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How Much I Liked This Song When It Came Out..

variax 700 hd500 strato plexi blackmore input2=null smoke on the water

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#1 hurghanico

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 03:04 AM

...inspired by a fire whose smoke has spread over the waters of a lake in Switzerland and which destroyed the concert hall where the Deep Purple were going to do some recordings the day after..

..I still like it after all this time passed (I'm dating myself, I know, ah ah..),.. probably one of the first riffs I learned when I was very young.. but the solo part came to my fingers only later when I was more experienced.. I still remember it almost note for note ..

I'm really enjoying some new sounds I'm getting using only a single HD500 input, and so I recorded a snippet of this song using that setting..

In this case I used a very classic guit/amp combination for a sound quite similar to that of Ritchie Blackmore during its period with the Deep Purple, using a Strato model and a Plexi model..

I don't have also the reel to reel recorder that he used as a booster between the guitar and the amp .. in its placeI I tried to use the tube echo with the mix to 0%, which doing so eliminates the delay but leaves the valve effect on the sound .. it is a very interesting effect for future uses, but not suitable for the sound I was looking for in this case..


the settings details are below the track in soundcloud:

https://soundcloud.c...ke-on-the-water


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#2 arislaf

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 03:19 AM

You awesomely nailed it hurghanico! Great job!


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#3 hurghanico

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 03:24 AM

Thanks Aris :)


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#4 RIblues

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 04:32 AM

Fantastic! Your onto something with the single input approach. 


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#5 Akeron

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 05:43 AM

Great sound! I only wonder why you have deleted the thread with the single input "discovery" :) Probably it's still there but I can't seem to find that anymore...


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#6 hurghanico

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 08:54 AM

Thank you guys, I'm glad you liked it.. :)

 

Great sound! I only wonder why you have deleted the thread with the single input "discovery" :) Probably it's still there but I can't seem to find that anymore...

 

Akeron you 're absolutely right .. I admit that I am not a completely normal person .. :rolleyes:
even though I promised not to do it again, I myself deleted my last thread on the use of a single input .. I deserve no mercy .. :angry:

sometimes I'm afraid to say wrong things , or to
not explain them in the best possible way, and that's why I remove some my posts .. to eventually return to talk about it in a better way later .. B)

in this case I experimented further and I think I finally came to the final maturity of my idea .. that basically confirms what I wrote in my previous
deleted thread,.... I believe that soon I'll reopen a thread on that topic, even more detailed .. because it is a topic that deserves to be treated well, and be known ..

in the old dead forum (which I prefer a thousand times than the current one), there was a pinned thread called "What every HD500 owner needs to know!" ( link here: http://line6.com/sup...ew/thread/74045
) which explained pretty much the same thing, it was very popular and read by thousands of people really happy to have finally discovered that very important but almost hidden little detail..

 

think that I myself was contrary to that solution, but lately I've changed my mind and I think no longer have doubts


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#7 Metalchef

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 12:55 PM

Great job man I have been in a tone slump for a little bit now and your achievements on your page have given me some refrence points and great patches. You da man.... I love my DT 50 2x12 & pod500 set up but I have yet to bring myself to get a variax. You are sing a variax correct. I guess I'm part of the group of old farts that can only take technological advancements one step at a time. I have been thinking about a JTV89. Guess it just seemed a little gimmicky. I know I'm probably wrong but I haven't found a store near me in Columbia, SC that has one for me to try out. But awesome as usual and I dig the sound cloud page. It's not easy to post your music for the world to critique and I for one am glad u have and commend you sir.
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Yes I hear the cries of the carrots.... For it is harvest day and to them it is the Holocaust..... So I say let the rabbits wear glasses....

#8 hurghanico

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 02:26 PM

Great job man I have been in a tone slump for a little bit now and your achievements on your page have given me some refrence points and great patches..

 

thanks for the nice words ..
I really feel pleased when someone finds useful some things I do and write ..

 

here in this forum everything is an exchange
I too have found and continue to find some useful ideas from others ..

 

as you say, yes, in my soundcloud demos I used a Variax 700 .. which I still consider a very valid instrument,
and an HD500

 

I'm not a lucky owner of a DT amp .. neither of a JTV guitar..

the temptation is there, but maybe in the future ..

as I have always done with all my instruments, I like to find ways to squeeze from what I have at disposal every possible good
bit of sound


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#9 bsheen

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 04:45 AM

Nice recording.  Very clean well put together.


