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#6 ext1jdh

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 08:35 AM

I have the same thing on mine. I put a parametric eq in my mix after a graphic eq. Graphic has 220 lowered down and the parametric has been tweaked with my sound guy to make it sound more natural.
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#7 edstar1960

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 08:38 AM

Thanks for the reply - would you mine sharing the parameter values for the GRAPHIC EQ and the PARAMETRIC EQ so we can try it out?  Thanks in advance.

 

I have the same thing on mine. I put a parametric eq in my mix after a graphic eq. Graphic has 220 lowered down and the parametric has been tweaked with my sound guy to make it sound more natural.


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#8 ext1jdh

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 08:39 AM

I'll pull them out of the board when I get home and drop a screenshot

I'm using an HD500 but the graphic and parametric values may vary for you.
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#9 ext1jdh

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:23 PM

Here's my banjo settings and the HD500 patch for those who are interested. If anyone would like more detail please feel free to ask. 

 

Note that the graphic is first in the chain, the parametric is second in the chain. It's not set up that way further down, but the chain has the GEQ first.

 

YodBDfS.jpg

Attached Files


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#10 edstar1960

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 02:31 AM

Thanks very much!


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#11 ext1jdh

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:59 AM

Note that my attached patch is jtv variax specific - it's looking for the variax input. If you're not using a JTV than you'll need to adjust. In any case you should adjust the eq for your sound system. I'm running through a church PA so my sound guy tells me what needs to be adjusted from his viewpoint
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#12 edstar1960

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 04:18 AM

Thank you once again ext1jdh.  The EQ adjustments for the banjo have improved the sound, however, it has not removed the "static pop" sound.  It is still there and comes and goes during playing - very annoying.  I wonder why I had never noticed it before?  I can't stop hearing it now!

 

 

Note that my attached patch is jtv variax specific - it's looking for the variax input. If you're not using a JTV than you'll need to adjust. In any case you should adjust the eq for your sound system. I'm running through a church PA so my sound guy tells me what needs to be adjusted from his viewpoint


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#13 ext1jdh

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 05:17 AM

Are you fingerpicking or using picks? The banjo model has an extremely high attack that does not respond well to picking. As with the acoustic models, the banjo is best used with an extremely light technique. It can't be treated like a traditional banjo.

I'll spend some more time in HD Edit tonight and see if I can make it sound better, but technique plays the largest part when using the banjo model.
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#14 edstar1960

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 05:45 AM

Are you fingerpicking or using picks? The banjo model has an extremely high attack that does not respond well to picking. As with the acoustic models, the banjo is best used with an extremely light technique. It can't be treated like a traditional banjo.

I'll spend some more time in HD Edit tonight and see if I can make it sound better, but technique plays the largest part when using the banjo model.

 

Yes I am using a pick - and I am trying to strum lightly.  It doesn't appear to be related to the strength of the picking. It just pops up (pardon the pun) every now and then. It is like a static electricity pop and doesn't seem directly related to the note, string or pick action occurring at the time.  I don't think it can be EQ'd out - your original patch settings are good for the Banjo sound. This popping seems to be a fundamental characteristic of the model.    I will try picking lightly with my fingers to see if it disappears.  Thanks again.


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#15 ext1jdh

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 05:55 AM

Edit: any chance of a recording?

I would suspect a cable connection, or something smacking the bridge in that case. The piezo pickups in the bridge will take any vibrations they encounter and convert them to signal. That happens with my JTV69 whammy bar, squeaking when it swings. I can hear clipping when I pick too hard on the banjo or acoustic models. If you're not hearing clipping, but static-like popping then its likely something entirely different. It's probably happening all the time, but the banjo model is so sensitive that it shows up more often.

I get static pops in my headphones when I move around in my chairs possibly there's a grounding problem somewhere in your chain? That's always been something I've found odd about the HD500 is that it's not a grounded device...but I digress.

If that's what it is, then it's got to be happening prior to the piezo pickups. Possibly static grounding on the strings/bridge, or something smacking the bridge.

As an experiment, see if you can add reverb to the pop. If the pop reverberates then it's occurring in the guitar-effects chain. If it doesn't reverberate, then it's after the guitar-effects chain
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#16 edstar1960

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:44 AM

I have made a recording of the Banjo sound - straight in to MUSIC CREATOR from the JTV59 via my ALESIS IO/2 usb interface.  Here it is:  http://soundcloud.co...ple-track-1-rec

 

The popping sound is rather like someone tutting here and there through the recording.

 

Edit: any chance of a recording?

 


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#17 offashead

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 11:14 AM

I have made a recording of the Banjo sound - straight in to MUSIC CREATOR from the JTV59 via my ALESIS IO/2 usb interface.  Here it is:  http://soundcloud.co...ple-track-1-rec

 

The popping sound is rather like someone tutting here and there through the recording.

