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Hd500 With Behringer B210d And Xenyx802 Mixer - Tips

hd500 b210d xenyx802 tips

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#1 edstar1960

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 08:33 AM

I have recently bought some Behring B210D active PA speakers as I wanted a Full Range stereo speaker setup that was affordable and portable. They fitted the bill. However - it has taken me days to tweak settings to get a decent sound from my HD500 through the B210Ds.  So, I thought I would share my settings on this forum just in case anyone else has a similar setup in the hope that it may save them many hours of effort trying to get a good sound. 

 

The settings below are for home practice level - the bass and treble settings may need to be lowered further when use at rehearsal or gig volume levels.  Also I am only using one speaker in this setup and using a mono-configuration just to get the sound right. You can of course use two speakers and configure in stereo if you prefer. And you can use a different mixer and adjust my suggested settings for the mixer accordingly.

 

HD500 settings

 

Global Output set to Studio/Direct

Individual patch levels:

  Mixer levels set near to 0db  - maybe +1 to +2db for clean amps and -1 to -2db for overdrive amps and for acoustic maybe as high as +8db

  Channel/amp volume set plus or minus 5% of it's default setting - try to avoid pushing this up as it can easily lead to internal clipping

Master Volume set to MAX

 

The L+R xlr outputs from HD500 are connected via a Y lead to one of the Xenyx 802 mic inputs.  (You can choose to use separate leads and use both mic channels on the mixer if you prefer - but remember to have controls on both channels set the same and pan them L and R if you want the stereo separation)

 

Xenyx 802 mic channel settings

 

Trim control set to 9 o'clock to give a little bit of boost and warmth using it's onboard channel pre-amp

High EQ (12kHz) control set to 10 o'clock ,  cutting the high end by an extra few db's.

Mid and Low EQ's remain at 12 o'clock

Channel volume control at 12 o'clock (0db)

 

Master volume control at 12 o'clock (0db) or 1 o'clock if you like a it more volume at home

 

Master L+R out connected via Y lead to jack to XLR converter and then XLR to B210D input  (you can just use jack to jack and choose to only have L or R output, but the I would ensure input channel is panned completely to the side that you choose to ensure you get full signal)

 

B210D settings

 

Master Volume control set at 9 o'clock

High EQ set to 7 o'clock  (yes - that is almost all the way back to -15db!)

Low EQ set to just between 7 and 8 o'clock.  (yes - that is almost all the way back to -15db!)

 

 

RESULTS

 

I have found the above settings have given me decent results at home practice level.  Nice acoustic sounds, nice clean amp sounds and nice overdriven sounds. Remember LOW and HIGHS may very well need to be reduced further for rehearsal or gig volume levels as we over compensate these at low volume levels.

 

EDITED 8Nov13 ***

NB:  The above settings and results were arrived at with the B210D speaker on the floor. When I placed the B210D on a PA speaker stand at head height, these settings were all wrong!  I had to readjust as follows (other settings not explicitly mentioned remained the same):

 

HD500 patch settings:

I adjusted LOW CUT on amp/speaker DEP's to 50HZ

I adjusted THUMP to taste - all patches moved up in value - most back to default 50% - some only to 30 or 40%

I adjusted SAG, BIAS and BIAS EXCURSION to taste - many times moving back to default values of 50%

Some patches I also adjusted amp bass/mid/treble controls slightly.

For my acoustic model patch, I no longer needed the graphic and parametric EQ's that I had used before.

 

Xenyx 802 mic channel:

 

High EQ (12khz) set to 12 o'clock

Mid EQ (2.5khz) set to 9 o'clock

Low EQ (80hz) set to 12 o'clock

 

B210D:

 

High EQ set to 9 o'clock

Low EQ set to 12 o'clock

 

EDITED 8Nov13 *** END ***

 

EDITED 19Nov13 *** START ***

NB: OK - update on earlier posts - I have finally discovered what I have been doing wrong thanks to Lorenzo (user id: perapera) and his extremely informative posts on signal routing in the HD500 and differences between balanced and unbalanced outputs.

 

HD500 Connections:

JTV59 with VDI to VARIAX input

1/4 inch jack cable from L/MONO output on HD500 to mic channel input on mixer.  (This ensures I capture both L+R outputs correctly summed to MONO - NB: DO NOT USE A Y CABLE EXTERNALLY to SUM HD500 L+R outputs - either balanced or unbalanced).

