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Had Enough Of The Hd500...buying A Kemper


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#41 toneman2121

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:39 AM

the man said he's getting rid of his hd because he can't get what he wants out of it. i said here we go again. he asked me why i said it. i said i wasn't going to argue. my point is how the lollipop can you compare a $400 unit to a $2000 unit.

 

check it-lollipop for the expletive. cool. i'll probably get a warning point for that 


Edited by toneman2121, 14 May 2013 - 06:41 AM.

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#42 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:13 AM

 

 can you compare a $400 unit to a $2000 unit.

I know what you're saying, but at the end of the day, I say sure, let's compare. If someone bonds with the $400, they will get pretty damn good result that will render the 2000 unit irrelevant. I've heard pretty damn good clips from POD HD, that rival those of AXE II and Kemper. Steve Howe from Yes uses the POD HD 500 and many other working musicians. If you bond with the HD and know how to dial it to a point where you're happy with it and are inspired to play, you're golden. Many folks have done that, but if you struggle with it, then maybe it's not for you; and that's fine. If someone has the money and they can afford a tool that will make it easier for them, I say go for it, but that says nothing about the quality of the sounds that can be gotten out of the HD series.


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#43 Jeffsco

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:31 AM

 

I know what you're saying, but at the end of the day, I say sure, let's compare. If someone bonds with the $400, they will get pretty damn good result that will render the 2000 unit irrelevant. I've heard pretty damn good clips from POD HD, that rival those of AXE II and Kemper. Steve Howe from Yes uses the POD HD 500 and many other working musicians. If you bond with the HD and know how to dial it to a point where you're happy with it and are inspired to play, you're golden. Many folks have done that, but if you struggle with it, then maybe it's not for you; and that's fine. If someone has the money and they can afford a tool that will make it easier for them, I say go for it, but that says nothing about the quality of the sounds that can be gotten out of the HD series.

Dean has hit it on the head...The HD is a viable tool. It sounds good. I've got several setLists worth of patches saved up and ballparked close to the final tone I require of them. They all need tweaking to become stellar. The main issue I have is that the "Tweaking" part takes far to long in comparision to what i achieved with my XTLive. I need to get my tones down..and move on. That's why the Kemper appealed to me...and I'm happy to report that it has lived up to that peformance specification.

 

The other issue is cost. I haven't invested large dollars in an amp rig for a long, long time. My investment has been in my Live mixing rig and my Studio setup. I had the opportunity to sell off a lot of gear that I was no longer using in order to purchase the Kemper.

 

In my day job, I own a cabinet shop. I can spend $15,000.00 + on a table saw.....or I can spend $3000.00. Both will cut the material I need. Is the $15K saw the same as the $3K? No...it will do things the $3K can't. But does that mean the $3k saw is crap? On the contrary..the $3k saw allows me to earn my living. It's a great tool. Would i upgrade to the $15k saw? If I had the money and felt the advantages it would give me were worth it...yes.

 

In this case..The Kemper has done this for me. If I didn't have the financing for the Kemper...i'd be accepting and working thru the issues with the HD500. It's not a slam against the unit....simply a choice i've made.


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#44 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:53 AM

Dean has hit it on the head...The HD is a viable tool. It sounds good. I've got several setLists worth of patches saved up and ballparked close to the final tone I require of them. They all need tweaking to become stellar. The main issue I have is that the "Tweaking" part takes far to long in comparision to what i achieved with my XTLive. I need to get my tones down..and move on. That's why the Kemper appealed to me...and I'm happy to report that it has lived up to that peformance specification.

 

The other issue is cost. I haven't invested large dollars in an amp rig for a long, long time. My investment has been in my Live mixing rig and my Studio setup. I had the opportunity to sell off a lot of gear that I was no longer using in order to purchase the Kemper.

 

In my day job, I own a cabinet shop. I can spend $15,000.00 + on a table saw.....or I can spend $3000.00. Both will cut the material I need. Is the $15K saw the same as the $3K? No...it will do things the $3K can't. But that does not mean the $3k saw is crap? On the contrary..the $3k saw allows me to earn my living. It's a great tool. Would i upgrade to the $15k saw? If I had the money and felt the advantages it would give me were worth it...yes.

 

In this case..The Kemper has done this for me. If I didn't have the financing for the Kemper...i'd be accepting and working thru the issues with the HD500. It's not a slam against the unit....simply a choice i've made.

