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Convince Me To Buy A Jtv Model Over An Original Variax


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#81 silverhead

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 06:01 AM

Yes - you can do that as long as you have the Variax connected to the POD using a VDI cable.


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#82 clay-man

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 08:04 AM

I've noticed that they changed the pitch shifter a lot, at least it seems. It sounds a lot less high in timbre on the 12 string up-pitched strings. 

 

Seems like it might have a bit of formant preserving going on? Yes or no? 

I thought the original early variax firmware had a little bit of formant preserving, but it's very subtle compared to 2.0. Gives it a more natural sound.

 

If you don't know what formant/timbre preserving is:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=esF0d7JjbnA


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#83 oleus

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 01:13 PM

Musicians friend has the sunburst and red jtv69s on sale new for 899. Very tempting at that price point given they have a good return policy and it's not b-stock.
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#84 bob1474

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 03:19 AM

The older variax line has 2 "custom" settings on the model selector, where you can store, wait for it!! 10 custom settings!! (5 in each) So you can develop any guitar you want through workbench(tunings included) and save it to any of the 10 spots, thus letting you preserve the original sound in the "normal" banks, so you can put all your alt tuned models in the custom slots to be called up instantly. I believe the electronics in the 300 and 600 are the same(Identical), and the 500 and 700 are the same (I believe as the previous poster mentioned-on the latter the boards are shaped slightly different to accomodate the guitars internal structure. This is indicated when you do a firmware/software update/re-initialize. Monkey will use the 300-600 mode or the 500-700 mode. I believe the latter had a bit more processing and other goodies, but the madels are identical. Note: rolled back my JTV 69 to earliest version and can notice the difference in the acoustics especially. But then you lose the HD goodies in 2.0. Keep experimenting, I guess.


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#85 TheRealZap

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:04 AM

as far as the original variax goes...

you can overwrite ALL the positions on the knob  with whatever you want...

the best part and undocumented bonus... is that if you are using a pod with VDI

you can recall all the factory settings still... (they are still in there, just not accessible from the knob after you overwrite them)

 

 

 

The older variax line has 2 "custom" settings on the model selector, where you can store, wait for it!! 10 custom settings!! (5 in each) So you can develop any guitar you want through workbench(tunings included) and save it to any of the 10 spots, thus letting you preserve the original sound in the "normal" banks, so you can put all your alt tuned models in the custom slots to be called up instantly. I believe the electronics in the 300 and 600 are the same(Identical), and the 500 and 700 are the same (I believe as the previous poster mentioned-on the latter the boards are shaped slightly different to accomodate the guitars internal structure. This is indicated when you do a firmware/software update/re-initialize. Monkey will use the 300-600 mode or the 500-700 mode. I believe the latter had a bit more processing and other goodies, but the madels are identical. Note: rolled back my JTV 69 to earliest version and can notice the difference in the acoustics especially. But then you lose the HD goodies in 2.0. Keep experimenting, I guess.


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#86 clay-man

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:20 AM

Yes, you can replace any position in the model selector knob. 80% of my model knob is all custom guitars/repositions of models because I have a lot of tunings and guitars I've made.

 

For me...

 

Custom 1: D standard Telecaster for Thrice songs(1,3,5), Drop D SG (2,4)

T-Model: Default except 2 & 4 are 1 & 5 with LP humbuckers

Spank: Default

Lester: Default LP except 2 & 4 is my custom SG models (brighter, takes off a bit of the excess low end on the LP)

Special: My Jaguar models, based off an actual Jaguar, still a WIP. 1 & 5 E standard bridge and neck, 2 & 4 Baritone, 3 Drop A

R-Billy: Smashing Pumpkins presets. 1 & 5 is E flat Strat, 2 3 4 is Drop D Strat

Chime: In Flames presets. 1 & 3 C standard Les Paul, 2 & 4 Drop A# Les Paul, 5 Baritone humbucker strat bridge for Soilwork songs.

Semi: Rickenbacker relocated to this knob. 1 3 5 is a 360, 2 & 4 is a 360 with an octave up tuning for fun stuff/Radiohead

Jazzbox: Rickenbacker 12 string, Sitar, and ES-335. 1 & 5 are 12 string ricks, 2 & 4 is the ES-335, 3 is a sitar

Acoustic: Default except 4 is a Jumbo and 5 is an Dread tuned down an octave, giving it a doublebass acoustic jazz sound.

Reso: 1 & 5 is a Jazzmaster (wip) 2 & 4 is a ES-175, 3 is a banjo

Custom 2: "Thrice SG" 1 & 3 are D standard SGs, 2 & 4 are drop C, 5 is a bass guitar patch

 

 

I even printed out a custom knob label on mine. Of course, if you had a JTV, you'd be covering up the LED on your knob if you did this.


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#87 bob1474

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:46 AM

Knew you could overwrite ALL, just trying a simple explaination. Did not know however, about retention of the original factory sounds and ability to access through POD. How does one do that ? any special codes needed ? or other tweeks?  thanks


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#88 silverhead

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 07:58 AM

You access the factory models in the Pod Edit program (the mixer panel). They are saved with the preset and recalled in the Variax when the preset is selected.


