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How Much I Liked This Song When It Came Out..

variax 700 hd500 strato plexi blackmore input2=null smoke on the water

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#21 hurghanico

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 02:55 PM

..I guess you'd need to turn the delay time and feedback to 0, turn up the drive a bit and adjust the mix knob to see if it sounds different at 0 or 100%?..

 

I understand that it's hard to believe, but those FXs of which we are speaking about behave in a particular way:

- if you want to eliminate the delay but you want to retain their preamp feature active, you have to just set the mix at 0%, if you have time to waste you can also set  the delay time at the minimum of 20 ms (below that value is not allowed) and the feedback at 0%, but they don't change anything if the mix is already at 0%..

- the mix value doesn't affect at all the FXs preamp contribution, which can be only on or off.. some of those FXs have also a drive parameter


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#22 gckelloch

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:35 PM

I do believe they operate as you say.  I'm just not sure if there is tape saturation in the delay portion of the sound, as could be determined with the mix at 100%.  I don't think you perceived the distinction I was trying to make.  No matter, 20ms delay is too long for use in playing live.  More than 5ms monitoring delay starts to become confusing for the player, but even 10ms can be OK.


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#23 eenymason

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:33 AM

Nicely done again, hurghanico - showing us how it's done!

With regard to the graphtech output - I recently installed two sets. The first set I changed, I compared the output to those on the 600 I had. I found when I set the graphtech at around 70% volume (set in workbench), they gave very similar output as the 600 standard Baggs piezos (to MY ears anyway). Not scientific, but if you decided to go Graphtech, there's a starting point for you.

I have seen other posts about setting volume to 50% when changing to graptech, but I thought that was quieter when comparing the two.

 

Using Google translation:

Apologies from Google for bad translation!!! :D

Ben fatto nuovo, hurghanico - ci mostra come è fatto!

Per quanto riguarda l'uscita GraphTech - Recentemente ho installato due set. Il primo set ho cambiato, ho confrontato l'uscita a quelli della 600 che avevo. Ho trovato quando ho impostato il GraphTech intorno al 70% del volume (impostato in banco di lavoro), hanno dato uscita molto simile come le 600 piezo standard di Baggs (per le mie orecchie comunque). Non è scientifico, ma se avete deciso di andare Graphtech, c'è un punto di partenza per voi.

Ho visto altri post su come impostare il volume al 50% quando si passa alla graptech, ma ho pensato che era più tranquillo quando si confrontano i due.

 


Edited by eenymason, 19 December 2013 - 02:34 AM.

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#24 hurghanico

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 05:04 AM

Nicely done again, hurghanico - showing us how it's done!

With regard to the graphtech output - I recently installed two sets. The first set I changed, I compared the output to those on the 600 I had. I found when I set the graphtech at around 70% volume (set in workbench), they gave very similar output as the 600 standard Baggs piezos (to MY ears anyway). Not scientific, but if you decided to go Graphtech, there's a starting point for you...

 

thanks for the comment and for helpful advice .. :)
it is very kind of you have also added the translation in my language ..

definitely my English is not perfect, but it seems to me that I can understand and make others understand me well enough ..

is one of the things I try to get better and better over time, and I prefer to make the effort to understand the things written in the native language, without translation ..

is an exercise that helps improve my level, and I do it willingly ..

 

I played in various foreign places, in 2000 I played for almost an entire year in Egypt, from where I almost had to escape in 2001 when there has been the Twin Towers attack in New York,.. there (like in other foreign places) I could and I had to communicate only in English every day, so I did some practice with what luckily I had learned previously at school .. It is certainly not like going to study at Oxford University to perfect the language, but it is better than nothing


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#25 gckelloch

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:29 PM

Say hurgh, sorry for being a "hard cheese".  I kind of forgot about the language barrier.  I think we have managed to solve the question I had.  Thanks a lot for helping.  It's a pleasure to meet you. 


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#26 eenymason

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 02:44 PM

my pleasure!

I tip my hat to you for your efforts in using a language that is not your native language. You do a better job than some others for whom English IS their native language! The reason I translated is that there are some "turns of phrase" that maybe don't make much sense when English is your second language. I love language, and have only ever dabbled in other languages, thus my respect for your efforts not only in sharing your information, but for showing us your tones!

Bravo!

 

il mio piacere!

Mi punta il mio cappello a voi per i vostri sforzi in uso una lingua che non è la vostra lingua madre. Tu fai un lavoro migliore di alcuni altri per i quali l'inglese è la loro lingua madre! La ragione per cui ho tradotto è che ci sono alcuni "giri di parole", che forse non fanno molto senso quando l'inglese è la seconda lingua. Io amo la lingua, e ho sempre dilettata solo in altre lingue, quindi il mio rispetto per i vostri sforzi non solo nel condividere le vostre informazioni, ma per averci mostrato i toni!