 

HD500 Settings:

Global output set to Studio/Direct

Set switch for 1/4inch outputs on front of HD500 to LINE  (not AMP!!)

 

HD500 Patch Settings:
Ensure MIXER outputs are panned as per defaults which is 100% L and 100% R (knobs 3 and 4 on the display)
NB: This ensures signal levels are NOT doubled up!  Values of 0% (center pan) will double the signal level at this point!

 

Xenyx 802 connections:

MASTER "L" out jack to jack input of B210D

 

Xenyx 802 mic channel:

Trim control set to 9'oclock

High EQ (12khz) set to just past 10 o'clock

Mid EQ (2.5khz) set to 11 o'clock

Low EQ (80hz) set to 12 o'clock

Pan set to full "L" - 7 o'clock

Channel Level set to 0 db- 12 o'clock

Master Level set to 0 db - 12 o'clock

 

B210D:

Level set to 9 o'clock

High EQ set to 12 o'clock

Low EQ set to 12 o'clock

 

 

EDITED 19Nov13 *** END ***

 

STILL NOT HAPPY WITH SOUND?

Further tweaking may be required on the HD500 patch in the Amp Deep Editing parameters if you find the results overly boomy or harsh sounding even after tweaking the LOW and HIGH EQs a little to taste.  (NB: just a little movement in the B210D EQ's settings, eg: +1db, can have quite a dramatic effect on the HD500 sound).  I have found many useful tips in this forum and from reading MEAMBOBBO's POD HD guide - and also Sean Halley's excellent Line6 BLOG video on SAG, BIAS and BIAS EXCURSION  so many thanks to all of those who have shared their advice on this forum.

From that background research, I found that adjusting the following AMP DEP's further refined the sound of the HD500 models through the B210D speaker:

 SAG:  Default 50% but reducing to about 35% for distorted tones "stiffens" response (but  harsher sounding) and increasing it makes it more appear more compressed (but softer sounding)- adjust to taste

 BIAS:  Default 50% - but experiment with this to see how it affects the sound - it can make the highs really stand out and soften the honky middle - adjust to taste

 BIAS EXCURSION: Default 50% - but experiment with this to see how it affects the sounds - it can make the highs really stand out and soften the honky middle - adjust to taste

 ER: Default is about 12% but reduce this to 0% and add necessary reverb to taste with a reverb effect model.

 LOW CUT:   Default is 20K allowing very low bass through - so increase to taste if you need to remove low end boom

 RESONANCE LEVEL: Default is 50% but moving up to 55-60% for over driven amps helps smooth out tone, and moving down to 40-45% or lower helps make clean amps sound really crisp

 THUMP: Default is 50% but if low end is over powering then try lowering 5% at a time to reduce the low end. NB: Lowering this too far can make the amp sound very thin. I found I need this at a reasonable level to maintain the meatiness and warmth of the amp tone.

 

I hope this is helpful, allowing others to get good results quickly and hopefully saving hours of tweaking!


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#2 radatats

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 08:32 AM

why throw the mixer in the middle?  are you adding vocals or other instruments to the mix?  otherwise I would just go straight to the speakers and not introduce any other possible noise or coloring to the signal. 

 

thanks for the tips though! ;)


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#3 edstar1960

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:54 AM

Hi radatats,

 

The mixer is essential for getting a good level to drive the B210D to a decent volume.  Without it, the HD500 just cannot create enough volume through the B210D, even though it is rated as a 200W speaker.  But with the mixer, boosting the signal you can drive the B210D to decent levels to compete in a band environment.  Plus, the mic preamp of the mixer input channel adds warmth to the tone output from the HD500 which is also needed IMO. 


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#4 edstar1960

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:54 AM

Further refinements:

 

In an effort to address an odd nasal overtone on the D (4th) string of my JTV59, I changed my string volumes under Workbench to the following:

 

E (6) - 0.85

A (5) - 0.65

D (4) - 0.60

G (3) - 0.80

B (2) - 0.90

E (1) - 0.75

 

This "cleaned" up a lot of sounds on my HD500 patches - everything sounded better - perhaps because the strings were not over driving the input volumes for the amp models?  I don't know - but certainly all patches sounded better - more realistic and less digital harshness.

 

I also experimented with the SAG, BIAS and BIAS excursion values some more.  I have settled on SAG at about 60% for most of my amp patches - it gives a slightly softer more rounded sound to my playing to my ears.

