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Not Happy With Line 6 Support And My M13


Best Answer scormier , 08 November 2013 - 08:25 AM

Ok thanks to a response on the Line 6 Facebook page, I figured out the issue and fixed this myself.

 

Really silly design flaw. It was a loose ribbon connector between two circuit boards. There is goop on all connections to keep them connected (except this one). So I had to remove all the knobs, all the 1/4 jacks and then about 20 screws, and 2 circuit boards to get at this. And get this, it is not even a push in end for this cable, it is a cable that lays flat on a bracket with teeth that pierce through the ribbon cable (this was the crappy made culprit to my issue).

 

As for reporting the service shop, the guy working there is my friend, and was having a serious off the record type of conversation with me about products in general. Line 6 was not the only product talk poorly about.

 

Thanks for everyone's help. I think I have a few web forum questions to answer now that we know the fix lol

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#1 scormier

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:39 AM

Hi,

 

Just finished a call with Line 6 support and I am not happy at all.

 

History:

I have a Line 6 M13, and after working issue free for 1 year the unit started to power off and on its own and the display would go all crazy(half of each display was not showing).

After doing some research, found out others have the exact same issue, that is resolved by resetting the unit back to factory defaults and then reapply the firmware and then re-add your patches.

 

This fix worked for 6 months then the unit started to act up again. I applied the same steps to fix it, but this time it only lasted for a month. I applied the fix again and it would only last for a few hours.

 

This time I called Line 6 support. After waiting over 20min (during a slow period??) I spoke with a agent who was rather condescending. He explained that he had not heard of this issue. I asked him to do a Google search on the issue, in a couple of minutes he found 5 different web posts on this similar issue, but according to this tech, this unit I have is an older product and that if it it was really an issue there would be more than 5 posts. I have since found over 10.

 

He told me it is not software related and that it is a hardware issue and that I would have to bring it into a service shop.

 

I called the service shop and based on my units behavior, if it is a hardware issue that it would be serviceable as the parts on the unit aside form switched are not serviceable. They told me most people buy Line 6 products because it is feature rich but cheap in price, and use it until it breaks then it is a throw away device??? They told me not rely on Line 6 products as an essential part of my rig due to their lack of reliability.

 

I am out now several $100's of dollars, have spent way to many hours resetting this device to be told that it is not that big of an issue and that I am at my own.

 

At this point it sounds like Line 6 likes to sell their products but not support them afterwards.

 

I got no sense of value from my contact with support. The agent had his mind made up that he would not be able to help me and wanted to send me off on a wild chase with a service dept. Good thing I know the people at this service shop and they were honest with me, understanding that anything I would do now with this device will cost me money without any guarantee on a permanent fix.

 

Very sad. At this point I am looking at the TC Electronics stuff as they appear to support their products better with their customers.

 

Please note that I have had 5 other Line 6 products and have had problems with 3 of the past devices. I should have known better but thought that this company would stand behind their products. Maybe next time around avoid all the extra bells and whistles and put out a stable product that is not filled with bugs and issues.

 

The worst thing is I helped Line 6 sell 5 of theses devices to my bands Bass Player, and other musician friends based on my recommendation. I really hope they don't break like mine.

 

I was a loyal customer who is now planning on preaching the problems with Line 6 devices and its support system, unless I can get some sort of value for my product with Line 6.

 

Hopefully the moderators will see this as my last and only option for some sort of resolution.

 

Regretfully yours,

Shawn


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#2 phil_m

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:17 AM

Well, the power looping issue was something of a systemic issue that affected a relatively small number of M13s... Firmware version 2.04 seems to have done the trick to eradicate the problem for the vast majority of people, though. Is that the version of firmware that you have loaded? If not, getting that installed would be the first order of business.


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#3 scormier

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:30 AM

Hi Phil,

 

Yes the latest firmware was applied. Everytime I had the issue I went to Line6.com and downloaded the latest firmware each time.


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#4 phil_m

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:39 AM

So you've reloaded your scenes back onto the unit after re-installing the firmware? I think I would recommend against doing that just in case you have a corrupted preset. I would try re-flashing and just start from a blank slate. It's a pain, I know, but it's worth trying. If none of that works, it could be an actual hardware issue. So just to check - are you using the power supply that came with the M13?


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#5 scormier

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:43 AM

Hi Phil,

 

Thanks for your help here. 