Bravo!


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#27 hurghanico

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:02 PM

Say hurgh, sorry for being a "hard cheese".  I kind of forgot about the language barrier.  I think we have managed to solve the question I had.  Thanks a lot for helping.  It's a pleasure to meet you. 

 

it's my pleasure :)

 

"hard cheese" can be grated to put it on spaghetti, tasty.. ah ah..


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#28 hurghanico

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:09 PM

my pleasure!

I tip my hat to you for your efforts in using a language that is not your native language. You do a better job than some others for whom English IS their native language! The reason I translated is that there are some "turns of phrase" that maybe don't make much sense when English is your second language. I love language, and have only ever dabbled in other languages, thus my respect for your efforts not only in sharing your information, but for showing us your tones!

Bravo!..

 

the pleasure's all mine..

 

grazie! = thanks! ;)


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#29 gckelloch

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 03:53 PM

it's my pleasure :)

 

"hard cheese" can be grated to put it on spaghetti, tasty.. ah ah..

Yes, indeed it is.  I'm making baked pasta tonight.  It has been said that I have a grating personality, so I guess I have the grated cheese thing covered :D


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#30 hurghanico

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 04:28 PM

Yes, indeed it is.  I'm making baked pasta tonight.  It has been said that I have a grating personality, so I guess I have the grated cheese thing covered :D

 

Don't forget the tomato sauce, garlic, olive oil, basil and chili .. bon appetite! ;)


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#31 hurghanico

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 11:14 AM

..You can also lift the saddle out of the seat and turn it 180 degrees so it makes contact with a different point.  That got me by until they just flat out failed.

 

I used the trick of turning 180 degrees the saddle, and it seems to work fine .. thanks again for the very good idea
previously, I believed that the saddles should follow one direction, but fortunately it is not so ..

 

when I removed the saddle, I noticed also that inside its housing on the base, there was some material, a kind of dust, which I tried to clean perfectly, I guess that could be the cause of ground problems ..

 

next time I will change the strings, I think I will take the opportunity to clean also the other saddles housings .. even if doing so, then I have to redo the intonation also of the other strings ..

 

I wonder if it might be good or not to put also a thin layer of conductive paste to the base of the piezos to increase adherence and the contact surface between the 2 elements


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#32 stumblinman

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 12:01 PM

I used the trick of turning 180 degrees the saddle, and it seems to work fine .. thanks again for the very good idea
previously, I believed that the saddles should follow one direction, but fortunately it is not so ..

when I removed the saddle, I noticed also that inside its housing on the base, there was some material, a kind of dust, which I tried to clean perfectly, I guess that could be the cause of ground problems ..

next time I will change the strings, I think I will take the opportunity to clean also the other saddles housings .. even if doing so, then I have to redo the intonation also of the other strings ..

I wonder if it might be good or not to put also a thin layer of conductive paste to the base of the piezos to increase adherence and the contact surface between the 2 elements


Glad it helped. As far as using paste, I can't offer advice, as I haven't tried that. I'm guessing the dust is small shavings of the saddles that have worn off from use. I hope the trick extends the life of your Variax!
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#33 hurghanico

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 12:54 PM

...I'm guessing the dust is small shavings of the saddles that have worn off from use...

 

yes, most likely as you say, there could be together also normal dust coming from outside, mixed with tiny bits of skin and condensed sweat, after all that is the point where it happens more often to rest the palm of your hand ..

In fact I was wondering why the saddle of the sixth string was the first to go into crisis, as it is certainly not the most used string, at least by me.. now it seems to me somewhat more logical


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#34 Metalchef

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 07:10 AM

I have always placed my echo fx after the amp and mixer block and it has always they have always had a great sound and I use the tape echo as the secret to my EVH tones. Usually set pretty close to default with mix and feedback adjusted just a smidgen. Only echo I never really use is the sweep echo and echo reverb.
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Yes I hear the cries of the carrots.... For it is harvest day and to them it is the Holocaust..... So I say let the rabbits wear glasses....

