In-ear-monitoring Help

[Themoe1001]

I am looking for some in depth information about running a full band with in ear monitoring using the m20d. This has been a topic before but nobody has really done a step by step guide on how this would work. I want to get us a decent wireless in ear system that would take the place of monitor speakers on stage. The goal obviously is to have separate mixes going to each individual in the band and hopefully with the ability to have a click track only in the in ears somehow. I'm new to the in ear world so I don't even really understand the basics of how I would get from the m20d -> 1 transmitter -> 4 differently mixed receivers. Is this too much to ask from the m20d? I have an ipad as well if that can help with any of this.

 

Thanks for any help,

 

Moe

[larryhennessee]

use fhe 4. monitor outs and send each individually to a seperate transmitter each with its own receiver.

each transmitter needs its own monitor mix... of which the m20d will give you 4

you cant get 4 seperate mixes from 1 transmiiter sending to 4 receivers

think of it just like powered floor monitors...

 

Hey Line6 Staff...

the ipad ap lets each ipad user mix thier own monitor mix...

but i really wish the ap would create 5 user codes...and assign the access to the m20d based on code entered.

the five codes would go as follows...

1 - access to all features as it does now

2 thru 5... access to monitor mix only and only a single monitor mix. that was the drimmer would not be able to mess with the guitar players monitor, etc.

[SiWatts69]

I use in-ears, but the rest of the band use wedges.

 

Firstly, how big is your band? ie how many independent mixes are you looking for?

 

Which in ear systems are you looking at?

 

I have the Shure PSM200. The only disadvantage of this being channel availability as it is UHF band so you need to take into account your locality (for the UK we've 4 royalty free channels, so a maximum of 4 channels for radio equipment like radio mics and IEM systems).

 

What IEM systems are you looking at?

[SiWatts69]

each transmitter needs its own monitor mix... of which the m20d will give you 4

 

 

Not strictly true.

 

My Shure PSM200 has two input channels and is very easy to use to set up a simple "more me" based mix. On the front of the PSM200 are two XLR/Jack combi inputs, and on the back are two XLR outs. The out is a straight pass-thru of what goes in at the input.

 

So, by feeding a single summed main FOH mix into channel 1, then routing the instrument in thru channel 2, we can boost the relative signal level (channel 2) for the individual.

Channel 1 out then daisy chains on to PSM200 # 2 channel 1 in.

Channel 2 out goes to the performers input channel on the desk.

 

PSM200 has a maximum of 4 available channels (though country restrictions may limit this) so it is possible to have up to 4 independent IEM mixes from a single monitor send on the M20d. The other three monitor sends could then be used for other purposes. Channel numbers may be limited by other radio equipment like radio mics if those items are not 2.4Ghz items and are therefore using the same UHF channel space.

 

There are (more expensive) IEM systems that can do similar for a higher number of IEM channels

[LDBecker]

I just this week picked up the Sennheiser EW 300 G3 IEMs and am really impressed - lists for about $1k. I use it with a Presonus 24.4.2 board in church (and my personal 16.4.2 for off-site stuff) and found it easy to set up, clear and good coverage in my church's sanctuary - I'm about 100' from the mixer when I'm using it. I also have the Sennheiser G3 wireless guitar setup, and a Sennheiser G3 ENG mike kit for my Canon XF 300 video camera - so I also ordered the charger and a couple of rechargeable battery sets for it. Pricey - but since I have several Sennheiser sets that use identical batteries - and I'm tired of replacing the AA batteries - I thought it would work out well.

 

I'll be doing my first church service with the IEMs tomorrow and am looking forward to it. I preach every week, as well as play guitar and sing. My singers have a monitor and my keyboard player has one, but I haven't had one - This should be great... I also got the wifi hookup working on the Presonus so I can control the monitor mixes from my iPhone 5s, and the whole thing from my iPad if I want.

 

On that subject - what a needless pain it is to get the Presonus working with a computer. It requires a firewire port, and a VERY SPECIFIC chipset (TI, I think) in that port. I'm a PC guy - Have you tried to find a laptop with a firewire port lately? The one I found, a Sony F5 i7 laptop, has a not quite compatible firewire port - I can get the mixes going, I can save settings, but - after some upgrades to the OS (Win7) and the Presonus software, I haven't been able to record at all - and it was sometimes a little iffy when it did work. It sounds like the Line 6 mixer has really sorted some of that stuff out - I'm envious!

