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Dance Party Rig With Stagesource Speakers?


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#1 billappleton

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 09:45 AM

hi all,

 

what do you think would sound better for an outdoor dance party system?

 

two L2Ms and and one L3S

 

OR

 

two L3Ms

 

a different question is: would two L2Ms and and one L3S sound great? or do I probably need L3Ms with the L3S....

 

 

thanks in advance

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#2 nickinfrance

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 12:24 PM

Really depends on how many people you are trying to cater for? 2 l3ms will have plenty of kick to them. They aren't all that much more than the l2m so you could start with them. Outdoors, and especially with dance music you will probably want a sub though.
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#3 RonMarton

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 12:32 PM

...what do you think would sound better...

 

Well, Bill...

 

To me, the key words there are "what do you think", in that what I "think" (or what anyone else may "think") sounds "better" is often a highly individual choice, …a matter of personal taste.

 

However, I also feel that over forty years of designing, building, operating and touring audio equipment for a huge variety of purposes may mean that I can at least offer a credible "real world" opinion, albeit one that you should feel free to either consider or disregard.

 

My feeling is that, regardless of the style involved, the propagation (or "spread") of bass is absolutely critical for dance applications, because that bass region is where most of the rhythm "lives" …and not only is that rhythm information fundamentally vital for the basic coordination of tempo, but also it's the "heartbeat like" kick drum frequencies that are often the primary motivators of the actual urge to get up and dance.

 

Couple those observations with the facts that 

  1. The bass region is also the first to suffer when speakers are outdoors, lacking an enclosed volume in which to operate and
  2. Subwoofer "energy" (when compared with that from the mid/tops) is the major contributor to any overall impression of "loudness" 

 …and you can see where I'm headed.

 

You guessed it.

 

For any dance application, I honestly reckon that any (possibly) "extra" cash is far better spent on a pair of (or more) "subs", rather than first allocating it to bulkier and (hence) harder to elevate mid-tops.

 

Given that "outdoor" generally also implies "temporary" and/or "touring", having subs not only for "bass", but also as "bases" (for the convenient elevation of pole mounted mid/tops) is a great way to speed the rig and de-rig process, while simultaneously eliminating any need for the separate (and hence more bulky) tripod stands that would otherwise be required to distribute music over a field of gyrating bodies.


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#4 billappleton

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 12:37 PM

Hey thanks guys,

 

I happen to have an L2M already so the cost is about the same either way

 

So I could run one L2M on a stand and one on top of the sub pole

 

maybe i set the L3S to 120 HZ to cover some of the lower bass....

 

im not a pro sound guy we just have lots of parties

 

Best,


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#5 RonMarton

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 12:46 PM

How about you have a listen and play (along the lines you've suggested) with your existing L2M when pole-mounted (and maybe L6-Linked) atop an L3S, ...before parting with any more cash for another "side" ?

 

I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised by the increase in "punch" and overall loudness, to the extent that you may well find yourself able to postpone the remaining purchases.

 

Other than "appearances", most of us find that "stereo" adds very little "value" to most locations.

 

Bass, on the other hand…  :)


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#6 billappleton

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 08:53 PM

Thanks Ron,

 

great idea, i was assuming i HAD to have stereo... i'll post back when things come together


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#7 Digital-sound

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 09:56 PM

I agree with Ron (as I usually do). To me, more is usually better. Not usually for volume, but for quality and fullness. But I do think you can probably do a pretty good job with an L2M and an L3S especially with canned music. It will sound great. While you don't need stereo out, you will need to run stereo in. Because more often than not it seems, the music recorded uses left and right, so without having the left and right plugged into your L2M (which you can do with the RCA inputs) you will of course miss that part of the music that is not plugged in. With the music source plugged into the RCA inputs, and then connecting the sub using the L6 technology, you will have a great system. If it isn't enough, add another L2M. My personal choice, between the 2L3Ms, or 2 L2M's and an L3S, would be the latter. The L3S is an amazing speaker. You will have a great party!


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#8 RonMarton

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 10:10 PM

…And I'm indebted to Digital-sound...

 

...Not just for the kind endorsement, but also for adding that vital "connect both halves" advice that I'd neglected to mention. 


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#9 bassman24

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 02:48 AM

I have asked myself a similar question yesterday and wanted to open a post, but since billappleton has already posted, I hope it´s OK to ask my question here without being killed by the fellow Line6-users :)

 

So, basically I´m thinking of buying the stagesource speakers and I´m also wandering if I would need L2 or L3 speakers in addition to the M20d.