Please remember to come back and post about your experience. I think line6 can use the knowledge also. Interestingly enough when you mentioned about how the dynamic response is better in the Kemper than the actual real amp, I remember specifically that Kemper himself mentioned that he put a compressor in the Amp block to get that effect. Later the AXE FX II makers adopted the same idea of a compressor in the amp block. I'm waiting for line6 to do that also.


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#45 Jeffsco

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:51 PM

Back up a little and read Post #42...that is my first impression from last night. I'll post again in a week after some time with the unit.


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#46 toneman2121

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 02:08 PM

i drive a 2000 f150 with 225,000 miles. i'll go rent a 2013 caddy. i'll let you know which one i like better


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#47 bjnette

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:27 PM

I'd love a Kemper, no doubt about it, in the meantime I got my HD500 which I love too.

There are many variables with the 500 for gain staging and it is an issue. It would be great if there was an auto make up gain global setting that compensated for Amp and FX gain changes. This is a must have.

As there are so many variables the liability of using the presets or customtones is that the varying degrees of how the gain is set up with different users is variable, different. This is an issue.

My solution is to remove one variable. Going into an Amp gain match it guitar to amp direct to guitar to 500 in tuner mode.
Get that level which is full on the Master volume and perhaps a mixer volume adjust.

If you have a SPL meter this will help. Dont change your actual Amp monitor setting. You can download a SPL app to your phone if you haven't got a radio shack one.

That becomes your invariable gain match. Imagine there was never a Master Volume and you got one less variable to gain match patches. Now if your going into a tube Amp you might want to increase the gain into it and that is fine you can add a little extra.

Next I found is naming patches by the guitar I am using, if you have several you will know some output different levels.

Next is gain matching patches by the mixer output level rather than the Amp settings as compensating with those will alter your tone and you could soon loose faith with your unit. Dont' forget to save the gain matched settings.

What you want is a reasonably matched gain stage between your quieter cleaner amp patches to your more gain driven Amps.

Next, the on off FX in a patch then can be adjusted individually and this is where the auto make up gain would be nice but as mobo and others have mentioned in other threads the EQs can be used for boost where needed.

Lastly, going from a patch with all FX on to a patch with most FX off, depends on how you work and some like a bank of the same Amp with FX in the remaining slots and this works well using the mixer to get a realistic gain change.

Cycle thru and hopefully your only fine tuning your patches.

Again I think the trick is to remove the variables from patch to patch and we have all done it adjust the Amp vol while keeping the master the same. Dive into the mixer instead and don't forget to save.

Hopefully this will help some because the gain staging is an issue.

And until we can all afford a Kemper might as well make the HD work.


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#48 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:51 PM

I think another major problem is line6 don't respond as much to the concerns on their own company's message board as much as they do on other message boards which I find baffling. I see Line 6 employees address and post in the gear page about topics that they completely ignore on this message board. Also How hard is it provide EQ frequency and Q information?  

 

They made an announcement in NAMM January 2013 about an upcoming update to the JTV that I was considering, it's mid may already :blink:.  Also where is POD HD plugin? It can't be in the making! They must be waiting for Revalver to come out or digitech to answer . My eleven Rack  comes with the Eleven Plugin. I think line 6 should really start listening seriously.


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#49 ColonelForbin

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 09:08 AM

I have been looking at the new Kemper "bundles", with the foot controller - it's a fair bit more than $500 vs $2000...You gotta remember the HD500x is a foot controller and processor all in one.

 

The Kemper "bundle" on Sweetwater is $2,579.

 

http://www.sweetwate...l/ProfileRkwRmt

 

http://www.sweetwate...l/ProfAmpBKwRMT

 

That being said, I have totally been drooling over those things for a while now. I am not in the band wagon of "this gear vs that gear" so much; I tend to be a bit of a gear hoarder, and only get rid of stuff when I am in need of the $$, or some other plausible way to justify spending too much $$ on gear that I use 100% in a hobby sense. I love my band, we're working on a five song EP right now, and then we're going to do some gigs this Spring and Summer. Not counting on it for income though; I work full time, and I enjoy being able to do music for the sake of music, rather than gigging to pay rent.

 

So, when it comes to gear, there is really no justification I can offer other than "I want it!!!"....I've got an HD500, a HD500x, an ElevenRack, a whole pedalboard of analog Keeley pedals, and of course I want a Kemper too!!!!