#35 perapera

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 08:56 AM

Thank you guys, I'm glad you liked it.. :)

 

 

Akeron you 're absolutely right .. I admit that I am not a completely normal person .. :rolleyes:
even though I promised not to do it again, I myself deleted my last thread on the use of a single input .. I deserve no mercy .. :angry:

sometimes I'm afraid to say wrong things , or to
not explain them in the best possible way, and that's why I remove some my posts .. to eventually return to talk about it in a better way later .. B)

in this case I experimented further and I think I finally came to the final maturity of my idea .. that basically confirms what I wrote in my previous
deleted thread,.... I believe that soon I'll reopen a thread on that topic, even more detailed .. because it is a topic that deserves to be treated well, and be known ..

in the old dead forum (which I prefer a thousand times than the current one), there was a pinned thread called "What every HD500 owner needs to know!" ( link here: http://line6.com/sup...ew/thread/74045
) which explained pretty much the same thing, it was very popular and read by thousands of people really happy to have finally discovered that very important but almost hidden little detail..

 

think that I myself was contrary to that solution, but lately I've changed my mind and I think no longer have doubts

 

I posted a new topic about the Input Settings "Phase Issue" and the choice between a single input active (e.g. guitar/variax) or both inputs active (guitar/guitar),

here it is:

http://line6.com/sup...-vs-both-inputs

 

 

and @ hurghanico:

 

sorbole, ma io credevo che eri sudamericano, chissà perchè?!?

anch'io sono italiano (di milano)

 

gran suono e assolo comunque :)


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#36 hurghanico

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 09:53 AM

I posted a new topic about the Input Settings "Phase Issue" and the choice between a single input active (e.g. guitar/variax) or both inputs active (guitar/guitar),

here it is:

http://line6.com/sup...-vs-both-inputs

 

 

and @ hurghanico:

 

sorbole, ma io credevo che eri sudamericano, chissà perchè?!?

anch'io sono italiano (di milano)

 

gran suono e assolo comunque :)

 

@ perapera:

 

e io che pensavo che tu invece fossi spagnolo.. ah ah..

io sono di origini per lo più pugliesi, ma vivo a Bologna fin da piccolo..

 

grazie per i complimenti..

 

riguardo alle tue ottime osservazioni riguardo alla questione degli inputs come sai la condivido appieno, l'uguaglianza del segnale in ingresso tra un path A isolato e un pre-spit path con input 2=same è innegabile, e sono d'accordo anche sul fatto che non ci siano problemi di fase con 2 inputs uguali..

 

quello che però potrei aggiungere è che ultimamente, utilizzando un solo input sto ottenendo dei suoni incredibili che prima non riuscivo ad ottenere.. ho provato anche a ri-utilizzare input2=same ma non ottengo assolutamente gli stessi risultati (a meno chè non faccia qualcosa per abbassare il livello iniziale), e non mi riferisco solo ai suoni puliti ma anche ai crunch e ai distorti.. il senso di definizione,  i bassi, i medi e gli alti, i timbri in generale sembrano molto più veritieri godibili e dinamici.. in una parola: un vero piacere..

 

costruire i suoni diventa più facile e veloce, e devi impazzire molto meno per trovare modi di correggere risposte in frequenza esagerate

 

che ti posso dire?.. sembra di avere un altro processore nuovo e aggiornato..

 

forse quell'avvertimento nel rettangolo a pag 54 del manuale avanzato, ha una ragione di esistere e dice qualcosa di cui tenere più seriamente conto..

 

so che a rigor di logica i conti non tornano, come sai io stesso mi sono battuto per ribadire che i settaggi di default dovrebbero rappresentare diciamo così il punto di riferimento per la risposta dei modelli, ma più vado avanti e più le orecchie mi dicono tutt'altro.. per lo meno per quanto riguarda la qualità dei suoni ottenibili..

 

chissà, forse alla Line6 qualcuno ha fatto un po di casino

 

Buon Natale!.. e alla prossima :)

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

EDIT: I didn't have the time to translate in english my reply to perapera due to a dinner I had with my family for Christmas Eve

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

english translation of the above post (in italian):

 

.. and here I thought you were Spanish instead .. ha ha ..

 

I am originally mostly from Puglia, but I live in Bologna since childhood ..

thanks for the compliments ..

 

regarding your excellent observations on the question of the inputs, as you know I fully agree, the equality of the input signal level between an isolated path A and a pre-split path with input 2=same is undeniable, and I agree also on the fact that there are no phase problems using 2 equal inputs ..

 

but what I might add is that lately, using only one input I'm getting some incredible sounds that before I could not get .. I also tried to re-use input2=same but I don't get absolutely the same results (unless I do something to turn down the initial level), and I'm not referring only to the clean sounds but also to the crunch and distorted .. the sense of definition, bass, midrange and treble, the timbres in general seem much more truthful, enjoyable and dynamic .. in a word: a real pleasure ..