We are a 4-piece acoustic band (Bass, guitar, vocals, percussion) and it´s very unlikely we will do other jobs than playing in pubs or outdoors with more then 500 people in the audience. Since I own now a Lucas XT (which I find very suitable for small, little acoustic gigs in pubs), I will stay to the combination of two tops and a sub. So, the main question is if the L2 tops will do for my kind of music of if it may be a little bit too less for a 500 people audience and I will have to go for the L3. At the moment I am prefering the L2 tops, mainly because I don´t want to stress out my music budget too much in the coming month if it´s not necessary. And from what I read here on the forums I´m pretending the L2 will do the job for me. Going up from 80 Watts to 800 should be a pretty good step in the right direction :)


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#10 SiWatts69

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 05:04 AM

For the first poster, I'd also recommend adding the sub first. Then add a second sub before adding any more top.

Indeed, in all my experience, it is the bass end that gets lost as venues become bigger.

For Bassman24, for front end speakers I,d go for the 3's regardless. I've gor a pair of each but wouldn't consider using the 2's out front unless the venue was tiny. Also, remeber it's got little to do with rated power... I've heard a 15watt guitar amp blow a 500watt amp into the back wall. Real SPL is what counts. I'd get the 3's anyway as much because I'd hate to feel like kicking myself a few months down the line for having not got them originally.
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#11 Digital-sound

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 06:39 AM

If you are happy with using the Lucas XT now, then I suppose the L2M's and an LS3 will do just fine. But for an outdoor, 500 person event, I would definitely want the L3M/T's and 2 L3S's. But, we are a country/rock band. As an acoustic act, maybe the L2M's will be fine with an LS3. If you can test drive them first, that is always best.

My final thought though, is the same as SiWatts....go with the 3's and the sub. You will love it. And they are very well designed for handling. Not like most speakers with a couple handles. These things are a treat to pack around....if any gear is!
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#12 RonMarton

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 12:36 PM

If you are happy with using the Lucas XT now, then I suppose the L2M's and an LS3 will do just fine...

 

I'd go further than that...

 

In spite of being an enthusiastic long-term owner/operator of HK Audio's superbly engineered systems, I must admit that there's absolutely no way that their brilliantly compact and versatile L.U.C.A.S. XT comes close to emulating the "punch", power and flexibility of even the smaller L2 enclosure/s coupled with an L3s or two.


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#13 billappleton

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 09:23 AM

Hi All,

 

OK picked up an L3S yesterday. Holy cow this is a great sounding sub. With the crossover setting at 120 HZ you could turn down either the L2M or L3S and see that the sub was picking up a lot of the acoustic energy. Still might pick up another L2M some day to spread out stereo. A few random questions you guys might know...

 

with the short sub pole... is the L2M touching the top of the sub? Or is it up in the air a bit? Can the long pole be cut to a specific size?

 

i just got a cheapo link cable. should i really get one of the line 6 cables? or is a cheap one basically the same thing? It's all digital?

 

when i set the L3S crossover, this affects the L2M, right? does anyone have comments about the best speaker modes or settings?

 

best,


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#14 RonMarton

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:34 AM

...with the short sub pole... is the L2M touching the top of the sub? Or is it up in the air a bit? Can the long pole be cut to a specific size?...

  1. I'd say "linked" rather than "resting" or "touching". I guess I'd describe it as a type of "anti-slide" system.
  2. Maybe, but not noticeably.
  3. No...

…and I think that you'd probably benefit from checking out the pole options discussed towards the end of this topic: http://line6.com/sup...mounting-hints/.

 

...I just got a cheapo link cable. should i really get one of the line 6 cables? or is a cheap one basically the same thing? It's all digital?...

 

Here's a link to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth about 3-pin XL cabling, the upshot of which will be that just running a short L6 Link along a pole between sub and mid/top can be done with pretty much any correctly terminated 3 pin XL cable...

 

http://line6.com/sup...xl-cabling-r549

 

...when I set the L3S crossover, this affects the L2M, right?...

 

…The full technical description of this is "kinda sorta", but...

 

...does anyone have comments about the best speaker modes or settings?...

 

…Sure do.

 

Plug your source into your L2, L6 Link from it to your L3s, select the mode that sounds best to your ears ...and enjoy.

 

Only adjust the crossover in the unlikely event that you reckon there's a deficiency or some inaccuracy the in lower midrange.

 

(Betcha don't.)  :)  ;)


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#15 litesnsirens

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:36 AM

I'm a little late to the party, but I will say you made the right choice to go with the L3s.  I played many gigs in my band with a single L3s and 2 X L3t.   I eventually picked up a second L3s but when I did I was basically buying an expensive speaker stand....LOL.  Of course the reality is that it does add to the over all sound and does provide a lot more headroom but the point I was making was that I was getting by fine with one.

 

The short poles with leave the speaker resting on the sub but adds the protection that it won't get knocked off.  It would take enough force to knock the whole rig over before it will go.  The long poles are a set length they aren't custom I have both, I typically use the short poles but sometimes I need to get the tops elevated and will use the long poles in that situation.

