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Question About A/b Boxes


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#21 RonMarton

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 10:38 AM

Now I'm confused...

 

...I'm using line out on the BBE...

 

What does that mean, exactly ?

 

That "Line Out" jack is the BBE Acoustimax's "processed" output which WILL always be affected by its equaliser …and it's the one that I've illustrated with a YELLOW line representing the short TS jack patch cable that takes the Acoustimax "effect" for optional switching via the Morley's "A" input to its "In/Out" jack. 

 

I've illustrated the "straight through" signal path (that BBE call their "hardwire bypass") using RED lines for the short TS jack patch cables ...and I firmly believe that they should ONLY be passing the UNmodified sound of your instrument through to the Boss BD-2.

 

You can easily check the "cleanliness" of that Acoustimax's "hardwire bypass" by plugging your instrument into it and connecting another long jack cable from its "opposite end" connector (on its other side, NOT its rear panel) and sending that jack cable directly to your speaker.

 

Hooked up like that, where it's just "on its own", (effectively interrupting a "straight line" formed by the single "run" created from your pair of jack cables) I'm told that operation of its controls should NOT be affecting your instrument's sound at all, unless your Acoustimax has an internal fault.

 

Should it pass that test, correct setting of your Morley switcher's "A or B" stomp switch should ONLY be allowing whatever's present at it's "B" input (the Boss pedal) to be available at its "In/Out" for sending to your speaker, in other words that Acoustimax "Line Out" jack should be totally isolated whenever your Morley switcher has just its one, single, "B" LED illuminated...

 

…Unless that particular Morley switcher is itself faulty.


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#22 federalhog

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:31 AM

I've tried it every which way to Sunday. The BBE's eq can not be bypassed. 

 

Also, the Morley switcher (I have 2) sucks so much of the signal out of the path that I basically had to turn the volume and gain up full boar on the BBE. So, I'm not going to be using the Morely. Off to ebay they go. 1 is brand new. Just got it. Same thing with both of them. I don't know how that's possible. I've even ran a test. Had the guitar > A > in/out > L3T and then the Guitar > in/out > A > 3LT and same thing. Big signal loss. 

 

So for now, it's going to have to be guitar > Boss > BBE > XLR > L3T and I'll have to live with it. 


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#23 actdmusic

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:55 AM

Doesn't it work this way: 

 

acmax%20diagram.jpeg

Just don't use the "A and B" and you should be ok. 


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#24 RonMarton

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:09 PM

Exactly Antonio...

 

…It SHOULD, by rights, work beautifully...

 

...either as you've just posted, or using my earlier "single speaker cable" hook-up, ...but from federalhog's report of the level loss via that blasted Morley box, it would seem that there's something truly strange going on inside it.

 

It sure ain't "true to label".

 

Which brings us back to possibly spending about $80 USD for either of the properly isolating switch boxes you and I suggested earlier, but only from such cash as might be available should our harassed hog be able to get a refund for his pair of brand new Morley units.

 

http://www.bhphotovi...rue_Bypass.html

 

http://www.sweetwate.../detail/LS2Boss


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#25 actdmusic

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 12:42 PM

are the guitars passive or active?
The only reason I can think of for that level and tone loss would be an impedance miss match.
But if there is a pre-amp inside the guitar that can´t be the case
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#26 federalhog

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 01:00 PM

The guitars are resonators. They have a highlander pickup system in them. I have 6 nationals with highlanders. They use a TRS cable from a battery box to the guitar to power the preamp. I ripped all the preamps out of all of them last weekend because I get sick of having to use 2 cables to my pedalboard. Don't ask me why but TRS does not work on some of my other acoustics. So, I must always use 2 cables. TRS > Nationals and Mono > Acoustics and My resolectric which has an internal highlander and battery and used mono cable. 

 

So there was a signal drop, obviously when I took out the preamp out of the highlander. Which is by I bought the BBE. Now no matter which way I route anything. Take the Boss BD-2 out of the equation, there is a dramatic signal drop with the morely box in the mix, in any configuration. 