 

I think the HD500 series does some great stuff with the amp modeling, and though I rarely use all of it's functionality, I am at a point where I am comfortable knowing how to make it sound good. I lean heavily on the DT amps to "get me there", and to take out some of the extra tweaking tendency.

 

I think the Kemper is a totally DIFFERENT approach to this idea of replacing actual amps with amp emulations, models, profiles - whatever you want to call them.

 

The Line6 approach, for one, relies on their design engine to produce new amp models, and with the upcoming model packs, cost additional $$ to get them. With Kemper, because the device itself is designed to CREATE those amp models, the end use of the amp models comes in part from the time invested in mic'ing up a real world amp, in as ideal set of conditions as possible, so that imprint can be adjusted and dialed up later.

 

Rather than embed the alterations to the tone in digital programming, it seems like the Kemper allows users to populate amp audio data into a set of preconfigured slots so to speak. Otherwise, you would be just playing samples or something unrelated to the Kemper's perception of the amp and it's speaker and it's tones.

 

I haven't read any of the Kemper manuals, so I don't really know what the process is. I can imagine becoming a Kemper profiling expert will be a "job" for people who are good at making amps, mics, rooms and cabinets sound good. I mean, you can buy Kemper profiles, you can download some for free, and you can create your own.

 

One thing that speaks for itself, is the shear quantity of amps and cabs that come loaded on it from the start - not to mention all that you can add. I mean; this list is INSANE!!! 

 

http://www.kemper-am...rence_List.html

 

For direct comparison in value between the HD500 series and the Kemper, take into consideration the upcoming HD model pack expansion. It's $100; you get approximately ten new HD amps? And the series already has 28 or something  - so less than 50 total. By comparison, the total # of amp models available on Kemper is at least four times that, just for the initial price - and the total number of amp models available is virtually limitless.

 

That notion completely reinvents the game. You are not sharing patches, or tones within a limited set of parameters, you have now opened the Pandora's box of speculative tone searching.

 

To a certain extent, in support of the Line6 HD gear; the Line6 approach is still quite nuanced, as you can change cabinets and mic models on individual amp models, because the data is still able to be reconfigured on the fly, to a certain extent. And, as far as the Line6Link integration between the DT amps and the HD units, nothing else out there is doing that.

 

How much of what the Kemper hears is audio, how much is data, and how it's programmed to interpret all of that to a useable tone machine, is what makes it a unique entry. Since the profile experience involves a mic hearing an amp cabinet combination, it's still a bit simpler I would guess, in terms of how it - in their word - "hears the DNA of your amp".

 

It's always been easy to compare Axe-FX to POD, because despite the price and country of manufacture difference, they are basically comparable.

 

The Kemper is in it's own league at the moment, and quite frankly, $2,000 is a bargain. Consider the notion that non-Kemper equipment could come along that is compatible with the Kemper profiles. Where does the amp "live"? Is it embedded in the physical unit itself? Clearly not, you can share the profiles. So what about the merging of the profiles with the Kemper hardware and programming make it unique?

 

I can imagine at some point you will be able to load Kemper Profiles into ProTools as a plugin for re-amping.

As much as there are experts who build and repair amps, there will be experts who build Kemper Profiles of amps.

 

What's the going rate for a Kemper profiling studio session? That little thing made JOBS for people!

 

It's that you can take that thing to the ends of the Earth, and bring home amps that otherwise would never be available to anyone other than their owners.

 

I can see a Kemper Studio's release.. Something like, the worlds best Kemper profiler experts bring a host of amazing gear to Abbey Road, and Electric Ladyland, or any number of other famous rooms - the Grand Ole Oprey, Red Rocks, etc. And profile the amps there at Abbey Road in optimal conditions..

 

To a certain extent, they are already doing that..

 

http://www.kemper-am..._Downloads.html

 

The shear volume of expansion options is unprecedented with Kemper. I don't envy the marketing, R&D teams of the competition. It's like they combined dropping the mic with throwing down the gauntlet all in one move! :)

 

All that aside, I am quite at home with my Line6 gear, and I don't have any immediate plans to change all that around just to try something new. It is what it is, not everything will give you every option. I can see the allure of the Kemper; even the DT25 is a heavy amp, and when your tones are dependent on lifting heavy gear, it can get tiresome.

 

Plus, Kemper is just scratching the surface with what can be profiled. It's more than just amps, I would imagine...

The Kemper Effects Profilers! Plug that vintage MuTron in, and now you have a Kemper profile of a MuTron which you can digitally "repair" to remove any flaws of age, design, or damage. 