I have discovered that a high BIAS value greatly coupled with a low BIAS EXCURSION value greatly reduces the fizz (or crossover distortion) that is present for the over driven amp sounds - even the mild ones like AC15. This "fizz" really stands out with full range PA speakers and is really almost impossible to EQ out with simple EQ controls - so without a multi band EQ available the BIAS adjustments did the trick.  For my AC15 I ended up with BIAS at 80% or higher and BIAS EXCURSION at 0%.  For the more over driven amp sounds like MARSHALL or SOLDANO, I found that 60-70% BIAS and about 40% BIAS EXCURSION was fine to my ears.

 

Hope these tips help.


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#5 frimpy63

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:17 PM

I would have to disagree with the necessity of the mixer. I have had much better luck with going straight to the behringer speakers. Mine are 12" rather than 10". Of course now I own a Bose L1 model 2 so I don't use the Behringers any more. The Bose system sounds phenomenal.


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#6 bignath

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 08:09 PM

The mixer is essential for getting a good level to drive the B210D to a decent volume.  Without it, the HD500 just cannot create enough volume through the B210D, even though it is rated as a 200W speaker.

 

Completely disagree. I own the B212D (the 12inch version) of that powered speaker, and I have no trouble getting "hear this from a block away) volume.

 

I play in a LOUD rock cover band through a big PA with 15in EV top boxes and 18in EV subs both sides of the stage, and I run my behringer monitor behind me at a distance of maybe 6-8 feet. Volume is maybe just over 1/3 up, bass and treble at noon, and it punches out plenty of volume to keep up with the rest of our live rig. Cant imagine the difference between the 10 and the 12 would be that much???

 

Of course I could be completely wrong though...


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#7 edstar1960

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:00 AM

Thanks for the response bignath.  The B210D is only rated at 200W but the B212D is rated at 400W - so it is double the power, plus the larger speaker will push more air and will project more and sound even louder still.  If you read the data on the Behringer site about the B2xxD series they actually go on to explain the difference in volume for each speaker size and it's relative effects.

 

I tried my HD500 with MAX volume out, and boosting with the HD500 mixer stage to +6db or more for some amps, and the B210D just wasn't producing or projecting the HD500 patch sound at the necessary level.  It was loud but thin.  Putting the mixer in between, gives it more warmth, more depth and ore volume enabling me to realise the 200W rating of the B210D. (I suppose there is a possibility that the HD500 could be faulty? And it is not generating the right output signal level?) I must admit I did think at the time whether I should have gone for the B212D, but decided I wouldn't need 400W and I liked the idea of small portable speakers, but I am now regretting that decision and wishing I had opted for the B212Ds as the extra power is needed to punch through at gigs with a true representation of the HD500 patch.  But I am hoping the Xenyx 802 with B210D combo will be enough - but its a while until my next gig so I can't try it out yet, so I am just dialling in what I hope will be good gig level tones.    If they don't sound great at the next gig with full band then I will have to sell them and upgrade to the B212D or go upmarket and get a Stagesource l2m - that baby has 800W and feeback on the forum is excellent but it is a fair bit more expensive at over twice the price of a B212D.    :)


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#8 bignath

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 04:11 AM

Thanks for the response bignath.  The B210D is only rated at 200W but the B212D is rated at 400W - so it is double the power, plus the larger speaker will push more air and will project more and sound even louder still.  If you read the data on the Behringer site about the B2xxD series they actually go on to explain the difference in volume for each speaker size and it's relative effects.


Really? 400w? Well that explains my ease at using the 12 inch.

Sorry mate, i wouldnt ever have thought that they would be rated at twice the volume for a two inch size increase.
I stand corrected.

Im sure there are better systems for the pods than the behringers (stagesource to name one of many options) so yeah, if your continually not happy with current setup, and you can afford them then they'd be great.

I am very new to the world of modellers, having spent the last two decades with amps and stomps, but what i bought the behringer 212d for was more a home patch creation setup to get me close to a live pa useable tone, then mild tweak at rehearsals. As it turns out though, it seems to work quite well in my band setting too, which is a bonus.

Hope you get a setup that you're happy with soon!

Cheers,

BN
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GEAR STUFF:

PRS Custom 22 w/Birds - MIM 60's Players Strat - Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - POD HD500X - Ungodly amount of stomps....

 

"1 - Cut a hole in a box. 2 - Put your junk in the box. 3 - Make her open the box......and that's the way you do it" - D!#k In A Box (The Lonely Island)

 


#9 edstar1960

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 04:43 AM

No worries bignath.  Thanks for your input - much appreciated.   Glad to know that the B212D works in a band environment as it is a possible future option - but I have to say I am very tempted by the Stagesource l2m.  But maybe the B210D setup will be good enough. We will see...


