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#61 silverhead

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:58 AM

I think if I were selling an evolving product line I'd rather sell and support (for while) a million new things than indefinitely continue to support and update (for free) old products with no new sales. Seems like a no-brainier for your average MBA.
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#62 ext1jdh

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:05 AM

That's exactly my point. It's no longer a profit center, so it does not make any business sense to continue targeting updates for it. Target the new produce, and if backwards compatibility can be achieved at no cost then do it, but don't spend any time focusing on a discontinued product.

Line6 is a technology company that focuses on music tech, not a musical instrument company that focuses on technology.
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#63 gunpointmetal

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:06 AM

I'm sorry, I thought I was talking about customer service and support, not the best way to make money. Its like you guys work for them or something....

 

"Well, its better for me if they sell everything and put out a new item every year instead of keeping up with old stuff, cause that way they make more money and I can keep buying new lollipop that's just a little different than last years."

 

 

huh?


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#64 silverhead

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:28 AM

I am talking about customer service and support. Specifically, for how long does it make sense to provide ongoing support for digital products? That's a critical business decision for any manufacturer of such products, because resources expended there are resources that are not available to develop new products to remain competitive with evolving technology.

Taken to its extreme you would have a company that produces a single good product, sells a bunch, decides to allocate all it's resources to providing free customer service and product support, maybe sells a few more units over time, and eventually goes out of business when the inherent technical limitations of it's now-obsolete product results in no revenues.

Of course that's an extreme example. But the point is that the resource allocation call (support of existing products vs. development of new products) is one of the most important business decisions a company must make. And they are in the best position to make that call. Not me, and not you. They will receive and consider user feedback to help them make the call. One can agree or disagree with them. But the fact that one disagree does not mean they are not listening, nor that they are making the wrong call. It simply means that one disagrees.

.... and no, I don't work for them.
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#65 ext1jdh

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:34 AM

Fairly certain that if I worked for them I wouldn't have the stupid questions that I do
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#66 stumblinman

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 11:16 AM

I like the update. Set my DT master volume where I want it and adjust overall volume with master on HD500. Very useful feature for a live player like me that hates having to run to his amp to make an adjustment that he can't hear because he's directly in front of his amp instead of out where the stage sweet spot is. Great update, and I appreciate it.
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#67 jcosta_sr

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 11:25 AM

I agree the StageSource stuff is cool, so are the DT-series amps, Variax guitars (although limited to six-string players), and G-series wireless stuff.....but as said before, what sense does it make to produce "budget" level modeling gear that gets connected to high-priced tube amps (with suspect cabinet construction) or very high-priced full-range PA speakers? Or a $2500 mixer? I mean c'mon! At least they could come up with something unique and affordable (anybody remember that stereo full-range 4x12 sized powered cab Jet City was working on?) to fall in the middle ground. I have a hard time believing people who want to/can only spend $300-$700 on a modeler are going to spend $2500 on speakers for a stereo rig......They need to look at each product individually, as well as how they work together. Most people I know who play Line 6 do it because its the best "for the money", which means its whats affordable. Why price yourself right out of the market with your other stuff. I've been gigging 1-4 a month since the HD series was release and I have yet to see a single StageSource speaker or mixer.....anywhere. I asked a guy a GC why they don't stock them in the store and his response was "People who want to spend that kind of money will just order them. We had a set with a sub in here and it never even got turned on."....hmmmm...probably because it costs way too fvcking much.

Before I go further.  I don't work for Line 6.

 

The StageSource firmware upgrade supports Line6's DreamRig concept of JTV---->PODHD---->L2m.   Which runs in total $2700.  Show me an analog system Strat, Marshall 1/2 stack and a couple of stomps that aren't in that price range.  This is Line 6s vision........and frankly it is something I have bought into hook line and sinker.

 

I completed my DreamRig last month when I purchased a L2t. $750.  With one stroke I hooked up my HD500 via line6 link.  No complicated 4 wire hook ups.  No breaking my back with amps and spreaker.  Just a small 800 wat frfr package.  With in minutes I was hearing accoustic patches that were wonderful and in the next second the ballsiest heavy grunged patch you could imaging.  If you just consider the HD500 and L2t for a price point of $1350 that is incredible, show me something better?  BTW if you want stereo add another $650. 

 

With out a doubt, I would say to anyone who has a HD500, Take a serious look at the L2t/L2m.  For those of use who have bought into modeling and are focused on the sound, you will not be disappointed. 