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#6 RonMarton

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:08 PM

...This time I called Line 6 support. After waiting over 20min (during a slow period??) I spoke with a agent who was rather condescending. He explained that he had not heard of this issue. I asked him to do a Google search on the issue, in a couple of minutes he found 5 different web posts on this similar issue, but according to this tech, this unit I have is an older product and that if it it was really an issue there would be more than 5 posts. I have since found over 10...

 

IMHO, Shawn...

 

...in the event that your account of that response (or lack of it) is indeed accurate,  it would seem to be absolutely inexcusable...

 

…whereas phil_m's response is entirely in keeping with the considerate caring that I've come to expect from the Line 6 community.

 

Regarding this...

 

…I called the service shop.. 

 

...They told me most people buy Line 6 products because they are feature rich but cheap in price, and use it until it breaks then it is a throw away device??? They told me not rely on Line 6 products as an essential part of my rig due to their lack of reliability...

 

…As someone who's been involved in technical operations, (hence maintenance and servicing) for nearly half a century, I feel that this may be a consequence of an individual service centre not necessarily being able to see the "big picture", in that what's perceived as a high failure rate (based on the arrival of a large amount of gear from a given manufacturer) may have arisen from a tiny percentage of failures in a staggeringly high number of units that were sold, precisely because...

 

...they are feature rich but cheap in price...

 

The same may well apply to an online search for reported failures.

 

None of which is to say that Line 6 (or any other manufacturer) doesn't occasionally suffer a batch of products that have problems on release, or incompetent local representation.

 

You should also bear in mind, Shawn, that (in common with many who've been given the "Line 6 Expert" tag in these forums) I have neither affiliation with, nor any particular loyalty to Line 6 or any other supplier or manufacturer...

 

…which is why I feel so strongly that Line 6 should immediately investigate that particular service provider.


Edited by RonMarton, 07 November 2013 - 05:56 PM.
Doubt cast by phone logs in respect of the actual response from Line 6's Support Team

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#7 silverhead

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 06:02 PM

How old is your M13? Have you contacted another service/repair centre for a second opinion?


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#8 TheRealZap

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 06:04 PM

Service centers are independent, clearly you had a bad experience with that one... pick another... i've shipped units to service centers before.

it may need a new board, and then the service fee... it may end up being more cost effective to pick up a used unit... unfortunately...

i've been in that boat myself before... not a happy boat... but stuff happens with ALL electronics... 


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#9 RonMarton

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:38 PM

...but stuff happens with ALL electronics... 

 

Never was truer word written, Esteemed Master Of The Universe !


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#10 scormier

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 08:25 AM   Best Answer

Ok thanks to a response on the Line 6 Facebook page, I figured out the issue and fixed this myself.

 

Really silly design flaw. It was a loose ribbon connector between two circuit boards. There is goop on all connections to keep them connected (except this one). So I had to remove all the knobs, all the 1/4 jacks and then about 20 screws, and 2 circuit boards to get at this. And get this, it is not even a push in end for this cable, it is a cable that lays flat on a bracket with teeth that pierce through the ribbon cable (this was the crappy made culprit to my issue).

 

As for reporting the service shop, the guy working there is my friend, and was having a serious off the record type of conversation with me about products in general. Line 6 was not the only product talk poorly about.

 

Thanks for everyone's help. I think I have a few web forum questions to answer now that we know the fix lol


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#11 RonMarton

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 08:59 AM

...Really silly design flaw...

 

...it is a cable that lays flat on a bracket with teeth that pierce through the ribbon cable (this was the crappy made culprit to my issue)...

 

Three things that I feel might be worthy of your consideration, Shawn...

 

  • There are at least a couple of hundred aircraft over your head at any given time, ALL of which rely on exactly that insulation displacing "teeth" technique to connect various elements within the avionics responsible for their safety,

 

  • The fact that the stompbox in question has survived years both on the road and at your feet before this fault arose is further testimony to the ruggedness of that technique, as well as to the quality of the cost-effective product in question …and...

 

  • The various displays of ignorance, arrogance and short temper that I feel characterised much of your writing on this issue would seem to have had (and in all likelihood, will continue to have) NO bearing on other contributors' cheerful goodwill in their patient attempts to assist you, be those other contributors to this forum Line 6 personnel or "independents" like me.

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#12 scormier

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:56 PM

Wow you really turned this around didn't you.

 

I came on here as I was unhappy with the support I received from Line 6 customer support. They offered no help but to go see someone else. If I would have followed protocol it would have been a gamble with my money on if the thing could be fix, and would have cost me at least 100bucks to have someone do the same thing I just did. I was looking for advice on what to try, not how to deal with my service center.