 

So.... either I don't know what I'm doing, which is highly possible, or the Morley pedals are just a flawed design. I have 2. One is an older style with a power adaptor>the internal 9v connector and the new one today has a jack and an external battery box. 

 

Both do the same thing. Any configuration with the Morley and the BBE, there is almost no signal and I have to max the gain and volume on the BBE. 

So guess what?

 

2 Morleys on Craigslist now. POOF. 

 

I'll get the radial at some point. I am sort of burnt out with this sh*t at the moment. The problem is that I use 5 different guitars when we play out. Some of my nationals have 2 jacks. One of the highlander, one for the P90 or the slimbucker, or the single coil Lollar on my baritone national. I use multiple tunings to keep it interesting. But with all these guitars, comes the headaches. 

 

I simply wanted to have 1 signal that is my BD-2 without any EQ from anything else and 1 signal from my BBE, independent of the Boss. So I guess that is asking too much perhaps. 

 

So now it's 

 

Guitar > BD-2 > BBE > XLR > Line6 L3T

 

I'm going to have to live with it that way for a while unless I hire an engineer. I don't know anything about impedance. I lose my sh*t real quick with this stuff. I'm in data security and design and management. I think too much as it is. Music is supposed to be fun. That's why I like sometimes to take the Stagescape out of the mix and just plug vox and guitar right into a L3T. Sounds mint. People don't know the difference. It's about the energy you push out at the listeners, not the gear. But I do like gear, don't get me wrong. But sometimes, like the Stagescape, it does so much, I don't have time to learn all the features. 

Anyhow, sorry for the epic derail. I'm just your typical artist/musician type that has something not quite right upstairs. 

 

Thanks guys. 


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#27 actdmusic

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:09 PM

I guess the Morley box is designed for line-level / low impedance signals.

 

As you took the pre-amps out of the guitars you always need the BBE to serve as pre-amp, receiving the high impedance signal from the guitars and amplifying it to an usable level.

 

I'm afraid the volume loss will happen with any line selector pedal as they are generally designed for line level signals.

 

Can't you get a decent result by going straight to the BBE with the maximizer off and the EQ flat, and then to the Boss Pedal into the M20d for EQ and other tweaking trickery? 

You could then go  from a monitor out to your monitor speaker...

This way the BBE wouldn't be doing much for the sound at all. It would serve just as a transparent pre-amp.


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#28 actdmusic

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:19 PM

The guitars are resonators. They have a highlander pickup system in them. I have 6 nationals with highlanders. They use a TRS cable from a battery box to the guitar to power the preamp. I ripped all the preamps out of all of them last weekend because I get sick of having to use 2 cables to my pedalboard. Don't ask me why but TRS does not work on some of my other acoustics. So, I must always use 2 cables. TRS > Nationals and Mono > Acoustics and My resolectric which has an internal highlander and battery and used mono cable. 

 

So there was a signal drop, obviously when I took out the preamp out of the highlander. Which is by I bought the BBE. Now no matter which way I route anything. Take the Boss BD-2 out of the equation, there is a dramatic signal drop with the morely box in the mix, in any configuration. 

 

So.... either I don't know what I'm doing, which is highly possible, or the Morley pedals are just a flawed design. I have 2. One is an older style with a power adaptor>the internal 9v connector and the new one today has a jack and an external battery box. 

 

Both do the same thing. Any configuration with the Morley and the BBE, there is almost no signal and I have to max the gain and volume on the BBE. 

So guess what?

 

2 Morleys on Craigslist now. POOF. 

 

I'll get the radial at some point. I am sort of burnt out with this sh*t at the moment. The problem is that I use 5 different guitars when we play out. Some of my nationals have 2 jacks. One of the highlander, one for the P90 or the slimbucker, or the single coil Lollar on my baritone national. I use multiple tunings to keep it interesting. But with all these guitars, comes the headaches. 

 

I simply wanted to have 1 signal that is my BD-2 without any EQ from anything else and 1 signal from my BBE, independent of the Boss. So I guess that is asking too much perhaps. 

