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Antenna Cable Length? Xd-v75

antenna cable xd-v75

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#1 sleah

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:42 AM

Hello,

I have a couple of questions about remote antenna, specifically the P360 & P180.

 

I'm considering permanently mounting the antenna closer to the acting area. However that will of course take the antenna further from the receiver rack.

Is 50ft the maximum cable length?

 

Also, I'm considering getting a pair of P180 paddles (currently have P360) and am unsure about placement, the pdf isn't too clear.

 

Should the paddle face the transmission area flat on or edge on? And which way relative to the onboard PCB?

Does positioning make any difference to the P360 interms of flat on/edge on?

 

Thanks.

Simon

 

 


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#2 RonMarton

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 12:46 PM

This PDF should answer most of your questions, Simon...

 

http://line6.com/dat...h ( Rev B ).pdf

 

FYI, I have found the non-directional pick-up of the P360 to be great for stand mounting in the middle of some "sales conference-type" venues to cover "walking and talking" from the body of a hall,  (often as "one half" of a diversity pair) but that this sort of mounting hardly ever applies to most other "showbusiness" applications.

 

When you get them, you'll find that P180s bear the legend "This Side Faces Transmitter", as distinct from the much more common "log periodic" plate-style antennae that need to be oriented "side on" compared to P180s, with the log periodic array's "spine" aimed "rifle style" towards the transmitters they're intended to receive. 

 

While over 100ft is achievable with top quality cabling, I've actually yet to be in a situation (in two years of constant touring) where pairs of these pre-made 50ft cables https://www.globalfu...ode=98-033-0018 hasn't done the job when using my two pairs of P180 paddles.

 

That's because my two racks (each being four XD-V70s Monkey-updated to the latest firmware) exhibit "set and forget" reliability that allows easy placement in any available wing or "perch" space backstage, generally with one "half" of each diversity pair quite close to the rack, (on 25ft, or less, of cable) with only its diversity "mate" requiring the threading of a 50ft cable to achieve its coverage of the same performance space from a totally different angle and somewhat different height. 


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#3 sleah

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 07:40 AM

Thanks RonMarton. It's great to get feedback from someone using kit in the real world rather than relying on what the manual says is possible.

 

Just to give some more info on what I'm doing....

I have a rack of 12 XD-V75 all with lapel-bodypack transmitters for use in school theatre, in a school hall environment as opposed to a dedicated theatre space.

They have a habit of doing some productions facing the stage & pro-arch and some facing the back of the room with with the tech area behind the back row of seats under the pro-arch. Hence it is impossible to have a permanent sound/lighting control installation.

This means the radio mics are always working hard as the receivers are effectively behind the audience with the paddles on sticks.

My plan is to permanently install paddles in the lighting grid area roughly above the acting area and run cables to wall plates.

Unfortunately, I will almost certainly have to use two systems (even if one set of paddles would be adequate distance wise) as I doubt one set of paddles effectively in the middle of a 100ft cable (using a T) with one end left unterminated, would work very well, unless someone can suggest otherwise?

I say the middle of 100ft cable, as I would need one wall plate back stage and one at the back of the hall and would connect to whichever end the receivers are placed.

 

I guess that's as clear as mud!!!


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#4 RonMarton

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 12:26 PM

...I guess that's as clear as mud!!!

 

It seems very clear to me, Simon...

 

...I wish all such "briefs" were as well described when they're posted here, so congratulations !  ;)

 

Sadly, your dilemma is one that I've often struck, not just in the dreaded "multi-purpose hall" such as yours, but also whenever theatre companies attempt to "break out" from their traditional proscenium "end stages" for a given "in the round" production.

 

While your fear of needing to invest double in order to "re-patch" between two complete "back to back" antenna installations is completely justified, the experience I've had in touring my P180 equipped systems makes me think that it'll probably be a whole lot less fraught than you think.

 

I'd propose that you start with just one pair of P180 paddles and a pair of 50ft LMR-195 cables.

 

As you're running a maximum of 12 systems, I'd recommend switching them to the more robust, four-frequency diversity RF1 scheme and conducting fully-populated walk-test trials for positioning that pair of antennae.

 

...I doubt one set of paddles effectively in the middle of a 100ft cable (using a T) with one end left unterminated, would work very well...

 

…Quite so, in fact I'd go so far as to predict a set-up like that would very likely be an unmitigated disaster ! 

 

However, I would NOT be surprised to hear that you'd eventually found a "compromise" position for your single diversity pair of P180 paddles that (using RF1) yielded solid results over your entire auditorium...

 

…following some thinking that's "lateral" in more ways than one.  :wacko:

 

I'm guessing that your hall's "lighting grid" only exists over the "conventional" stage behind its proscenium arch and curtains that are at one end.

 

Accordingly, my suggestion would be to possibly abandon this as being the primary or exclusive support for your pair of P180 paddles, in favour of experimentation atop tall boom stands possibly yielding a location (or locations) out from and along one side wall that give/s you the coverage you're seeking.

 

Literally laterally, ...in that both antennae may end up "looking across" the hall, or one could end up "looking along" it from that lighting grid, with its "mate" covering the hall from its side wall, almost at a right angle to the first. 

 

Once those best coverage "spots" are revealed, I find that this sort of (relatively cheap) hardware is then handy to subsequently arrange permanent mounting:

 

http://www.bhphotovi...d_Podium.html 

 

http://www.sweetwate...detail/BoomMini

 

http://www.bhphotovi...ith_Clutch.html


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#5 Sheriton

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:58 AM

The other thing to consider of course is that balanced audio cables can carry microphone signals over much greater distances without problems than coax can carry RF signals. Is there any reason why you couldn't determine a single suitable position for your receivers and just run a mic multicore between that and wherever the mix position ends up? I assume you already have to run audio cables from your movable mix position to the amp rack / speakers anyway.


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#6 sleah

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:11 AM

Thanks Ron. I should have been more specific, the lighting grid covers the body of the hall, there is just one bar back stage - that rarely if ever gets used!

I can count on one hand the number of times the main stage area (behind the pro-arch) has been used in the last 20 years...... hence I'm looking at putting paddles over the main body of the hall.

I'm sure you're right that one set would cover all eventualities, however if I use one set and cable to backstage, then I'm stuffed when they perform the other way as the wall plate would be at the wrong end! That's the reason I'm thinking I may need two sets.

 

Oh why can't they perform in the same orientation every time! :lol:


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#7 RonMarton

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 06:12 AM

...I'm sure you're right that one set would cover all eventualities, however if I use one set and cable to backstage, then I'm stuffed when they perform the other way as the wall plate would be at the wrong end! That's the reason I'm thinking I may need two sets...

 

Sheriton's advice pretty much covers this, once you've found those "sweet" spots for your single pair of P180s. It should be even easier if you can "hang" them from the grid using something like the On-Stage MSA9508 boom that has a clamp at its clutch end.

 

...Is there any reason why you couldn't determine a single suitable position for your receivers and just run a mic multicore between that and wherever the mix position ends up? I assume you already have to run audio cables from your movable mix position to the amp rack / speakers anyway.

 

The "set and forget" stability of my XD-V systems has been such that I'd have no misgivings about locating the receivers themselves in that overhead grid and only running a sixteen-way star-quad audio multi down to my mixing position/s.

 

I say sixteen circuits only because with star-quad, the isolation is such that the extra four might prove really handy for "returns" to drive such things as hanging powered loudspeakers for theatrical effects or in-ear monitor transmitters.


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