M20d Recording Issue

[frankwillis]

When we recorded to an SD card and played it back, the playback was perfect.

However, on the next three gigs the playback was terrible--bad mix or bad sound or both

 

Each time we setup we set up at different locations, and we did not try to use setups from previous locations.  We did a new one for each gig.  But the only one out of 4 gigs that had good playback was the very first gig.

 

Seems like the M20d is corrupting file structure or something. 

 

The raw track recordings when played back on Studio One or other computer software are fine.  It is just the playback on M20d after our very first gig is completely unacceptable. 

 

What is wrong?

 

The m20d has HUGE potential, but we need this serious problem remedied.

 

Thanks

[SiWatts69]

If you haven't already done so, update to V1.2 of the StageScape firmware. There were recording issue fixes in the release.

[ArneLine6]

When the files are fine on a computer it is just a matter of the mix and tweak settings. Did you try to open the recording folders with the first setup? This makes of course only sense if the input channels are the same.

You can also try different presets and channel and fx levels.

[frankwillis]

Thank you but I am not sure I described my problem clearly enough.

 

We did a new setup at a new venue, and it was different from our previous gig setup at a different venue.

When we did new setup and recorded a test song, we noticed the problem when we played it back.  The mix was nothing like what we recorded.   It is like it must have

pulled the setup from some other setup and tried to use it.  When we adjust that mix to something that sounds good, and we play live, our mix is off terribly.

It is like the M20d is pulling setup from the wrong setup.

 

Also, I noticed that if you take the wav files the system generates and try to play them in other software, like Intonia, it won't even read the wav files.  Transcribe wont read them

either.  It appears that the wav files might be corrupted.

 

Also tried to copy a data file from the sd card, and the file structure seems messed up. When I click on a file and view properties, it is not the same file in the properties menu.

 

I erased the entire card using m20d and started over.  Will try again.

 

Please check to see if the m20d is corrupting files.

 

THANKS!

[bassman24]

Hi,

 

from what you describe in your post: Have you tried using another SD Card? And you should check if the SD Card you are using is fat32 formatted in your computer and is also a Class 10 card, like it is recommended by Line6.

 

It may be possible you have a corrupt SD Card or a non Class 10 card.

 

Also make sure that you navigate to the root of the SD Card once before you start recording with a new setting and maybe choose another folder for new recordings.

[jaminjimlp]

Hi,

 

from what you describe in your post: Have you tried using another SD Card? And you should check if the SD Card you are using is fat32 formatted in your computer and is also a Class 10 card, like it is recommended by Line6.

 

+1.....

 

Also I found that if you take any songs off of the card on a computer when you go back to run it in the M 20 D that it no longer works (records a few seconds and then stops ) I use a 64 GB SD card and do not erase anything anymore but I have copied some of the folders and it is fine. You can get minitool partition wizard for free. each time that you were setting up did you do the auto trim and then record your sound check recording?

[SiWatts69]

+1.....

 

Also I found that if you take any songs off of the card on a computer when you go back to run it in the M 20 D that it no longer works (records a few seconds and then stops ) I use a 64 GB SD card and do not erase anything anymore but I have copied some of the folders and it is fine. You can get minitool partition wizard for free. each time that you were setting up did you do the auto trim and then record your sound check recording?

Interesting observation Jim. I've used my 32GB class10 in the PC, copied all files and have no issues with them. Put the card back in the mixer; no issues. Erased some files (to make space) on the PC and now the remaining recording starts to crackle BUT the crackle isn't consistent, as of there is a problem reading the card. I'll use a fresh card for our gig on friday, format the original and see whether the card is fully usable again. I just daren't record to it on friday, but I need to as at our last gig I managed to not set the recording off for the first three songs of first set... all done back to back so I didn't get chance.

 

As an aside, I've now mixed down the tracks from that gig (except 2 where an error was too big to cover up!). Used Mixcraft... Lovin this option :-)

[scotterp]

I've had success with a 16GB USB stick (2 of them actually). I fit 2 sets per stick - 4 sets for a complete night. I've copied files off of them, put them back in the mixer, cleared files from them from the mixer and from the a PC and have not had any issues at all. 

 

I too am loving this option!

[jaminjimlp]

I've had success with a 16GB USB stick (2 of them actually). I fit 2 sets per stick - 4 sets for a complete night. I've copied files off of them, put them back in the mixer, cleared files from them from the mixer and from the a PC and have not had any issues at all. 

 

I too am loving this option!

wow, how many inputs are recording at once and dose that include the main mix as well? I have done it before but since it was recomended that you use the SD cl 10 card I bought 1.

[scotterp]

wow, how many inputs are recording at once and dose that include the main mix as well? I have done it before but since it was recomended that you use the SD cl 10 card I bought 1.

 

I'm recording 13 inputs and sometimes the main mix. I've typically only used the inputs when mixing down after the fact and not using the main mix so I don't always record that. Our sets are about 45 minutes long. I still have room left over after 2 sets, but not enough to record a 3rd. Each set takes up about 6-7GB. 