 

Larry

[larryhennessee]

Let's be more specific...

There are a limit of 4 unique monitor mixes coming out of the M20D. Plus the main stereo mix.

If you have other methods of blending a source signal uniquely with each of the Monitor outs at the transmitter - then kudos!

I have 2 in ear systems personally, the Shure and the Galaxy. The SHURE transmitter does allow me to loop 2 more inputs, such as a mic or line out of guitar and mix it on the transmitter.

I prefer personally to use the Galaxy...better sound, cheaper, stereo...but I also have the Behringer PM16 I was using prior to getting the M20D.

But since the M20D does not have direct outs for 16 channels....I MUST use the ipad and monitor mixer to create exactly what I need to hear.

I'm sure there are many other ways to potentally configure this, but in the end...there's 4 monitor mixes plus a stereo main out - that's it.

 

Hey Line 6 Guys - can the ipad ap be updated to allow a single monitor mix...?

[ArneLine6]

To get safer access to individual monitor mixes you could use the iPad(‘s) in Fader View mode. (Perform mode-> Fader View button in the upper right)

Then you can select one Monitor Send to be on the faders.

 

Dropdown.pdf

 

 

You get a view that has only the sends for one specific monitor.

 

Mons on Faders.pdf

 

You could also create groups like “All Others†and “Me†to get an easy “Me vs Them†control.

[larryhennessee]

Thank you ArneLine6...

That is what I was planning to do until there is a new version of the app....which I am sure many would enjoy the new feature I have suggested...hint hint....

thanks you

[SiWatts69]

m20d -> 1 transmitter -> 4 differently mixed receivers

 

Nope this can't be done.

 

as Larry has stated, you have 4 independent monitor mixes available on the M20d. Additionally, you have the main L/R outs which can be used for "more me" style monitor mixing. Thus with most IEM systems, you can have just the four independent DISTINCT mixes.

4 monitor sends > 4 IEM transmitters -> 4 IEM receivers (though you could have more than 4 receivers if band members share the same monitor mix.

 

Some IEM hardware has selectable stereo inputs where you can control how the "sides" are split at the receiver. The only benefit here would be being able to reduce the transmitters to 2.

 

Some IEM hardware has "loop thru" options (like my Shure PSM200).

For this method you can create a base front of house mix which is fed in along with the artist's own input signal (their input signal goes to IEM trasmitter BEFORE getting to the M20d). This gives you a "more me" setup. The FOH aspect of the mix can be tapped either from the main L/R outs (if you are using L6Link for your speakers OR have a signal splitter) OR from one of the four monitor channels on the M20d.

As this can be daisy chained, more than 4 independent mixes can be achieved, BUT your limiting factor is the number of available frequency channels IF you want to run all IEM's as wireless). You are also limited where you have other radio equipment. For example, I have radio mic gear and IEM, one running on channel 2 the other on channel 4. That leaves just 2 free channels for others to use for IEM. You *may* have more than 4 frequency channels available where you are. You'll need to check with your national radio licensing authority.

 

Larry... You were technically correct in what you stated; there are four monitor sends and that's all. But as I found when first using this forum, the posts of greatest use are often the ones which describe workarounds that guide us toward our own solutions. Often those workarounds with the greatest insight discuss the additional equipment used/needed to achieve what was asked (see some of Ron's excellent posts for examples). I'll not comment on sound quality of your Galaxy system vs the Shure, I'm sure you know your own gear. For me, the "more me" mix is exactly what I want so the Shure made perfect sense for me and my solution at the time (we used to run through a desk with only 2 monitor sends). As it happens, we've still a spare monitor channel left. I use one for a full FOH mix for me (though since we got the Line6 rig, I am no longer looping my mic signal through the PSM as I just boost it in that monitor channel on the desk), then we run 2 L2m's for the 2 singers. Keyboard player uses a pass-thru method with a single monitor near him so it only has his keyboards in it like a backline amp, and everyone else is reliant on ambient stage noise BUT we could, for bigger gigs run a FOH mix out as side fills and run a dedicated monitor for the drummer if he needed it. Then again, we are still playing in the traditional fashion with bass and guitar backlines.

