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Midi Looper Control Same As On-device Buttons


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#1 bpaluzzi

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 06:28 PM

Hi -

 

Wanted to see if it was possible to control the looper via MIDI so that the external pedals act like the on-board pedals.

 

What I mean by that: 

 

on the device, you have two pedals - one for record/overdub, and one for play/stop.

If you hit the first pedal while no loop is playing, the m13 knows to issue the "record" command

If you hit the first pedal while a loop is playing, the m13 knows to issue the "overdub" command

 

Similarly for the stop / play pedal.

 

However, in the MIDI implementation, record, overdub, play, and stop require 4 different CC messages to be sent.

Is there a way to issue the "toggling" command via MIDI (i.e., one CC message for record/overdub, which is correctly interpreted based on the current status of the device)

 

Thanks so much for your help! 

 


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#2 phil_m

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 07:49 AM

Well, the M13's MIDI map is kind of setup like you're describing. Record and overdub are controlled by the same CC# (50; Record is 0-63, Overdub 64-127), just different values coming from that same number. A lot of MIDI controllers will give you a "Toggle" option so that if you hit the switch once it sends out one value on a CC# and if you hit it again. So, I guess the answer to your question is yes it can be done, but you have to make sure the controller you're looking at has the feature.


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#3 bpaluzzi

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 08:09 AM

Toggle externally won't work, though.

 

The function for footswitch one won't go "record", "overdub", "record", "overdub" etc.

 

It'll be "record", "overdub", "overdub", "overdub", "overdub"

 

I can't imagine for the life of me why Line6 designed it this way, especially as the "alternative" functions for each controller are absolutely dead when it's not their "turn" to be called (e.g., if you hit "overdub" when no loop is playing, the system does nothing)

 

In short, on the board, you use two pedals.

Externally, you need four pedals, but only two can ever be used.

 

What the?? ;-)


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#4 bpaluzzi

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 08:24 AM

1 - issue midi command "record" to start loop playing

2 - issue midi command "overdub" to start overdub #1

3 - issue midi command "overdub" to stop overdub #1

4 - issue midi command "overdub" to start overdub #2

5 - issue midi command "overdub" to stop overdub #2

6 - issue midi command "overdub" to start overdub #3

7 - issue midi command "overdub" to stop overdub #3

8 - issue midi command "stop" to stop loop

 

In this instance, there are two problems if you use an external toggle

First of all, steps 3, 5, and 7 would be issuing "record" instead of overdub, which won't work

Secondly, step 8 would issue "play" instead of stop.

 

There is knowledge "in the system" about whether overdub/record or start/stop is the applicable function.  Since only one of these commands *can* be used at a time (i.e., calling "overdub" when the system expects "record" means nothing happens), it's absolutely mind-boggling that line6 chose to separate these into separate control changes.


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#5 bpaluzzi

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 05:47 AM

So after doing more testing with this, I've come to the somewhat unbelievable conclusion that it's not possible to duplicate the function of the two on-board looper pedals - you need 4 external pedals to get the same functionality.

 

Yes, it's my fault for not examining the MIDI spec more carefully before purchasing, but my goodness, why would Line6 choose such a bizarre midi implementation?


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