 

Their exact quote on that concept is:

 

"The PROFILER can only accurately profile preamp stomp boxes such as overdrive and distortion pedals, Eqs and filters, tube preamp pedals, and so on."

 

All pure speculation here, but it does appear the future will be fun!


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#50 stumblinman

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 09:17 AM

Nice pontificating.


But holy zombie threads, Batman!
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#51 ColonelForbin

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 10:42 AM

I have been reading the Kemper manuals and in particular, the section on how the thing profiles the amp. Definitely an eye opening read; worth taking some time to learn how the process works; I didn't have a clue how it worked, and it's worth noting the process for profiling the amp is very different from profiling the cabinet and mic.

 

Interesting how they note that it doesn't profile modeled amps as well as it does "real" amps. Not surprising, but in essence, they have created a computer algorithm for ears and a brain! The manner in which it sends preconfigured audio to the amp being modeled, then analyzes that audio.. Wayyyy cool... Scary expensive, but heck, what are tax returns for, right>? lol :)

 

If you want some reading material to pass the time, good stuff:

 

http://www.kemper-am..._Downloads.html

 

"In order to make a profile, the original amplifier (which we will refer to as the “reference amp”) has to be connected to the PROFILER using the DIRECT OUTPUT and the RETURN INPUT on the back. The PROFILER then sends various tones and signals into the reference amp — it will sound like warbles and static at various pitches and intensities, in other words: not too musical! To get technical for a moment: these dynamically-changing sounds allow the PROFILER to learn about the nonlinear behavior of the tube architecture and the dimensions of the passive components in the original amp. The PROFILER then listens to how the reference amp reproduces these sounds and analyzes the results. These characteristics are then recreated in the virtual signal flow of the PROFILER. Even the characteristics of the speaker cabinet and microphones, including all the frequency buildups and cancellations, are detected and become a part of the profile. If that sounds a bit complicated, don’t worry about it. The important thing to understand is that those weird sounds are how the PROFILER determines the unique way that your reference amp changes the sound of your guitar dynamically over time. With the information the PROFILER gets from those weird sounds, it is able to create a digital profile of your reference amp. You can also profile solid-state amps and modeling amps, although the results from profiling modeled amps can sometimes be underwhelming. The reason for this is that some emulations try to mimic the typical tube sound using techniques that don’t necessarily match the analog reality'

 

 

So yeah; I wonder if anyone would want to use a Kemper to profile their favorite HD500 + DT configurations!!......


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#52 ColonelForbin

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 10:58 AM

Dang, it just keeps getting cooler....

 

Profiling a rotary speaker cabinet

 

The Kemper Profiling Amp already ships with some rotary speaker profiles and rigs which were captured from the real thing, but if you have access to a different brand of rotary speaker, you can take your own profiles, too. To do this, first set up the rotary speaker as you would in a normal recording situation. Next, connect the whole chain to the PROFILER, just as you would with a guitar amp. This time, however, two microphones should be used to capture the cabinet - one for the bass rotor, and one for the tweeter horn. Connect the microphones to a mixer, create a mono mix of the two, and send this to the PROFILER’s RETURN INPUT. The idea is for both microphones to be captured at the same time, resulting in a single profile. Now, switch your Rotary speaker to high speed and start the profiling procedure.

 

The profiling process will ignore the rotation of the cabinet and only capture the typical sound character. The resulting profile will probably sound weird and uninspiring on its own, but when you engage the “Rotary speaker” stomp in the MOD module, you’ll hear the rich and animated sound of your original rotary cabinet.

 

✔ Tip: Although the profile is captured in mono, you can use the “Rotary speaker” stomp in the MOD or X slot to recreate the typical stereo movement of the signal. The Rotary speaker effect will automatically separate the bass rotor from the tweeter horn.


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#53 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 11:40 AM

This is like saying "I am tired of my Volkswagen I'm getting a Ferrari.


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#54 scottyo78

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 11:42 AM

OMG, all this about the Kemper sounds wonderfully complicated. :rolleyes:

After 3 years, I only like my HD500 for "Live Play"... not for "Recording"... I've never really been happy with it.

 

And to balance 4 patches in it for live use... what a pita! :wacko:

And don't get me started on the stupid lollipop EQ's and their use of percentages. :angry:

 

I just bought a new Scuffham Amp Sim for recording and it's the cat's meow for me now.