 

I've also used SD cards but they seem to be finicky. Sometimes the mixer can read them and sometimes it can't. I don't seem to have that same issue with the USB stick. That's why I have 4 SD cards with me - I never know when one was not going to work. Of course, this means that you can't use the USB input for something else - which is ok for me because I'm not. 

 

I've just ordered a 32GB USB stick to see if it will work with the mixer. That way I can't get a whole show on just one stick. 

 

So far, for me, the USB stick has been more consistent than SD cards.

[dboomer]

Most USB sticks are not fast enough and crash a few seconds or minutes into the recording  YMMV.

[scotterp]

Most USB sticks are not fast enough and crash a few seconds or minutes into the recording  YMMV.

I guess my mileage has been good so far.  :)

[gordwait]

I too found that when I deleted folders on the SD card on my mac, that I can no longer use the card in the M20D. It spins on "initializing"..

I'll try to erase the card in the m20d instead and see what happens.

Note that same card is still fine when I put it back into the Mac..

 

Kind of buggy.. 

[gordwait]

Aha..

I used the mac command line to poke around the SD card and found a whole bunch of "hidden" files that the M20d put there. 

I completely erased every file and folder on the SD card and now the M20d likes it again.

 

I recorded some stuff to play around and found:

 

  If I delete the recording folder on the sd card using the M20D my card behaves just fine. 

  If I delete the recording it using the Mac, it messes up the card for the M20d. 

 

 

My guess is those files store the state it thinks the SD card is in, and when you delete a file using a PC or Mac then it no longer matches, and the M20D operating system gets messed up. 

 

Moral of the story, delete old recordings using the M20d or go in with some PC/MAC utility and wipe the card completely clean between recording sessions..

[dboomer]

I guess my mileage has been good so far.   :)

 

Can you tell us the specific details of your USB sticks?

[jaminjimlp]

Aha..

I used the mac command line to poke around the SD card and found a whole bunch of "hidden" files that the M20d put there. 

I completely erased every file and folder on the SD card and now the M20d likes it again.

 

I recorded some stuff to play around and found:

 

  If I delete the recording folder on the sd card using the M20D my card behaves just fine. 

  If I delete the recording it using the Mac, it messes up the card for the M20d. 

 

 

My guess is those files store the state it thinks the SD card is in, and when you delete a file using a PC or Mac then it no longer matches, and the M20D operating system gets messed up. 

 

Moral of the story, delete old recordings using the M20d or go in with some PC/MAC utility and wipe the card completely clean between recording sessions..

 

Oh that's great info I really appreciate that because sometimes I don't want to go ahead and have to wipe everything off and that would be a really easy way to do it with M 20 D still have space and not mess with the stuff I want to leave on there. that's why I love this forum because you can find out so much cool stuff that you can really use

[scotterp]

Can you tell us the specific details of your USB sticks?

 

I have 2 Kingston Digital Traveler SE9 16GB sticks. I bought them here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006W8U2WU/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

 

According to some of the reviews, the write speed is nothing beyond "average". The only failure I've had with them is when we lost power in the middle of a song and the files did not get properly written. Other than that, probably 8-10 gigs so far without a problem. 

[scotterp]

Aha..

I used the mac command line to poke around the SD card and found a whole bunch of "hidden" files that the M20d put there. 

I completely erased every file and folder on the SD card and now the M20d likes it again.

 

I recorded some stuff to play around and found:

 

  If I delete the recording folder on the sd card using the M20D my card behaves just fine. 

  If I delete the recording it using the Mac, it messes up the card for the M20d. 

 

 

My guess is those files store the state it thinks the SD card is in, and when you delete a file using a PC or Mac then it no longer matches, and the M20D operating system gets messed up. 

 

Moral of the story, delete old recordings using the M20d or go in with some PC/MAC utility and wipe the card completely clean between recording sessions..

 

I am now using a Mac (work computer) and also noticed funnies like this. I also run a Windows VM on the Mac and I have found that if I load the SD cards (or USB sticks) only on the Windows VM, I don't have these same issues. 

 

Once I have copied the files off of the media I'm using, I completely clear them off (within Windows) before using them again and have not had any issues since then. 

[gordwait]

Double aha!

Scotterp's comment made me take another look. 

The "hidden" files that showed up on my SD card that I could see from the Mac command line are Mac OSX files, not M20D files. 

I looked up the directory names   ".Spotlight-V100" and .Trashes and .fseventsd and found out that Mac OSX creates these on any new SD card plugged into the Mac. 

(to do with Mac OSX disk search and backup software)

 

So the updated theory is that the M20D doesn't like these files..

 

Windows probably doesn't put the same sort of files on the SD card, so the M20D doesn't get bothered with these hidden folders.

[scotterp]

Last night I tried a new USB device, a 64GB stick from Patriot. Recorded all four sets without a hitch. 

[Digital-sound]

I recently did a recording of our night, and at the end, I forgot to stop the recording and another band member hit the power before I even thought about it. But no problems whatsoever with the files. All there, and all good. I was worried they were lost after reading about several issues on here. I have been lucky in that I have never had a recording issue even though I have been careless. It's best to practice the proper procedures, but, I think it is like dealing with any drive or card, and the proper "ejection" procedures. It will probably be ok, but if the recording is important, be careful!