 

As far as the cabling goes, of course you get what you pay for as in anything else but we are talking about a digital system here and line 6 has recommended using the AES/EBU or DMX for longer runs.  For shorter runs regular mic cables do work fine.  With that in mind, connecting bottoms to tops I use regular cable.  I use DMX to get from one side of the stage to the other and from the board to the first set of speakers will depend on how far away the M20d is from that first set of speakers if it's only about 10 feet or less I'll use a regular cable if it's longer another DMX.  That's only because the only DMX cables I have are 30', so 'm not gonna needlessly use a 30' cable for a 10' run.

 

And as far as the crossover points and speaker modes.  I think I typically use 120hz crossover but 100hz works well with L3ts and 2 L3s.  I think I would go with 120 hz if I was using L2t's as tops.  Speaker mode could depend on the room if you're playing DJ material.  For my band I always just use reference/PA, I often play recorded music through my system between sets and it sounds great.  The playback mode is designed for DJ so I would start there and if it seems too boomy in a certain room, go back to reference/PA.  On the sub, again reference for band work, but for DJ were everything has already been mastered, play with it and try some of the other settings until it sounds good and thumpy in the room your in.


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#16 jaminjimlp

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:50 AM

1. with the short sub pole... is the L2M touching the top of the sub?   YES   it has two functions "stability" and the pole sensor in the speaker changes something in the way it sounds "knowing it is on a pole" 

 

2.Can the long pole be cut to a specific size? I would think that there is some engineering involved in the length of the poles because every thing else that Line 6 has done with this system is for a specific reason and purpose. I have both sizes.

 

3. i just got a cheapo link cable. should i really get one of the line 6 cables? or is a cheap one basically the same thing? It's all digital?  Mr Ron has a great post that I know he has a link to that explains it perfectly!   I use DMX cables and they work fine but that is what GC had when I got my system. You should get AES/EBU since you haven't invested in anything as of yet.

 

4. when i set the L3S crossover, this affects the L2M, right? does anyone have comments about the best speaker modes or settings? Absolutely it dose! I tend to use the 100hz or the 120hz settings depending on the sound at each place we have played. how ever the 120hz setting takes some work load off the l2m's or l3m's witch ever you have or get.

 

we played at a gymnasium this week end with nothing in the room but a wrestling ring and 2 basket ball goals and you know what they say about the acoustics in such a place, well the the sound was definitely to the contrary, it was absolutely great!!! we had lots of comments on how good it sounded.


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May you be blessed and our Lord Jesus keep you!!!


#17 jaminjimlp

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 10:55 AM

geez..... I type real slow and you guys posts were not here when I started.... LOL


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May you be blessed and our Lord Jesus keep you!!!


#18 Digital-sound

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 09:51 PM

Glad you are happy with the sub billappleton. (I will not add anything to answer your questions. It is covered by all the above I think)
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#19 JeffersteinVS

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:04 AM

Did you Eq the room? RTA spectrum analyzer? or listen to canned music? or did you just leave a flat main out EQ?

 

 

 

1. with the short sub pole... is the L2M touching the top of the sub?   YES   it has two functions "stability" and the pole sensor in the speaker changes something in the way it sounds "knowing it is on a pole" 

 

2.Can the long pole be cut to a specific size? I would think that there is some engineering involved in the length of the poles because every thing else that Line 6 has done with this system is for a specific reason and purpose. I have both sizes.

 

3. i just got a cheapo link cable. should i really get one of the line 6 cables? or is a cheap one basically the same thing? It's all digital?  Mr Ron has a great post that I know he has a link to that explains it perfectly!   I use DMX cables and they work fine but that is what GC had when I got my system. You should get AES/EBU since you haven't invested in anything as of yet.

 

4. when i set the L3S crossover, this affects the L2M, right? does anyone have comments about the best speaker modes or settings? Absolutely it dose! I tend to use the 100hz or the 120hz settings depending on the sound at each place we have played. how ever the 120hz setting takes some work load off the l2m's or l3m's witch ever you have or get.

 

we played at a gymnasium this week end with nothing in the room but a wrestling ring and 2 basket ball goals and you know what they say about the acoustics in such a place, well the the sound was definitely to the contrary, it was absolutely great!!! we had lots of comments on how good it sounded.

 


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#20 billappleton

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 08:25 AM

Did you Eq the room? RTA spectrum analyzer? or listen to canned music? or did you just leave a flat main out EQ?

 

I was listening to canned music from an iPad. This was just plugged into the RCA ports of the L2M. This was outdoors.

 

Wondering if people think iPad is too low quality. What would be better?

 

Wondering is an L3T / L2T with an EQ is helpful. For example, if the EQ is first in the chain, does that affect everything else? Or do you need an EQ on every unit?

 

I suspect DJs have lots of fancy stuff on the front end. What makes sense in a simpler situation?

 

Thanks


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