 

The Kemper sounds interesting but also complicated... all those amp choices and effects settings, patches, etc. take a long time to scroll through and try out and I've grown tired of wasting/taking time to do that with new gear. I want to spend my time writing and recording my music and would like something easier and simpler... much like just an amp with 6 or 7 knobs* on it to minimize my time screwing around to find "the tone".

 

*I'm devolving. ;)


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#55 357mag

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 12:01 PM

I too dumped the HD Series. They stink in comparison to the XT and the X3 Series. 


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#56 aerosol_d7

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 12:12 PM

Some people will find easier to tweak Kemper or AXE FX because they already know things they had to learn when they were tweaking POD.

Because it is expensive, fashion and new, it is better. Really? With so many new options and things to learn, are you sure it will be easier?

 

People complain if a pedal has no option for BIAS, etc. The same people complain that a pedal is too complicated because it has too many parameters to set.

 

Line 6 should lauch a POD HD1 = 1 knob only pedal (for master volume) for those who cant tweak.


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#57 radatats

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 12:36 PM

This is like saying "I am tired of my Volkswagen I'm getting a Ferrari.

 

More like I am tired of my Vette, I am buying a Ferrari.  Both go really fast and look good but one costs a lot more than the other...


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Quit complaining and DO something or help somebody with their issues...


#58 ColonelForbin

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 02:25 PM

More like I am tired of my Vette, I am buying a Ferrari.  Both go really fast and look good but one costs a lot more than the other...

 

I'm tired of my morning commute driving in an automobile; I am going to have Scotty beam me up!

Or, I am going to go to work as a 3D hologram.

 

Comparing a car to a faster car isn't quite it; it's like comparing a car to a spaceship that can make a perfect cup of tea, you know, like Zaphod Beeblebrox with Ford Prefect in the Heart of Gold!

 

That being said, I still can't get a Kemper to do what my Line6 gear can do, period, doesn't matter what it costs.

 

A Kemper can't link to a DT amp and cause it to reconfigure it's power amp.

A Kemper can't take a VDI connection from a Variax and split the magnetic and models into different signal paths.

 

A Kemper is awesome, and does some amazing and cool things; however, same can be said of the HD500, DT25/50, JTV, etc.

 

What's most important, above all else, is finding musical inspiration. Fingers, gear, tubes, tones, amps, pedals, strings, picks, mics, ears, blood, sweat and tears. You have to LOVE what you do, regardless of HOW you do it.

 

If you are inspired, your music will be inspired. Find inspiration in any way you can, whenever you can.


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#59 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 03:08 PM

I agree that the Vette to Ferrari is a better comparison.


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#60 MartinDorr

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 04:00 PM

Aajor subjectivity ahead ...
From all I read about the Kemper (and Axe) I think the guitarists who already have or had gorgeous amps like the Kemper approach because it provides a fairly accurate model of any stomp/preamp/amp/cab/mic combo and expands the modelled gig's natural sensitivity to dynamic playing beyond what the physical gig can do (e.g., the Kemper provides more gain range, pick sensitivity, and other parameters) and some excellent effects, although not all what major players would want.
My impression of the whole situation is that Pros use the Kemper to PLAY amps and they compromise on the Kemper effects or add external effects in front or in the effects loop (e.g., really nice reverbs and delays).
On the other hand, the Pros use the Axe primarily for its superior effects and don't leave their real amps (or the Kemper ;-) at home.
The HD does not quite play at the same level in either camp. Although that being said, the HD provides an incredible amount of value for the money when you spend the time to work it (and are OK with a few compromises). There is plenty of tone coming out of the HD making it worth to work on your personal contribution to the overall outcome.
If I can ever afford it, I'll run my JTV into the HD500 and tie it to a Kemper with the 4-cable method. Maybe when I retrire ;-).
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#61 NucleusX

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 04:15 PM

A quote from a post I made in a current topic I started recently.

 

"After painstaking tweaking that is. The only bad thing I'm left to say about it is that it took so long to get there. It'd be nice if the POD HD didn't require so much tweaking from the get-go to craft ideal sounds. Might have something to do with the default parameters each effect starts off with as you add them."

 

Like you, I'm no idiot when it comes to operating technology, and this above all would be the only thing I'd like Line6 to take a hard look at next go round.


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#62 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 05:50 PM

I wish that some of the factory presets were usable so that you could get decent tone out of the pod before you learn to tweak it properly.  They are not usable!  This is a turn-off to many newcomers and some never overcome this.