 

So now it's 

 

Guitar > BD-2 > BBE > XLR > Line6 L3T

 

I'm going to have to live with it that way for a while unless I hire an engineer. I don't know anything about impedance. I lose my sh*t real quick with this stuff. I'm in data security and design and management. I think too much as it is. Music is supposed to be fun. That's why I like sometimes to take the Stagescape out of the mix and just plug vox and guitar right into a L3T. Sounds mint. People don't know the difference. It's about the energy you push out at the listeners, not the gear. But I do like gear, don't get me wrong. But sometimes, like the Stagescape, it does so much, I don't have time to learn all the features. 

Anyhow, sorry for the epic derail. I'm just your typical artist/musician type that has something not quite right upstairs. 

 

Thanks guys. 

 

Forgot to mention: 

 

It's alright. I think I speak for all of us when I say that we actually like to have this kind of collective brain twisting discussions about gear.

Some body always learns something with it and it's a great way to keep our heads prepared for any gear related problems on the road  :rolleyes:  B)


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#29 federalhog

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:00 PM

Yeah I was just frustrated earlier as I'm an idiot and I wired up and secured the whole pedal board only to find out about the signal loss. That and trying to work, listening to a conference call while I'm doing all this.  :lol: Should have waited till later (now) when the stress level is at a minimum. 

 

I was always told not to go preamp into preamp. That's not the reason I ripped the preamp out of the guitars, but more so about the 2 cord thing. But I also figured going from the highlander preamp > BBE would be overload? I don't know if it really is a no no to go preamp > preamp. But I do know that when I had a Fishman Aura pedal (acoustic preamp ) and went from highlander preamp into that, I always thought it sounded good. Until I plugged the guitar (with highlander preamp and pickup) directly into the L3T and was blown away by the clarity increase. But of course your limited because the 3LT has limited EQ, the FB circuitry is not very good and there's no notch filter. 

 

The BBE sounds fantastic, I'm able to notch out that frequency I was talking about in the other thread, which of course takes some of the tone with it, but that's how it goes. 

 

Actually I have the EQ on the BBE set to 12 for the bass and mids. The treble is set around 10:00 and the Boss Blues Driver pedal sounds pretty good going through that. 

 

I'm going to take the L3T and use that as a monitor instead of an amp and see how it sounds going direct into the board. 


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#30 actdmusic

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:28 PM

With electric guitars we are always doing the pre-amp into pre-amp thing. 

That's how we get the distortion! By over driving a pre-amp  ;) Or, better still, over driving a tube power amp  :D

 

There are no rules here.  Use  whatever sounds like you like it to!

 

Going in to the board is a good move. Do that and report back  :)


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#31 RonMarton

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 04:29 PM

...Music is supposed to be fun...

 

...It's about the energy you push out at the listeners, not the gear...

...I think I speak for all of us when I say that we actually like to have this kind of collective brain twisting discussions about gear.

Some body always learns something with it and it's a great way to keep our heads prepared for any gear related problems on the road  :rolleyes:  B)

 

Yes, …yes ! …and YES ! ! !  :) 

 

Speaking as an Audio Director/Sound Supervisor with over forty years of ongoing recording, broadcasting and live sound experience, I just wish I had a buck for every time that I've copped sh*t when upon insisting that I never, ever, EVER listen to equipment.

 

I've never wanted to hear equipment …and I don't now.

 

Nor will I ever, …because if we can "hear" it, something's very wrong. 

 

As you've so rightly said, guys...

 

…All we want to enjoy (one way or another, whether creating, conveying or witnessing) are performances.

 

Regarding the first line I quoted just now, from federalhog's evidently vast storehouse of wisdom...

 

…A far wiser man than I once said...

 

"…Ladies and gentlemen, let me assure you that showbusiness is like sex. …If you are NOT having fun, …you're simply not doing it properly…"

 

(Sir Tyrone Guthrie, the veteran Stage Director who actually "discovered" most of the Royal Shakespeare Company's elite performers.)


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