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#10 stumblinman

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 10:04 AM

Great job man I have been in a tone slump for a little bit now and your achievements on your page have given me some refrence points and great patches. You da man.... I love my DT 50 2x12 & pod500 set up but I have yet to bring myself to get a variax. You are sing a variax correct. I guess I'm part of the group of old farts that can only take technological advancements one step at a time. I have been thinking about a JTV89. Guess it just seemed a little gimmicky. I know I'm probably wrong but I haven't found a store near me in Columbia, SC that has one for me to try out. But awesome as usual and I dig the sound cloud page. It's not easy to post your music for the world to critique and I for one am glad u have and commend you sir.


I can't say I blame you on the Variax. Once the electronics fail you will have an expensive PRS/LP/Strat/Dinky copy with Chinese(or Korean? IDK) parts and craftsmanship. For that money you could buy guitars that will retain much higher value long after your Variax has failed.

I use the Pod/DT25 combo, and love it. I had an original Variax and had trouble with the model knob and the piezo saddles so going that route again is tough to fathom for me.

I'm not sure how many experts on here bought theirs and how many were gifts, but they all seem to unanimously love them. If the users that actually paid retail for them stand by them, that's probably the best endorsement. Hurghanico's tones and playing are quite tasteful. Always enjoy his posts :)
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#11 hurghanico

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 11:16 AM

I can't say I blame you on the Variax. Once the electronics fail you will have an expensive PRS/LP/Strat/Dinky copy with Chinese(or Korean? IDK) parts and craftsmanship. For that money you could buy guitars that will retain much higher value long after your Variax has failed.

I use the Pod/DT25 combo, and love it. I had an original Variax and had trouble with the model knob and the piezo saddles so going that route again is tough to fathom for me.

I'm not sure how many experts on here bought theirs and how many were gifts, but they all seem to unanimously love them. If the users that actually paid retail for them stand by them, that's probably the best endorsement. Hurghanico's tones and playing are quite tasteful. Always enjoy his posts :)

 

stumblinman I'm glad that you enjoy my posts :)

You know, in my opinion the real value (what you pay for) of a Variax or the POD is the great versatility and ease of use, with a high standard of sound quality ..

if you need it (like me), you can have many different beautiful sounds, using very little equipment (my back is grateful), both live and for recording ..
if something breaks you can replace it easily enough ..

but in case you need only one type of sound then a standard guitar, a good tube amp (not too powerful) and some stomp boxes are more than enough..


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#12 stumblinman

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 12:07 PM

stumblinman I'm glad that you enjoy my posts :)

You know, in my opinion the real value (what you pay for) of a Variax or the POD is the great versatility and ease of use, with a high standard of sound quality ..

if you need it (like me), you can have many different beautiful sounds, using very little equipment (my back is grateful), both live and for recording ..
if something breaks you can replace it easily enough ..

but in case you need only one type of sound then a standard guitar, a good tube amp (not too powerful) and some stomp boxes are more than enough..


I agree completely. If I had problems with any of my previous Line 6 gear, I might not have bought 2/3rds of the dream rig. I also own an M5 for my traditional pedalboard setup, and it's terrible. Lots of documented issues with grounding problems and rebooting endlessly for no reason. Poorly engineered layout. But my Pod and DT are still kicking after numerous live gigs.

I'm not hard on my gear, and I'm also the owner and caretaker of our lights and sound system, so I know how to treat electronics. Maybe I'm just jaded. Sorry. Hijacking thread. I'm done. I'm glad your Variax is still kicking. Mine had the tremolo on it, so I think that wore down the saddles so they quit working.
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#13 hurghanico

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 02:22 PM

... I'm glad your Variax is still kicking. Mine had the tremolo on it, so I think that wore down the saddles so they quit working...

 

Also my black 700 has the tremolo, but I don't use it very much ..

 

Unfortunately, lately the 6th string saddle has started to give some issues ..
only initially when I connect the guitar, picking on that string, makes a bad noise sometimes intermittent, but hitting a few times the saddle with a pick and pulling the string sideways a couple of times close to the bridge, solves the issue completely and it works without problems for hours ..

 

I think it's time to replace it before it dies completely ..
I'm undecided whether to buy the original saddles or the GraphTech, I would like the sounds to remain the same


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#14 stumblinman

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:13 PM

I read up on the GraphTechs when I had my Variax.  There's an extra wire to ground on them if I recall correctly.  Quality-wise they seem to be better.  You can also lift the saddle out of the seat and turn it 180 degrees so it makes contact with a different point.  That got me by until they just flat out failed.


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#15 gckelloch

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:58 PM

Nice tones man, and solid playing.  I checked out the other tracks.  You really got a handle on this thing.  It's nice to hear you take chances on different styles.