 

I don't use a POD anymore ,but, that's another story. I hear it and I get the same using a JTV69 direct into a recorder. It occurs on the low strings more than others. I use a plectrum but a very thin one and I use it very lightly. I believe, as has been said, it's down to the nature of the model/attack. It happens on the other reso position but not as pronounced, you are not alone.


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#18 ext1jdh

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:14 PM

I have made a recording of the Banjo sound - straight in to MUSIC CREATOR from the JTV59 via my ALESIS IO/2 usb interface.  Here it is:  http://soundcloud.co...ple-track-1-rec

 

The popping sound is rather like someone tutting here and there through the recording.

 

I was able to download your wav file from Soundcloud and run it through Logic. To me it sounds like pick attack. 

 

I threw a parametric eq on it and I think I was able to isolate and trim out the popping. It seems to be occurring around 5300 hZ. If you can turn down 5300 hZ in your EQ (either parametric or graphic) then you can probably get rid of the majority of the sound you're hearing. 

 

Use the Q value below as a guideline - it'll be different for anything that's not Logic.

 

Pf9CozR.png

 

I'd love to hear if this worked for you. I'm definitely going to do the same for my HD500's parametric.


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#19 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 02:13 PM

I get some unwanted noise when I try to play with my fingers with many of the models - especially the acoustics.  I don't get it with a pick at all.  I do not get that with my Variax 500.  I need to work on my playing style to get rid of this I guess.  It's only there with the modeling not with the mags.


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#20 edstar1960

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:16 AM

Thank you very much for looking at this for me and for your suggestion on how to remove with parametric EQ - so I will give that a try.

 

By the way - I don't think it is pick attack because I can still get it even when I just use my left hand and gently hammer on notes.  Just stepping through a sequence of notes using just my left hand pressing the strings on the banjo model still creates this popping sound.  I have even tried turning down all the string volumes for the banjo model to 90% but it is still there.  I think it is integral to the model.   However, I will try the EQ solution to see if I can minimise or remove it altogether.

 

UPDATE:  I tried to EQ on the HD500.  The GRAPHIC EQ does not have a high enough range.  The PARAMETRIC only goes up to 4500Hz, but I tried it anyway. I set FREQ to 100% to get to 4500Hz and then varied the Q from 5% up to 100% and still had the popping noise.  :(

 

I was able to download your wav file from Soundcloud and run it through Logic. To me it sounds like pick attack. 

 

I threw a parametric eq on it and I think I was able to isolate and trim out the popping. It seems to be occurring around 5300 hZ. If you can turn down 5300 hZ in your EQ (either parametric or graphic) then you can probably get rid of the majority of the sound you're hearing. 

 

Use the Q value below as a guideline - it'll be different for anything that's not Logic.

 

Pf9CozR.png

 

I'd love to hear if this worked for you. I'm definitely going to do the same for my HD500's parametric.


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#21 edstar1960

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:17 AM

I get some unwanted noise when I try to play with my fingers with many of the models - especially the acoustics.  I don't get it with a pick at all.  I do not get that with my Variax 500.  I need to work on my playing style to get rid of this I guess.  It's only there with the modeling not with the mags.

 

I don't think it is playing style - I think it is integral to the model.  Try using the banjo model and just play with your left hand and gently hammer on some notes on the lower strings and you will see that the noise appears without any finger picking or strumming.


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#22 edstar1960

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:19 AM

I don't use a POD anymore ,but, that's another story. I hear it and I get the same using a JTV69 direct into a recorder. It occurs on the low strings more than others. I use a plectrum but a very thin one and I use it very lightly. I believe, as has been said, it's down to the nature of the model/attack. It happens on the other reso position but not as pronounced, you are not alone.

 

Thanks for your response and for reassuring me that others also have this issue.  I agree with you that I think it's an integral part of the model.  I even get it when I only use my left hand and gently hammer on some notes on the lower strings - the noise appears and there's no finger picking or strumming going on.


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#23 diggerbarnz

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 11:35 AM

I've got same issue - only acoustic models & ONLY the G string...


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#24 diggerbarnz

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:14 PM

Here's my banjo settings and the HD500 patch for those who are interested. If anyone would like more detail please feel free to ask. 

 

Note that the graphic is first in the chain, the parametric is second in the chain. It's not set up that way further down, but the chain has the GEQ first.