 

building sounds becomes easier and faster, and I have much less time consuming problems to find ways to correct eventual exaggerated frequency responses..

 

what can I say? .. seems to have another new and updated modeler ..

 

perhaps that warning written in the rectangle on page 54 of the advanced manual has a reason to exist and says something to be taken more seriously into account ..

I know that logically does not add up, as you know I myself have written several times to say that the default settings should represent so to say the point of reference for the response of the models, but the more I go ahead, the more my ears tell me a different story ... at least as regards the quality of the sounds obtainable ..

 

who knows, maybe someone at Line6 did a bit of mess with those crazy routings

Merry Christmas!
.. see you soon


Edited by hurghanico, 24 December 2013 - 05:15 PM.

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#37 perapera

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:52 PM

scrivo in inglese x rispetto degli altri:

 

please hurghanico post these comments of yours into the thread I started about the input settings

 

and find the time to retry my testing patches

 

really a plexi with gain 100% and only one input active sounds so different from the same amp with two inputs and a little less gain?

one of my tests was based on the settings you describe in your soundcloud for smoke on the water

 

...one idea suddely comes to my mind: isn't it ALL ABOUT THE VARIAX?

maybe the variax with two inputs works differently than one

 

the replies to your post here:

http://line6.com/sup...s-the-question/

 

seem to go in the same direction!

 

can you try my patches with a normal guitar and then convert them for vaiax and try again with it?

that would be very appreciated!

 

ciao

buon natale!

Lorenzo


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#38 hurghanico

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 05:44 PM

please hurghanico post these comments of yours into the thread I started about the input settings

 

and find the time to retry my testing patches

 

Ok Lore, I'll do it and I'll let you know my results

 

really a plexi with gain 100% and only one input active sounds so different from the same amp with two inputs and a little less gain?

 

yes, for me it's different..

 

I have already observed this with other previous patches, including that of "smoke on the water"..

recently I have found a great patch for a Robben Ford type sound that I have not still posted here, I have tried several times to see if it was possible to achieve the same result with "input2 = same" and compensating with a different adjustment of the drive and the amp output volume, but there's nothing to do, I get that sound in the way I really like it only with a different input 2..

 

in a way I find that the drive is positional, potentially gives different timbre manipulations nuances (frequency responses, saturation, compression) depending on its exact position

eg if you have a signal and you set the drive at 50 you get a result

but if you halve that input signal and to compensate you set the drive at 70 you'll get a different result

 

(the given above drive values are just a mental approximation while I'm writing, I don't remember know now how they should be exactly to get the most similar results between the 2 scenarios,... maybe similar results but anyway significantly different)

 

can you try my patches with a normal guitar and then convert them for vaiax and try again with it?

that would be very appreciated!

 

I'll do it,.. stay tuned


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#39 hurghanico

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 07:21 PM

one of my tests was based on the settings you describe in your soundcloud for smoke on the water

 

ok, but must be said that my original patch is different and sounds different than yours, because I used 1 single input in pre..

 

can you try my patches with a normal guitar and then convert them for vaiax and try again with it?

that would be very appreciated!

 

I tried your patches with my Variax and my Blade and they confirm what I already believed and believe, ie there is a 6 dB difference between the 1-input-only approach and the both-inputs-the-same..

 

and the input level you get in path A separate is identical to the input level you get in pre-split when input 2=same..

 

 

that's an old story for me and very true..

 

but in spite of all these objective facts, the fact remains that I get some awesome sounds only with the 1-input-only approach


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#40 gckelloch

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 11:56 PM

hurgh, I don't know much about the way guitar amps are wired, but the results you get would indicate that the amp model gain does not adjust the input gain before the first preamp tube -- which is why older amps like Plexi's had hi and low input jacks to accommodate different PUPs.  I had an EL34-based one back in the 70's.  I prefer the richer smoother KT66 SL100 Plexi's for sure.  Some modern amps might have a gain knob to adjust the gain in the first preamp tube, but I think it's the exception more than the rule.  My guess is that with most, if not all, of the amp models, adjusting the level before the amp gain will affect the dynamics of the preamp -- and is key to shaping the attack character.  Driving each tube stage evenly should produce the smoothest attack, while driving the first stage harder should sound more aggressive.  I have found that to be true for other modelers. Again, I don't know if the amps are modeled in that way, but it sounds like that's what's going on.  You should be able to use the output of the last FX block before the amp to do that, and you'll generally have more "leeway" regarding driving the amp input if you set the HD500 inputs both to guitar.


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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: variax 700, hd500, strato, plexi, blackmore, input2=null, smoke on the water

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