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#63 samsgs

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 06:46 PM

Funny, I just tweaked all factory presets for my dual amp setup.  I agree, they are were totally unusable, but after adding a second output it is now at least somewhat playable, though I literally just finished doing this. With only one amp it was just garbled noise.  

 

I hadn't noticed that there is low volume mode (LVM) set in the L6 Link setlist along with comparable full amp versions.  I need to go in and compare but these seem to provide a base set for most of the amp models.   This will help in learning when to use pre vs full amp versions which another member recently informed me.

 

If you are using two amps, try adding another amp in the chain.   


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#64 Akeron

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 12:46 AM

I wish that some of the factory presets were usable so that you could get decent tone out of the pod before you learn to tweak it properly.  They are not usable!  This is a turn-off to many newcomers and some never overcome this.

 

Maybe it's me, but I've never tried factory presets in any hardware I had without changing all possible parameters after few seconds, so the initial sounds didn't matter. Who cares about the presets? :)


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#65 joel_brown

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 05:48 AM

Even though I've always built a tone from scratch on everything I've bought, the PODHD was the first one that through me for a loop with the damn Input 1 and Input 2 doubling up and causing problems.  I damn near got rid of it until someone on this forum told me to turn off Input 2.  After that it was a lot easier to dial in.


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#66 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:20 AM

I agree that once you learn the pod you want to build your own patches from scratch but when you take it out of the box and plug it in, you want to try it out before you learn to drive it.  I was really disappointed when I did that.  The plain vanilla amp patches are the only useful ones when you are starting out.  Most of them are total garbage with the effects way overdone.  To my taste, underdone is much better than over the top when it comes to effects.  With so many patches to choose from and I'm sure Line6 had many good beta testers, you would expect them to include some good sounding patches.  No they would not be perfect but they could sound decent.


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#67 smrybacki

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:33 AM

Even though I've always built a tone from scratch on everything I've bought, the PODHD was the first one that through me for a loop with the damn Input 1 and Input 2 doubling up and causing problems.  I damn near got rid of it until someone on this forum told me to turn off Input 2.  After that it was a lot easier to dial in.

That was also the case with me.  In fact, I'd say the dual channel aspect and it's implications are the cause of a lot of people's perceived problems really.


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However you play music using whatever gear you may choose that day-- the JOY of making it is the heart of it.

 


#68 NucleusX

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:54 AM

markcockerill

 

"As a side note, I have bought a Zoom G5 pedal on the strength of the quality of the G3X and I set the G5 up just for jamming along with my Sessionette 75 SS

amp. Within 10 minutes and I was not far away from my full gig sound and and for jamming, that is near enough. Their software interface is incredible."

 

I had a Zoom G5 for about a year till I sold it to help fund my POD HD Pro, and completely agree with you on that. The firmware/software

solution in it was a treat, plus its ease of use. It didn't require a lot of tweaking to summon great tones out of it. I kinda miss it now that I think

about it. Its a shame Zoom never made a successor to it and just stopped at the G5. I still have a bunch of multi-stomp pedals tho, which

uses the same ZFX4 DSP chip and firmware solution as the G3/G3X/G5.


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#69 joel_brown

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:29 AM

If I had to make-up something with no facts whatsoever, I'd say Line6 lost more customers because of the Dual input issues than it gained from it.  If it was me, I'd put in an "Off" setting for input 2 and make it the default in the next firmware release.

 

The famous line from Dr. Phil:  "What were you thinking ?".

 

Just like the EQ interface.  "What were you thinking ?"

 

And some way to check levels at various points in the chain.  How many times has that question been asked and answered.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really like the PODHD and all it can do.  It's just damn frustrating when you first get it.  Thankfully we have this forum and a ton of great people answering the same questions over and over.


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#70 smrybacki

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:35 AM

Thankfully we have this forum and a ton of great people answering the same questions over and over.

They might be robots lol...


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However you play music using whatever gear you may choose that day-- the JOY of making it is the heart of it.

 


#71 duncann

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 09:52 AM

If I had to make-up something with no facts whatsoever, I'd say Line6 lost more customers because of the Dual input issues than it gained from it.  If it was me, I'd put in an "Off" setting for input 2 and make it the default in the next firmware release.

 

The famous line from Dr. Phil:  "What were you thinking ?".

 

Just like the EQ interface.  "What were you thinking ?"

 

And some way to check levels at various points in the chain.  How many times has that question been asked and answered.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really like the PODHD and all it can do.  It's just damn frustrating when you first get it.  Thankfully we have this forum and a ton of great people answering the same questions over and over.