 

This was not an attack on this community, and to be honest i could of kept my solution to myself and never replied to this forum, however what I learned can be shared with others now looking for an answer to the same issue, which seems to be common online .

 

BTW your aircraft comparison doesn't really work. The electronics on those things are checked and serviced regularly and I should have taken a picture of the way this part was put together on mine, I really hope that person is not building aircraft's. Also this unit was bought by me brand new from a store and played at 1 gig. All the other times it was loaded on a pedal board and travel about 10 feet from its storage locker to the floor of our rehearsal spot. It never got banged around or dropped in its life. Its strange that all the other cables are attached with an epoxy or goop of some sort. The affected cable did not have this material on it, so that means it was either missed (bad workmanship) or it was as designed (design flaw).

 

I can understand as a moderator here you are passionate about Line6. But please don't get aggressive with me, I spoke from the heart about my actual experience and maybe your time would be better spent answering other peoples questions rather than talk down to me.

 

Best Regards,

Shawn


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#13 scormier

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:59 PM

BTW the best answer is not your condescending response but the one I added stating:

 It was a loose ribbon connector between two circuit boards. There is goop on all connections to keep them connected (except this one). So I had to remove all the knobs, all the 1/4 jacks and then about 20 screws, and 2 circuit boards to get at this. 

 

Could you please update your self-serving post and Best Reply please.


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#14 TheRealZap

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:11 PM

i'm glad that you put this here for other people to review in the future...

 

but let's not pretend that we experts were not trying to help you... even engaging in a dialogue with the customer support manager behind the scenes on your behalf.

we truly know both sides of this story, and Ron surely meant no offense....

your initial approach/post was very aggressive and frustrated and he merely meant to suggest that your approach was not helping your cause.

that's all i'll say on Ron's behalf as he can certainly speak for himself...

but given the offensive and aggressive nature of your initial posting, i think you've gotten a more excellent community response than you had any right to expect.

 

again, thanks for sharing, i'm glad things worked out for you... and whatever else you think... we here on the forums and the line6 support staff were all trying to help you.


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#15 RonMarton

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:51 PM

...I can understand as a moderator here you are passionate about Line 6...

 

...Not really, Shawn. 

 

If you look at other stuff I've posted, you'll quickly see that (among a huge array of other passions) I'm passionate about top quality performances and the best "toys" for facilitating them, whoever may be making or selling them.

 

...But please don't get aggressive with me...

 

Heartfelt apologies, as aggression was the last thing on my mind.

 

In common with everyone who posts here, (including you) my comments are merely an expression of my opinions …and I'm perfectly willing to admit that my opinions may be wrong.

 

Indeed, I reserve the right to be wrong, …a right that I feel should be extended to all of us mere humans, including those who assemble individual pieces of equipment.

 

(It's also a joy to be able to write about the rite of righting wrongs being a right that mustn't be left.)  :lol:

 

...your initial approach/post was very aggressive and frustrated and he merely meant to suggest that your approach was not helping your cause.

that's all i'll say on Ron's behalf as he can certainly speak for himself...

but given the offensive and aggressive nature of your initial posting, i think you've gotten a more excellent community response than you had any right to expect.

 

…And I do think that's an opinion you'll find is shared by quite a few regular contributors...

 

...and whatever else you think... we here on the forums and the line6 support staff were all trying to help you.

 

We also remain ever willing to help and also ever willing to concede that, in the immortal words of the Time Lord himself:

 

...stuff happens... 

:)


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#16 scormier

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:55 PM

Alright, I've gone and deleted my posts, hope that makes you both happy. If anyone else gets the same issue on here, you 2 can jump in with the solution right away, and avoid that persons frustration.

 

I like using forums because they tend to get everyone's perspective on things, and usually there are some good technical advice thrown in. I really think that Phil M was the only one who actually tried to help, others including yourself could not look past my frustration and help.

 

I was extremely polite to the support person on the call, and in my frustration did not single out any individual here, it was as a customer who was frustrated with the support he received and with the product he purchased.

 

I thanked Phil for his help, which he deserves, what gives you the right to decide what help someone should give or receive, kinda self-serving isn't it. 

 

Next time I'll just say positive things like "Pink Unicorns Dancing on Rainbows" and make everyone fell good about themselves, cause that's how products and support services get better.

 

Again Thanks Phil M!

 

Shawn


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#17 TheRealZap

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 01:58 PM

Issue resolved. locking thread.


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