 

YodBDfS.jpg

 

 

Wow - thanks for this - I used a combination of this & Sean Haleys acoustic patch...took out the vintage pre & WALLA...I'm NOT getting any popping on all acoustics/reso's! - 2 freakin years into it lol


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#25 diggerbarnz

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 12:29 PM

tried to upload my "attempt" to fix - but something strange is amidst the web-world...in custom tones I named it daganpopp - see if anyone is able to d/l & try it - works for me thanks to posters here:)


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#26 johnnyayyy

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 04:21 PM

I have a JTV59 and I am still on 1.71 flash and I play with VDI connected to HD500. I have used the banjo model before without any issues but have not needed it for last 8 months or so, but needed it again this weekend. When I used it I noticed a distinct popping sound that seemed to occur at the same time as the initial pick attack. It seemed far more pronounced on the A and D strings and not really noticeable on the B and high E. If I played really gently then I could avoid it but normal play it was there. It wasn't on every pick but it would come and go as I played and was very obvious. I switched everything off and on a few times and it was still there. I have no idea what is causing it. It does not occur with any other model sounds. Has anyone else had the same issue with the banjo model? And if so, did you identify the problem? And did you find a fix? Thanks.

 

 

Plug in your guitar. Turn it up to a decent level. Instead of playing, grip one string at a time near the bridge pickup and pul it fron side to side to put tension on the piezo saddle. You should see the saddle moving back and forth in the slot on the bridge. When the saddle strikes the side of the bridge slot it will make a loud popping sound.

 

The only way around this is to either:

 

1. Play gently

 

or

 

2. replace your poorly designed/sloppily manufactured POS Tyler bridge with a nice high quality GraphTech like this one:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item4611e7c279


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#27 edstar1960

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 01:12 AM

Plug in your guitar. Turn it up to a decent level. Instead of playing, grip one string at a time near the bridge pickup and pul it fron side to side to put tension on the piezo saddle. You should see the saddle moving back and forth in the slot on the bridge. When the saddle strikes the side of the bridge slot it will make a loud popping sound.

 

The only way around this is to either:

 

1. Play gently

 

or

 

2. replace your poorly designed/sloppily manufactured POS Tyler bridge with a nice high quality GraphTech like this one:

 

http://www.ebay.com/...=item4611e7c279

 

Thank you for the tip and the pointer!   Have you installed one of these cool looking bridges?   Would it just be a straight replacement for the JTV59 bridge - just need a guitar tech to connect up the piezo saddles to the JTV electronics?

Thanks.


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#28 edstar1960

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 02:25 AM

tried to upload my "attempt" to fix - but something strange is amidst the web-world...in custom tones I named it daganpopp - see if anyone is able to d/l & try it - works for me thanks to posters here:)

 

Thanks for the update.  So you are saying that you have cured the "popping" issue with a custom built patch?


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#29 edstar1960

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 02:33 AM

tried to upload my "attempt" to fix - but something strange is amidst the web-world...in custom tones I named it daganpopp - see if anyone is able to d/l & try it - works for me thanks to posters here:)

 

I found your tone using this link:  http://line6.com/cus...ile/diggerbarnz


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#30 diggerbarnz

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 05:15 AM

Thanks for the update.  So you are saying that you have cured the "popping" issue with a custom built patch?

Thought I had Edstar....still slight pop on "A" but I have doubled my volume/clarity etc...I may be going about things the wrong way(mixer panned @ 0 instead of full left & right) but I'm truly happy w/results


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#31 edstar1960

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 06:10 AM

Thought I had Edstar....still slight pop on "A" but I have doubled my volume/clarity etc...I may be going about things the wrong way(mixer panned @ 0 instead of full left & right) but I'm truly happy w/results

 

I am going to give it a try later and see how I get on .... I will report back ...


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#32 ColonelForbin

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 09:24 AM


2. replace your poorly designed/sloppily manufactured POS Tyler bridge with a nice high quality GraphTech like this one:

 

 

 

Is there any info on the comparison between the Korean bridge vs something like this GraphTech, vs the bridge used in the American / USA built JTV?

 

For instance, it does appear that one of the principal issues with the standard JTV piezo is the possibility of overloading and causing 'quack' or other unwanted noise.

 

Does anyone know what is entailed with swapping the JTV bridge with this option, and does it work properly with the Variax system? OR for that matter, what are the buying options for purchasing a bridge (if it's different) that is offered on the USA / Custom shop JTV59 model.

 

From the GraphTech description:

 

"Ghost pickups contain a custom engineered piezo crystals that is encapsulated in a set of String Saver saddles. The ghost saddle pickups have a natural compression effect so you can play as hard as you want without overloading the input channel or experiencing the dreaded piezo "Quack".

Pickups are individually calibrated so you get a precision-balanced set of ghost saddles, for even string to string output. Any set of ghost pickups can be used in conjunction with any ghost preamp kit as well as many others on the market."


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#33 johnnyayyy

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 09:27 AM

Thank you for the tip and the pointer!   Have you installed one of these cool looking bridges?   Would it just be a straight replacement for the JTV59 bridge - just need a guitar tech to connect up the piezo saddles to the JTV electronics?