 

We are only talking about the uses for a guitarist, If you want to do a small intimate accoustic gig, no problem the L2t has an onboard mixer that will accomodate a mic, an accoustic, the HD500, an MP3 player.  Good luck trying that on your 4 cable system. 

 

I could go on and on.  With that in context I think it is a great move that Line 6 released the firmware update for StageScape.  Go Line 6 Go.......


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#68 gunpointmetal

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 11:45 AM

so we found one person with the whole rig...maybe there's like five more of you on here....I get it, its useful...useful to a majority, not even close.


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#69 jcosta_sr

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:26 PM

so we found one person with the whole rig...maybe there's like five more of you on here....I get it, its useful...useful to a majority, not even close.

 

This forum is littered with the following question........

 

What are you using to amplify your HD500?........Why do my patches sound like crap, using a guitar amp?.....How do you hook up using 4 cables?  What mode should I use?  Every HD owner, or more specifically every owner of an amp modeling pedal is a potential customer of StageScape.  So yeah, if I was Line 6 and had to balance support for HD500 (create more amps, fx and more functionality) or enhance the FRFR capabilities so you can sell more hardware, that is a no brainer.  Duh.

 

The only thing I want to know is when do they plan on replacing the HD products.  Hopefully, they are already working on it and they are taking our suggestions and adding/fixing all the stuff we would like in the HD.


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#70 TheRealZap

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:34 PM

i fail to see why you are so against an update that is clearly and simply not for you....

maybe it will be your turn next time little johnny... til then play nice.

 

so we found one person with the whole rig...maybe there's like five more of you on here....I get it, its useful...useful to a majority, not even close.


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#71 gunpointmetal

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:42 PM

They have two different user bases. People who are looking for a budget modeler are not looking to spend $1500 on two (of the smaller) PA speakers. Most people running PODS (that I have actually witnessed) either run into the FX return of a tube head, a small SS power amp/cab, or they go straight in with various monitor applications. I run into a Crate Powerblock with a 4x12, but if I had the $1500 to spend on amplification, it would probably go into something like an Axe FX/Kemper and still play through my guitar speakers.

 

If your patches sound like crap through a guitar amp, that's your fault and getting more gear isn't gonna instantly make you sound good. Not understand 4CM doesn't mean you should spend over a grand on PA speakers. Having stuff that connects with one XLR doesn't automatically mean you won't sound like sh!t. People who think this way cycle through gear and never stick with anything, cause they think they're supposed to just sound good cause someone else does with the same stuff.

 

I'm not even that upset about it, I just don't understand the defense for this basically useless (for MOST people) update....they coulda held off and offered this stuff with other useful items. I guess it makes to be swimming in fanboys around here.


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#72 stormstudios

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 12:58 PM

I would have liked this update to include some sort of MIDI-over-USB functionality. I would prefer to send the MIDI patch changes over USB instead of hooking up a MIDI interface. I currently send MIDI-over-USB to my 11R and it will send the MIDI change to the POD HD Pro with a small MIDI cable but I'd like to take just the Pod to some smaller gigs and not have to hook up some smaller MIDI interface.

 

That would have been nice.


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#73 Badbradline666

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 01:13 PM

Why isn't the diesel (diety's son), the orange model, and the 5150ii (not to mention other great models) available for pod hd??? But they are available for other pods?? that makes no sense... I would gladly pay for that metal pack
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#74 TheRealZap

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 01:26 PM

the old models don't work on the new pods... and those models weren't modeled for the new pods...

the amps on the current pods have NOTHING to do with what was done on the old pods....

and i'm sure they had plenty of requests for other models....

not sure why you think your 3 old favorites need to be a priority or why crying about their absence in this thread makes sense to you... but ok!

maybe it will happen at some point...

 

Why isn't the diesel (diety's son), the orange model, and the 5150ii (not to mention other great models) available for pod hd??? But they are available for other pods?? that makes no sense... I would gladly pay for that metal pack


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#75 bjnette

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 01:44 PM

When I first saw this last night I was thrilled. It was like WOW Line6 WOW

 

I felt like a heel as I just posted Fractal AxeII update a few days ago to show what the goodwill for a 4-5 times the cost model looks like.

 

As I read down the list of fixes I knew it wasn't for me as I mainly use mine for recording and only the occasional gig.

