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Sharing Some Experiences From This Weekend.


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#1 litesnsirens

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 06:50 PM

I haven't really had this system for that long but I'm loving it so far.  It's a little heavier and more work than the Bose was to cart around but it's nice to finally have the problem of too much power.  

 

Friday night I played one of my favourite bars with my main band, I used a single L3s with my two L3t's and 3 L2t's for monitors.  I had all the channels bouncing around 0db mark and the main volume at about - 5 db.  It was a good mix and plenty loud for that bar.  I pumped out some canned music between sets and it was just thumping with the single L3s.

 

Saturday night I had a gig doing sound for another band, it was in a hotel conference room and the room was probably 3 times the size of the bar I played the night before.  I rented a second L3s just because I knew the room was going to be a lot bigger and I wanted to make sure I had it covered.  
 

Now here is the strange thing, I had the channels running about the same all dancing around 0db.  I figured I would have the mains up higher than at the bar just because room was so much bigger.  So I started out with the mains at about 0db.  It was crazy loud, I ended up dialling it back bit by bit, hovered around - 5db and then eventually settled for most of the night at -10db.  Now it's quite possible that my band was a little louder out front on Friday night, than I had the band on Saturday, but I doubt by much.

 

Would a second L3s make that much difference in head room?  All of this didn't sink in until today as I rest, watch the leafs beat the bruins and reflect on my busy weekend.  If I had have thought of it at the time, I would have maybe tried taking one of the L3s's offline to see how much overall volume difference it makes.  

 

At any rate I was happy to have a happy band and happy audience for my first gig doing sound with this system.  It's so easy with this mixer.  And sitting out front with my ipad was really cool.  I was just surprised by the difference a second L3s can make.  Now obviously, this isn't a controlled comparison, but just ballparking the difference, room 3 times the size needing 5 db less overall master level.  Food for thought....


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#2 djmathis

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:11 PM

Hi I just picked up 2 l3s and 2 l3t speakers and the m20d.  What were your volume levels on the back of your speakers?  12:00?  Also, what wifi dongle are you using?  I need to get one and also I need to update the firmware in the m20d.  

 

I've only used the system for practice so far but wow what a difference!!  Going to use it for the first time to play a wedding this weekend.


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#3 litesnsirens

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:57 AM

Hi yes, I have all the individual speakers at the 12:00 detent volume level.

I'm using the Samsung WIS12ABGN, I don't think they make the WIS10ABGN anymore which is what Line recommends. If I was to do it over I would go with the other Line 6 recommendation of using an apple USB to Ethernet adaptor and then into an actual wifi router. Just so you get a nice strong signal. My USB wifi stick works but it can be a little dodgy getting connected. It took a long time at first at the gig Saturday, but once I got it it was good all night.,,
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#4 dboomer

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:54 AM

Would a second L3s make that much difference in head room?  All of this didn't sink in until today as I rest, watch the leafs beat the bruins and reflect on my busy weekend.  If I had have thought of it at the time, I would have maybe tried taking one of the L3s's offline to see how much overall volume difference it makes.  

 

You would typically lose 3-6dB if you remove a sub (ours or any brand) depending on how much low frequency coupling you are getting.  That means you would have somewhere between 1/2 to 1/4 of the power available with a pair.

 

I would recommend anyone setting up the system start with all Line 6 speakers set in the 12 o'clock detent position.  If that's too loud then start turning down the mixer.  That's the most simple solution.  

 

If you need more bass I would recommend that you add it to the channels and not turn up the subs as turning up the subs adds more bass to everything, including those channels you do not want to add more bass to.



#5 dboomer

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:01 AM

I've only used the system for practice so far but wow what a difference!!  Going to use it for the first time to play a wedding this weekend.

 

Thanks for the complement.  I just want to point out something because it sometimes gets overlooked.  There is lots of great gear out there in the world. But if you don't have the time or a pro soundman to dial it in on a professional level,  you'll not get the performance  you paid for.  The biggest feature of StageScape is its ability to consistently get you great mixes night after night with very little effort.  It just works so you can go make music.



#6 litesnsirens

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:57 AM

Thanks Don, let me say it's great having you paying the kind of close attention to these threads that you are.  Your expertise and intimate knowledge of the product is very helpful, as this PA system is quite innovative and a new way of approaching sound for a lot of us.  I totally agree with your comments on the StageScape mixer, sound check for the band Saturday night was about 10 minutes.  Other than the fact that I started out too loud the sound was great all night.  I had to make some minor adjustments here and there as there were a number of guest players who got up with the band to do some tunes.   I was going to mic all the drums but ended up just using a mic on the kick and a couple of overhead condensors and the drums sound was fantastic.  I don't think I will ever go back to doing more than that.  It's quick, simple and the M20d makes it easy.

 

I also agree, 12:00 detent on the speakers.  There's plenty of power there.  Thanks also for the math on the effect of the second L3s.  I understand a bit of that stuff and understand just by the nature of adding a second one I would be doubling the power and getting at least another 3db but I thought it would be only in the range up to 100hz.  It seemed the overall level was louder across the whole frequency spectrum.  I wouldn't be gaining much in the way of coupling as I didn't have them stacked on top of each other.  I had one on each side of the stage, so 16' apart.

 

Here is a picture of the stage set up, you can see my cool light rig from the other thread as well.

 

Attached File  IMG_0630.JPG   144.13KB   44 downloads

 

I would totally recommend this PA to anyone.  I kind of felt like a hero for getting such a great sound on Saturday night both out front and monitor mix, but I have to give the credit to the dream stage system...


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#7 dboomer

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:49 PM

First thanks for the photo.  We worked for over 4 years to develop and build this system and seeing it in action makes us feel great for it.  By the look of your drum set ... are you in Canada?

 

Anyway, coupling usually happens below about 100 Hz or so because the wavelengths are such that stacking cabs together gives you something like "drafting" in auto racing.  In this case you can end up with 6 dB more output for free  Some users stack their subs together in the center and put the top boxes on tripod stands.  I didn't know how you were setup so I just left it open to the possibility



#8 litesnsirens

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:53 PM

Yes, I'm in Canada... and very glad you guys spent the time developing this system, it's an absolute pleasure to use.  I have a bit of an understanding of the concept of the coupling (probably just enough to be dangerous), but I can't imagine I would entertain that idea with these speakers, not for what I do anyway.  These speakers are so well balanced and interact so well together, I wouldn't want to mess with that.  If I stacked them it might just mean that I have to turn down the bass to compensate.


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#9 litesnsirens

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 04:27 PM

@djmathis, I just wanted to report back with a bit of an update.  I'm now wishing I had never bought the Samsung wifi dongle.  While it works it is a little sketchy.  I decided to invest $40 in the apple wifi to ethernet adaptor.  I already have an apple time capsule which is basically an airport extreme with a hard drive as well as an airport express which is a much more portable wifi router which I use just to extend the wifi range in my house since it just plugs into a wall socket and there are no other cables attached to it, I figure it could do double duty with the M20d.  First test with this setup made me very happy that I spent the $40.  This is far quicker and far more reliable in making a connection between the M20d and my iPad mini. I sometimes wait 20 minutes with the samsung dongle to get a connection.  It seems once I get it I can make subsequent connections more quickly, but this system is instant.  Line 6 reccomends this and I have to agree the best way to go.


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