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Stagescape Speakers Limiter


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#1 JeffersteinVS

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:07 AM

How bad is it for the devices to hit the limiter fairly frequently during a performance? i noticed that at our last show we had them at about 75 percent on the speakers and at about 0db on the md20d (all hooked up l6) and the limiter lights were going off on the speakers. Not looking to damage anything.


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#2 RonMarton

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 01:25 PM

...Not looking to damage anything.

 

That, right there, is the really good news ! 

 

The whole point of those limiters "kicking in" is that they make it pretty near impossible for signal overload to damage the amazing speaker system.

 

As for "How bad is it... ?", your ears will be the best judge.

 

Given the dynamic controls that you will have already set operating in your M20d, consistent "flashing" on the loudest peaks is merely an indicator that you are operating your StageSource speakers at their maximum limit, …with any "harshness" and/or "pumping" and/or lack of "attack" being your ears telling you that readjustment is necessary.  

 

I would, however, strongly suggest that "forcing" an "across the board" increase in levels at your M20d's inputs by means of "rebalancing" that rig to work at the same levels, but with the M20d channel strip and speaker input level controls set to their "unity" and "high noon" positions respectively, (for the speakers, pointing directly at those "Limiter" LEDs) would definitely be a FAR better way to operate.

 

It often takes us a (very) short while for that "rethink" to become "second nature", but operating that way ensures that our overall "gain structure" is set to obtain the very best results at every point of our inputs/recording/auxiliaries/outputs "chain". 


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#3 dboomer

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 08:16 PM

If you run your speakers turned up to 75% then the mixer's meters are not directly related to the speaker's outputs.  Run the speakers at the 12 o'clock click stop and then what you see on the meters is what is happening at the speakers themselves.  The maximum output from the speakers isn't affected by doing it your way ... but you are increasing the background hiss/noise level unnecessarily by doing it.

 

To answer your question "how bad is it" depends on what you mean.  You are probably not causing any damage to the speakers themselves but your sonic quality is diminishing by doing so too much.  You are essentially running out of dynamic range.

 

There is a little built-in trick you should try.  Select the L/R output to tweak by touching the meter on the right hand side of the screen (in setup mode).  Now touch the tweak button.  You are now able to tweak the output.  now touch the folder up on the top row slightly to the left of center.  This will allow you to select "output presets".  There is one there called "Punchy PA".  This preset essentially applies a "mastering software" to the L/R output and will make your system sound much louder without actually having more amplifier power.  This is a much better solution than having the speakers hit the limiters too frequently.

 

Let us know how this works for you.



#4 tochiro

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 11:18 PM

I wish there were presets for the limiter (and the compressor) for those who do not know exactly how to use it...


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#5 dboomer

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 05:52 AM

I wish there were presets for the limiter (and the compressor) for those who do not know exactly how to use it...

 

Good news ... they already are there and you don't have to do or adjust anything.  They are embedded in many of the input presets and also on the output presets.



#6 SiWatts69

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 02:37 PM

Any guidance on the other two clicks on the speaker gain sweeps? I've noticed clicks at about 10 to and 10 past. Do these clicks signify anything particular?


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#7 RonMarton

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 03:00 PM

They're probably intended to provide easily re-settable "reference points" for quickly "repeating" the calibration of metering and gain when using other makers' control systems, along the lines that Don mentioned earlier in this discussion...

 

...Run the speakers at the 12 o'clock click stop and then what you see on the meters is what is happening at the speakers themselves...

 

…with the higher gain "10 past" detent probably suiting quite a range of semi-pro gear (think RCA output sockets) and the lower gain "10 to" detent better suiting either older "pro" gear or similar high level outputs that may have originally been intended to drive telco lines and/or headphones.


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