 

I don't own a Pod HD myself, but I sometimes help my brother with his.  I wonder if any of the Tape Delay FX can have the delay time and feedback set the to 0 so they can be used as post amp Tape Saturation?


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#16 hurghanico

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 04:15 AM

I read up on the GraphTechs when I had my Variax.  There's an extra wire to ground on them if I recall correctly.  Quality-wise they seem to be better.  You can also lift the saddle out of the seat and turn it 180 degrees so it makes contact with a different point.  That got me by until they just flat out failed.

 

thanks for the tips.. ;)

 

I have no doubts that the GraphTechs are very good quality, but I heard that they give a much louder output, and also a slight different sound, in case I decide to buy them, I should probably first record the exact dB levels I get now with the original Lr Baggs, and use the workbench later to change the Variax output I get with the GraphTechs to be the same as before..

 

but, if I remember correctly my friend and forum member Arislaf who mounted GraphTechs on his 700, started to have problems with them also, therefore I should deduce that the GraphTechs have a limited life like the Lr Baggs..

 

for now the "turn 180 degrees trick" looks very interesting..

I wonder if also a slight sanding on the saddle could work as well


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#17 hurghanico

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 05:07 AM

Nice tones man, and solid playing.  I checked out the other tracks.  You really got a handle on this thing.  It's nice to hear you take chances on different styles.

 

I don't own a Pod HD myself, but I sometimes help my brother with his.  I wonder if any of the Tape Delay FX can have the delay time and feedback set the to 0 so they can be used as post amp Tape Saturation?

 

Thanks gckelloch for your comment..

 

I really like several genres of music, it's like communicating in different languages, every genre/language has its own magic..

anyway generally I'm slight more jazz-blues-rock oriented..

 

The POD HD it's a wonderful device but especially at the beginning needs some serious time dedication, but it becomes easier and easier going onward..

as I said in my first post, lately I rediscovered the single input approach which is greatly simplifying the creation of my sounds..

 

Soon when I'll find the time I'll record and post a new Robben Ford (he's one of my gurus) type sound demo clip, with a really good sounding patch

 

Regarding the Tape Echo (with the Tube Echo or the Echo Platter you have also an additional tube drive setting), yes, I confirm that can be used with the mix at 0% and the transistor (not tube) module included into the fx will still affect (saturate) the signal, but if placed after the amp model tends to digitally clip quite easily, but no problems if placed instead before.. till now I didn't try with the single input approach if it can work also after the amp.. experiment


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#18 gckelloch

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 10:57 AM

Thanks for checking out the Tape Echo thing. I'm talking more about tape saturation than preamp drive. That would require the mix to be at 100%, and the delay time and feedback at 0%. The Echo Platter might do it. If you are clipping things post amps, you might have your amp Channel Outputs up too high. It's recommended to keep them down ~50%. Maybe higher for clean sounds. I assume if the peaks are not clipping the output mixer block, nothing right after it would clip. I'm going to make some posts regarding unity gain that you might be interested in.


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#19 hurghanico

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 11:51 AM

...I'm talking more about tape saturation than preamp drive. That would require the mix to be at 100%, and the delay time and feedback at 0%....

 

I'm not native english speaking, and probably I didn't explain the tape echo thing in the best way..

 

the mix parameter value on the delay/echo FXs like the tape echo, tube echo and echo platter affects only the volume of the audible repetitions (the pure delay part) but doesn't affect the preamp (transistor or tube) part of the FXs which if still turned on continues to saturate the signal regardless of the mix setting..

 

in other words if you want to eliminate just the delay part from those particular FXs, is sufficient to set the mix at 0%, the preamp part of those FXs will be still working

 

regarding clipping post amp, many FXs don't clip in that position, even if you have the amp volume at 100%..

only some of those tend to easily clip..

 

often to have a decent DAW signal level with the POD through USB is necessary to turn up some dB at the mixer block levels and/or the amp model output volume.. or if you have some clipping issues after the amp or the mixer block you can turn down its level and place instead a eq fx at the very end of the chain to boost the signal from there


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#20 gckelloch

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 02:29 PM

Thanks again.  I only mentioned about how to ensure against post amp FX clipping because you mentioned that certain post FX clip easily.  Still, I wonder if there actually is any tape saturation effect in the Tape Echo FX.  I guess you'd need to turn the delay time and feedback to 0, turn up the drive a bit and adjust the mix knob to see if it sounds different at 0 or 100%?  If the supposed tape saturation sound doesn't sound good post amp with the mix set at 100%, tape saturation is probably not part of the modeling -- just transistor or tube distortion like you said.  That would answer my question. 


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: variax 700, hd500, strato, plexi, blackmore, input2=null, smoke on the water

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