 

There's no way they're going to do this. Think of all the complaints along the lines of, "Why does my patch sound different now, you dumbass mo#$!@!!#kers!".

 

Digital_Igloo will then pop in here trying to calm people down, and try and explain things, fruitlessly.

 

Definitely agree, this forum and it's people are a very valuable resource. But as valuable as it is, it still can't force someone to play guitar better.


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#72 amsdenj

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 10:15 AM

I'm a new HD500X owner, but I had been a loyal Line6 customer for the whole POD series. What pushed me over was the 2.6 update. To me the HD500X provides:

  1. The Variax input (I have a 700 acoustic and a 300 with a Fishman Triple Play added)
  2. A pretty good audio interface
  3. Stable and flexible MIDI controller
  4. Some useful front of the amp effects
  5. Decent tones
  6. Pretty solid construction

I've been using S-Gear from www.scuffhamamps.com for a while now, and my experience is that every amp in S-Gear is a pleasure to play. They sound and feel good on almost any setting and make you just want to play. Each one becomes my favorite every time I switch amps. The HD500X doesn't do that. It sounds OK if you tweak it hard enough, but not stellar. 

 

However, the HD500X with MainStage and S-Gear is a killer combination. Takes some configuration effort to get it all working. But its worth the effort. I'm working on a blog entry with the details. And the HD500X is certainly serviceable by itself for a simpler setup. Both use the same FRFR amp. I only use S-Gear for recording, but might eventually use some of the HD500X from of the amp effects instead of the Logic Pro X pedal board. 

 

What I found is that using Jeff McErlain's Guitar Effects Survival Guide course, and using S-Gear to provide reference amps, I've become significantly more productive tweaking the HD500X. I'm pretty happy with the tones now and am getting good use out of a very flexible unit. This provides some targets to strive for and provides a method to tweaking. Read the Positive Grid BIAS Amp Design Features too. This provides a lot of useful information about amp controls and design that take some of the mystery out of all the parameters. The end result doesn't sound as good as S-Gear, but its pretty nice playing live. 


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#73 cruisinon2

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 10:25 AM

What I found is that using Jeff McErlain's Guitar Effects Survival Guide course, and using S-Gear to provide reference amps, I've become significantly more productive tweaking the HD500X. I

 

Wow...blast from the past. Haven't heard that name in a long time. He taught at the now defunct National Guitar Summer Workshop in CT.  Went there many, many moons ago as a kid. That place was a lot of fun, and a good learning experience...too bad it went under.


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#74 kmoed

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 12:00 PM

Modelers are Modelers and Amp are Amps.

 

They both have their place, and neither is going to replace the other. They are both tools to be used as such.

 

I would keep your HD500 and spend the $2000 on a very nice tube amp.

I own the HD500 and have used both a Kemper and an AxeFX , Along with UAD amp plugins etc.. All are really great, but they are modelers, you get the same kind of ear "fatigue" after using them for long periods that you get using the HD500. They just start to sound a little fake after extended use.

 

You have to really decide what you are after. Gigging at clubs, want to blow the audiences face off? Buy a tube amp half or full stack. 

Strictly recording? A nice combo along with your modeler of choice will cover a lot of ground. 


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#75 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:09 PM

Line 6 sometimes shoot themselves in the foot by not disclosing facts about the inner working of gear. For those who have a hard time dialing the HD series, recently line 6 disclosed that the CAB block default setting has enhanced bass and treble ( I call it  a Sonic Maxizer ON by default). So to get a standard   Impulse response (IR) , in the CAB parameters you need to lower the Res to zero! and the the thump  to about slightly under 9: o'clock from it's default 12:00 o'clock. 

 

So they added thump (bass) and sizzle (res) and made it default  :rolleyes: , as  result everyone struggled with boomy cabs and sizzle that created undesirable Fizz. I didn't know this but non of my patches had the amp bass past noon and presence and treble were were always under 12:00 o'clock and I was relatively happy with my patches. Now I'm happier just using my new default to Cab parameters (zero for Res and 9:o'clock for thump)

 

Go a head start a new patch from scratch, lower res to zero and thump to under 9: o'clock and your POD HD will sound much more natural and if you like the BBE maximizer sound then by all means use their default of 12: o'clock for thump and res...Sonic Maximizers kill tone so imagine for those who actually increase res past noon and do the same for thump and what they end up with. Sonic Maximizer should be outlawed because slight overuse is detrimental to tone, unless your deaf of course.