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#10 guitarno

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 05:14 AM

 

I tried my HD500 with MAX volume out, and boosting with the HD500 mixer stage to +6db or more for some amps, and the B210D just wasn't producing or projecting the HD500 patch sound at the necessary level.  It was loud but thin.  Putting the mixer in between, gives it more warmth, more depth and ore volume enabling me to realise the 200W rating of the B210D. (I suppose there is a possibility that the HD500 could be faulty? And it is not generating the right output signal level?) I must admit I did think at the time whether I should have gone for the B212D, but decided I wouldn't need 400W and I liked the idea of small portable speakers, but I am now regretting that decision and wishing I had opted for the B212Ds as the extra power is needed to punch through at gigs with a true representation of the HD500 patch.

 

 

   Are you using the 1/4" outs on the HD500? I'm a little supprised you can't get enough volume without another gain stage between that and the speakers. 200 Watts (per side, right, so 400 total?) is not a lot these days but it should still get you there without being maxxed out.

 

   How are the switches on top next to the master volume set? "Guitar In" not set to "pad"? 1/4" Out switch set to "Line" not "Amp" ???


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#11 edstar1960

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 06:37 AM

Hi guitarno - I use the XLR outs.  I used a Y lead to take both L and R to one XLR lead which I then connected to the back of the B210D. I had the B210D at max line level and wasn't get a decent enough volume at rehearsal with the band. I tried using the HD500 mixer levels to boost the patch levels but ended up just over driving the input level to the B210D.  I use a JTV59 and therefore the GUITAR IN is not used, so the GUITAR IN switch should not be relevant and besides I normally don't have it set to pad.  I can't explain it but putting the Xenyx 802 in between allows me to add both warmth and volume to the HD500 output without overdriving the B210D. I can set the B210D line level to about 50% and have the mixer master set to 0 which gives me the ability to boost it quite significantly if needed.

 

EDITED 19 Nov 13:   NB:  I have only now discovered that using a Y lead is NOT a good idea and is the WRONG thing to do for many reasons - so definitely not recommended!  Instead just use either the L or R unbalanced 1/4 inch jack outputs.  If you just use one then you will get both the HD500 L+R signals correctly and safely summed to MONO for your use.   If you are routing to a mixer or direct to a powered PA speaker then ensure you have the 1/4" out switch on the front of the HD500 set to LINE and Global Output set to Studio/Direct, if you are routing to a guitar amp then leave it set to AMP and have your Global Output set to appropriate value of STACK or COMBO etc.   

Many thanks to user perapera for putting me straight!


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#12 guitarno

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 07:21 AM

   Well, if you're using the XLR's and the VDI input, I guess neither of those switches apply. I also use a JTV-59 for my main guitar with a HD500X. If the mixer gives you a little more warmth & the extra gain you need with the B210D's then that's great, just seems surprising that you wouldn't get enough volume. When I use the JTV for acoustic models with patches set up for acoustic, in some cases without an amp model, it can be more difficult to get  a higher clean volume level, but not so much with electric sounds using amp models.

 

   Thanks for posting your tips & settings. I have a long way to go before I have all this figured out as I am new to this gear. There are so many interactive settings to be considered when trying to fine tune your sound. It really helps that people here like you are willing to share ideas. B)


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#13 edstar1960

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 03:23 AM

   Well, if you're using the XLR's and the VDI input, I guess neither of those switches apply. I also use a JTV-59 for my main guitar with a HD500X. If the mixer gives you a little more warmth & the extra gain you need with the B210D's then that's great, just seems surprising that you wouldn't get enough volume. When I use the JTV for acoustic models with patches set up for acoustic, in some cases without an amp model, it can be more difficult to get  a higher clean volume level, but not so much with electric sounds using amp models.

 

   Thanks for posting your tips & settings. I have a long way to go before I have all this figured out as I am new to this gear. There are so many interactive settings to be considered when trying to fine tune your sound. It really helps that people here like you are willing to share ideas. B)

 

My pleasure guitarno - thanks for your kind words - I am happy to share my experiences and knowledge and hope that it helps others get the best out of their gear   Please note the updates I have just made to this thread in light of some recent revelations regarding the signal routing of the HD500.  I am hoping that I have cracked it at last!


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