 

Anyway good on Line 6 for putting out an update for Line 6 rig users,

 

It is support and shows they care.

 

Well Done!


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#76 Slidedude

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 03:33 PM

well I applied the update with no issues on my 500.  So now the master volume knob on the 500 works with my DT.  Only it doesn't match the master on the DT, it only regulates the POD output level.  Prior to the update the POD output stayed at 100% and the only way to lower volume was with the amp channel volume or the DT Master.  Now we can crank the DT master for the power section tubes without blowing the windows out by just lowering the POD master instead of playing with the amp channel.

 

I tried it tonight and it seems to be the case.  It is going to take a lot more play time to work with but essentially I should never have to use LVM again.

 

And as for anything else, I don't give a crap.  I see tons of very high priced analog pedals that only do one or two things and will NEVER be updated, changed, factory reset, and nobody bitches about it.  When you buy a new computer you don't expect the manufacturer to give you new features and capabilities for free.  Microsoft doesn't give you a new OS for free (usually).  My car company doesn't call me up with free upgrades for the hell of it.  Even if Line 6 did give new amps and stuff, there would still be complainers that it wasn't enough or just what they wanted.

 

As for me, thanks guys, good job.   :D

 

Ah...but if you turn the output level of the POD down using the Master, does turning up the Master on the DT still drive the tubes? Doesn't reducing the output of the POD end up reducing how hard the tubes are getting hit, or does cranking the Master on the DT compensate, albeit at a lower dB level?

 

You mentioned you tried this already, with good results - so I'm really encouraged...


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#77 phil_m

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 03:51 PM

Ah...but if you turn the output level of the POD down using the Master, does turning up the Master on the DT still drive the tubes? Doesn't reducing the output of the POD end up reducing how hard the tubes are getting hit, or does cranking the Master on the DT compensate, albeit at a lower dB level?

 

You mentioned you tried this already, with good results - so I'm really encouraged...

 

You got it right. Adjusting the master volume on the HD doesn't equal adjusting the master volume on the DT. They're still independent volume controls. It's just that now with the update, the HD's master volume isn't automatically bypassed when you use the L6 Link connection. I think the functional aspect is that it just gives you another way to make minor volume adjustments without having to touch the amp.


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#78 radatats

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 04:03 PM

that is a great question and I am not qualified to answer it in detail, but here is how I see it.  A tube is a variable output electrical device with two inputs: the steady high voltage controlled by the Amp Master and the modulated low voltage signal supplied from the preamp (POD Master).  The modulated low voltage signal varies the output of the tube as it is applied to the high voltage from the amp.  

 

So you have two options to reach the same output level:

1. A strong high voltage signal with small modulation applied (amp master up, pod master down).

2. A weak high voltage signal with large modulation applied (amp master down, pod master up)

 

If I understand things right, you get better headroom, hence more touch response and dynamics with 1.  I don't necessarily think the tubes are being driven harder, more that they have more potential to be driven with the amp master up.  Better transient response and better tone.  At least this upgrade gives us the option to play with it and so far to my ears it seems better.   :)


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#79 sloppyfingers

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 04:04 PM

Okay, so at one point after one of the past updates, my Variax 500  stopped working through the digital cable (forget the update number)..As a result I couldn't get into workbench through my pod 500..All this time I thought it was my guitar, so I finally brought it in and the tech could not find anything wrong with the guitar..The cable is fine as well as the guitar, so he asked me to bring in my pod which I haven't done yet....After reading this thread, I'm just wondering if a re-flash of my pod and the latest update will fix this...I thought I read that this was one of the issues they addressed with this.Again, all this time I thought it was my guitar, but fingers crossed it could very well be some buggy thing with the pod..

 

This also gets me thinking...Are we really there yet with the technology? I realize that the variax 500 is getting old now, but is the technology just seems too un-stable and buggy to be relied on?..I equate this to when cars first started having computers, and sensors.All the problems people had before it was ironed out..Anyways, that's a different subject...As far as new amp models go, I just can't think of anything other than mybe some sort of real clean for acoustic plug in perhaps..We have enough amps...Maybe a model pack that people can purchase.Focus on the imrovements to what we already have (e.q's, bug fixes,etc.).

L-6  don't owe new models to us for free.


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#80 talwilkins

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 04:08 PM

I agree, it's a great update for DT amp users.

It's a pitty it wasn't more yet but I also feel there will be more coming.


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