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#76 duncann

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 04:17 AM

If you have the resonance at zero, thump and decay effectively don't do anything.


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#77 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 09:23 AM

If you have the resonance at zero, thump and decay effectively don't do anything.

That's what the manual says but I read a post by D, Iglo (who has been extremely helpful  recently by disclosing this information) where he says that he sets resonator at zero and lowers the thump. Why do anything with the thump if res is at zero according to the manual; but I trust Igloo over the manual!

 

Post number 891 in this thread

 

http://www.thegearpa...1528346&page=60

 

"Only said I preferred the resonators at 0 and thump at half whatever it's currently at. It's simply my personal preference, which some people may share, that's all. Others may love the resonators.

Kinda like how djent guys generally eschew sag.

That said, we're making a few new presets to go with 2.6, and the ones I make will have those particular parameters set lower than default."


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#78 duncann

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 11:04 AM

Yes. I remember reading that. The info out there is conflicting.

 

But I also trust my ears. I don't hear any difference when changing thump or decay when with res at zero. Try it.

 

Here's a video of the cabinet parameters done by the same guy who looked at the EQs. At the end of the video he changes the res. Unfortunately, while he was changing the res, he kept thump and decay at 50%.

 


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#79 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 02:21 PM

rather than trust mr DI (who can err like everyone), trust your ears..

put res at zero, and you will hear that the thump and decay parameters will do nothing at all at any setting..

 

PS.

Dean thanks to some of your old posts regarding the POD internal IRs, and certain statements of DI, recently I have been stimulated to investigate in more detail the cab dep parameters and found that the resonance (resonator) is actually an effect, and is applied by default to all the cabs..

 

in my signature below you can find an interesting doc on the "res" topic, and another one on the amp master volume parameter..

 

 

Thanks hurghanico:

 

You are correct, I just listened and confirmed once the res is zero thump doesn't do anything.  Getting back to the topic of this thread I almost bought a Kemper this past couple of month but somehow I ended up with a Black Star  HT-5r 5 watt tube amp. I turned a closet in my home Semi Studio into an isolotion CAB using Pro quality insulation and sound absorption. A small 1x12 cab goes in there with a mic. I get amazing tones for recording and too many options as I also added a DI that sends a signal from the tube amp speaker out into Cubase where I've been experimenting with IRs. So it's real tube amp into Daw with IRs. The HT5-R emulated output also on it's on is an amazing cabinet emulator. I was pleasantly surprised that The POP HD 500 was pretty damn close and so was the Eleven. In a mix, it would be almost impossible to tell which is the real amp from the POD from the Eleven Rack. 

 

The real tube amp into a DI once Cranked (in the ISO booth) and fed into the DAW is the simplest purest option and no matter how fatigued your ears get, the tone will almost always be good. The HT5 is loud enough to hang with a drummer even at 5watts,so with the ISO closet, I only hear the Mic signal going into the DAW into the studio speakers. I have to admit even though the benefit is there, the POD and Eleven Rack can also  be made to sound and feel very similar, but the amp gives a good reference tone and helps in making presets that actually sound exactly like a miced tube amp. I also bought additional drive and distortions pedals to add more variety. I spent around $700 for amp and Pedals and with the POD or eleven going into the real tube amp, there isn't a sound that I can't get. I'm very happy with my decision not to get a kemper because using the tube amp as a reference, I'm able to make the POD HD sound as good as what I've been hearing from the Kemper or AXII.


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#80 medbad5150

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 12:29 AM

Just read this thread which started two years ago, makes me laugh, I have the HD500 as well as Axe 2, another setup is tarditional Marshall JMD with cab when I wanna get retro, but same as any forum people get so defensive and hostile when a member states they are selling up and going..ha ha kinda strange but people defend their own product and sometimes slate others without realising that it's the negative points that usually prompt change in the product, instead of people dropping onto their knees in gratitude for what the manufacturer has given them.

 

I love all my gear and everything has its place, but bought the Axe too out of frustration with the HD which by the way was decades ahead of my GT10, but people on that forum got narked when I even mentioned the Line 6. There is a wishlist as long as the wall of China on the ideas forum, so obviously people want improvement, its people who take thie dollar eleswhere that make companies listen and make the changes, not the ones whose lip quivers every time someone has lost patience which a product which they also have. Lol the Axe forum is one such place btw..Peace


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