Thanks.

 

I have installed GraphTech TOM bridges on my Variax transplants but have not installed one of these wraparound bridges, I do not know if it will just pop on with no mods or whether you would have to change the mounting posts. I measured my JTV bridge and the post spacing is the same.

 

Once the briodge is mounted the only other thing to do would be connect the piezo wires. The GraphTech piezos have higher output than the older Variax piezos, do not know how they compare to the JTV piezos but if they have greater output you would also have to make adjustments in Workbench - I had to do this for both of my Variax transplants, a quick and easy adjustment.

 

If I end up keeping my JTV I will definitely install one of these, still haven't decided whether to sell.


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#34 johnnyayyy

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 09:29 AM

Is there any info on the comparison between the Korean bridge vs something like this GraphTech, vs the bridge used in the American / USA built JTV?

 

As I recall the US and Korean JTVs have the same bridge.

 

Have not heard of anyone installing the GraphTech wraparound bridge on a JTV so no info there.

 

If I ever get around to doing it I will post pics and info here.


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#35 diggerbarnz

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:31 AM

Well... I THOUGHT I had things good....other models are poppin now -  I did notice however that they only seem to do it in alternate tunings, which is unfortunate as I have my sets divided into 1/2 steps & full steps to save throat

 

This is truly disheartening. . .maybe I didn't have things LOUD enough - elec models are popping too BUT.. I did notice that it only seems to happen w/alternate tunings - standard is fine & out of my 2 JTV's..only the 69 is behaving poorly.

I pray that there's a "firmware fix" for this OR Line 6 should step up & correct the bridge if need be for warranty holders.

 

I'm gonna keep talkin here till Saturday - then my gig will be over & nuthin else happening - but I really want to remedy & understand this!

 

When POD is not used as in. .  working from workbench - popping is NOT an issue, so why that clarity doesn't translate straight to pod is where the problem lies

When I attempted to adjust popping A & G strings volume..I lowered them 20 points or so & things were worse.


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#36 edstar1960

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 12:42 AM

Well... I THOUGHT I had things good....other models are poppin now -  I did notice however that they only seem to do it in alternate tunings, which is unfortunate as I have my sets divided into 1/2 steps & full steps to save throat

 

This is truly disheartening. . .maybe I didn't have things LOUD enough - elec models are popping too BUT.. I did notice that it only seems to happen w/alternate tunings - standard is fine & out of my 2 JTV's..only the 69 is behaving poorly.

I pray that there's a "firmware fix" for this OR Line 6 should step up & correct the bridge if need be for warranty holders.

 

I'm gonna keep talkin here till Saturday - then my gig will be over & nuthin else happening - but I really want to remedy & understand this!

 

When POD is not used as in. .  working from workbench - popping is NOT an issue, so why that clarity doesn't translate straight to pod is where the problem lies

When I attempted to adjust popping A & G strings volume..I lowered them 20 points or so & things were worse.

 

Sorry to hear that you are having such bad problems with your JTV69.    I hope you do manage to get it resolved and that Line 6 will assist you in that.

It is interesting that you say the problem does not manifest itself when you are connected direct to Workbench.  How are you monitoring the sound when connected direct?

 

Also - what fw levels are your JTV69 and JTV59?  What fw level is your HD500 at ?

Does the popping happen with all patches on your HD500 or only on some?


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#37 diggerbarnz

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 05:43 AM

Not gonna get away w/this w/out sounding dumb...here I go

monitoring w/bose L1 system - fw? physically, the master knob on pod is around 65% - I believe most patches are doing it & as I mentioned, ONLY in alt tuning


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#38 edstar1960

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:50 AM

Not gonna get away w/this w/out sounding dumb...here I go

monitoring w/bose L1 system - fw? physically, the master knob on pod is around 65% - I believe most patches are doing it & as I mentioned, ONLY in alt tuning

 

fw = firmware or flash level - in other words the software running on each of your JTVs and on the HD500.

 

So if you connect up to Workbench and listen to output direct to Bose L1 then you don't get any popping - but if you introduce the HD500 into the chain then the popping starts?  Is that correct understanding of your situation?

Are you using normal workbench or workbench HD when you don't get the popping?

 

Thanks


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#39 diggerbarnz

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 07:44 AM

ah - lol...all latest version firmware - hd ver workbench - you are correct in assumption


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#40 edstar1960

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 07:56 AM

ah - lol...all latest version firmware - hd ver workbench - you are correct in assumption

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

It is interesting that you only get the problem with your JTV69 into HD500 - but it's fine if you go direct and also your JTV59 does not have the problem.

I have the problem just on the banjo sound on my JTV59 into the HD500 and going direct.

 

Maybe we actually have different problems but just the same manifestation of an issue in terms of the popping noise.


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