 

And so we're back to the request of Line6 to make a 2.4Ghz/5GHz digital IEM system where there are more frequency bands available.

[Digital-sound]

Yes, I think the second post answered the question on how best to use in ears with the M20d. Just 4 outs to 4 transmitters. However, if your IEM syatem allows for another input for the "more me" feature, that would allow more options if, for example, you use the main outs too (assuming you are using L6 link). Then you could just add yourself in to the main mix at you transmitter. (And now I just re read your post more thoroughly SiWatts69 and guess I repeated you).

[litesnsirens]

I also use the Sennheiser in ears.. I love them.  They can take stereo inputs.. I found the best value is to by the transmitter with 2 receivers at 1200 its a great deal, I have two of these so, two transmitters and 4 receivers.  As far as I can figure this can only really give me two separate mixes but I find that setting up a stereo mix really help reduce the need for 4 separate mixes. When you can pan things it really helps you pick yourself out in the mix without the need of making ME louder.  So ultimately, a mix for bass and drums stereo and a mix for guitarist/ keyboardist stereo should make everyone happy.  I mean it's a huge step up from everyone sharing one floor wedge mix which many of us did for years and years.  I feel like all the advancements in technology is turning is into a bunch of princesses... I'm into it all, but at the same time, our band can suffer through only having two in ear stereo mixes...or one wireless stereo mix, one mono wireless mix and one wired mono mix which is another option with another minor expense of an XLR to headphone device.

[scotterp]

I feel like all the advancements in technology is turning is into a bunch of princesses... 

 

I love that comment. Actually made me LOL. It's so true.

[Digital-sound]

I love that comment. Actually made me LOL. It's so true.

Yes, it is true. We all got by on just one with so many of the smaller boards. And it was great at the time!

[lightninboy]

i have the line 6 m20d board, psm200 wireless ears, CTM triple driver earbuds, - but i cant get vocal clarity from the the monitor mix. i can plug direct into the wiresless and its perfect. i guess my question is...what am i doing wrong?

[eklynx]

Without really understanding what "can't get vocal clarity" means, my initial guess is your signal to the IEM is too hot.  Bring down the send to the monitor to see if that clears it up?

[litesnsirens]

I find I can only bring the monitor send on the m20d up to -29 db or it overdrives the input on the transmitter.  So eklynx could be right, it could be distorting your mix.

 

Other than that it's hard to tell what you're doing wrong when we don't know what you're doing at this time.  It could simply be that you need a better over all monitor mix.  I would un-link the monitor levels from the mains, record 20 seconds of a song (maybe a verse and chorus) into the m20d, then turn all the channels down to 0 and build the monitor mix up instrument by instrument while you play back the recording.

 

On a separate note since my last post we have actually gone down to using a single stereo mix for all of us.  That's right we are all sharing one mix.  The thing I found with using individual monitor mixes, the "more me" concept was the disconnect that can happen to the unity of the band which affects the over all performance.  Here is an example, I have a mix in which my guitar and my vocals are boosted just a bit over the rest of the mix, and each other musician has the same thing going on.

 

So now the drummer is singing a song and I'm going to do back up vocals in the chorus.  His vocal is boosted in his mix so he just sings comfortably and it sounds great in his mix, but his vocals are a little soft in my mix.  But my vocals are boosted, so when I'm trying to do back ups it sounds to loud to me in my in ear mix so I back off the mic to make it blend in, in my mix.  So now it's certainly going to sound like I'm barely singing in my drummer's mix and maybe only slightly better in the house mix.  Same thing is going to happen with the instruments, you don't play as loud during certain sections because you are having the impression that your instrument is taking over.  Now of course, this isn't going to happen to inexperienced musicians because their attitude is that the audience only wants to hear them anyway and my back up vocals should drown out the lead vocal.  But to seasoned musicians that care about how they fit in as one part of a bigger picture these separate mixes can affect performance.  So we've decided we can compromise and learn to play with out "me" taking over the whole mix.  - just a thought for your consideration.  At the end of the day, many bands like and use individual mixes... so to each his own.