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#89 TheRealZap

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:00 AM

gearbox show u models and f models (user and factory) when using the xt/x3


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#90 bob1474

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:41 AM

Call me stupid-.using HD500  Are you saying any "forced" settings in a patch going to the Variax in the HD500 will call up the factory settings for that model, say spank 1, even if i have altered spank 1 through workbench and saved it on the Variax?


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#91 oleus

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 08:52 AM

Call me stupid-.using HD500  Are you saying any "forced" settings in a patch going to the Variax in the HD500 will call up the factory settings for that model, say spank 1, even if i have altered spank 1 through workbench and saved it on the Variax?

 

i'm also getting confused here.  

 

do the JTV's not have two custom bank/knobs where any kind of modeling patch/variation can be stored?  i'm getting murky as to the differences being discussed now between the JTV's and older variaxes with these custom/modification banks.


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#92 TheRealZap

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:16 AM

assuming its a non JTV or a JTV with version 1.7 or older firmware...

allows you the option of choosing the unaltered factory model, or the one you modified.

 

 

Call me stupid-.using HD500  Are you saying any "forced" settings in a patch going to the Variax in the HD500 will call up the factory settings for that model, say spank 1, even if i have altered spank 1 through workbench and saved it on the Variax?


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#93 TheRealZap

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:18 AM

the JTV with more current firmware does not have this option...

in my opinion it's less useful to the JTV's anyway since you can select the tuning independently... whereas the original variax the tuning was part of the model.

 

 
and yes, at either end of the model knob is a custom 1 or custom 2
for both generations of variaxes...
essentially there were no new models in those positions... factory i think it just had some duplicates and alt tuned models...
the JTV-89's may have the high gain models (models of its own pickups) in the custom 1 position...
 
but thats really just what the knob says... as all banks and models can be custom.
 

i'm also getting confused here.  

 

do the JTV's not have two custom bank/knobs where any kind of modeling patch/variation can be stored?  i'm getting murky as to the differences being discussed now between the JTV's and older variaxes with these custom/modification banks.


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#94 bob1474

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:20 AM

The JTV's have 2 custom banks, as do the older variax line. same thing- you can save any model anywhere on any of the banks, just 10 handy banks to store mdofied models if you didi not want to modify the existing banks. My question nw relates to calling up those banks (factory and modified) from podhd500.


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#95 TheRealZap

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:32 AM

I no longer have my original variax to test this, but if HD500/500x/pro/prox edit is anything like gearbox, you should have u models and f models listed in the force model dialogue (f=factory/unmodified, u=user)

 

The JTV's have 2 custom banks, as do the older variax line. same thing- you can save any model anywhere on any of the banks, just 10 handy banks to store mdofied models if you didi not want to modify the existing banks. My question nw relates to calling up those banks (factory and modified) from podhd500.


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#96 silverhead

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:43 AM

Here's a weird thing: just yesterday I was using my JTV-59 connected to my Pod HD Pro, and running POD HD Pro Edit. All firnware is up to date. In HD Pro Edit I was able to see and assign models from two full sets of Model Banks in the Variax - a total of 120 visible models in the 10 named banks and the 2 Custom banks of each set. One set had the u- prefix. The other set had no prefix; I assume these referred to the factory installed models. I did not pay particular attention to it at the time, other than to note it, and I did not do any testing to see if I actually had access to a specific factory installed model that I had since overwritten, but the potential certainly seemed to be there.

 

As I said, I wasn't paying much attention. It is possible that, although I had my JTV connected, in HD Edit perhaps I had an older Variax guitar selected in the HD Edit panel as the source instrument. This, in turn, might have opened up the two-sets of models possibility.

 

Is anyone able to reproduce this?


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#97 TheRealZap

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:50 AM

just a note... the factory model options were removed from the JTV's when the HD acoustics were added, so there would be no difference in a factory or user model with a firmware that has the updated acoustic models.

if you stayed on an earlier version for the older acoustics... you should still have the option in your JTV if you wanted it....


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#98 oleus

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:41 PM

You'll have to excuse my additional questions but I am more confused now the longer the thread gets. Let me ask two questions that have probably already been answered but there is a lot of info being discussed :

Assuming I get a Jtv and use the newest 2.0 firmware, can I :

1) Use the two custom banks on the guitar for whatever crazy settings/models I want, for easy access on both the guitar and with the hd500.

2) change settings on the main banks (like pickup placement using workbench) and save them, but still have access to the original models ?

Thanks in advance for your patience with my ongoing questions / clarifications
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#99 TheRealZap

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:02 PM

1. yes

2. no (only with lesser firmwares or original variax)

 

You'll have to excuse my additional questions but I am more confused now the longer the thread gets. Let me ask two questions that have probably already been answered but there is a lot of info being discussed :

Assuming I get a Jtv and use the newest 2.0 firmware, can I :

1) Use the two custom banks on the guitar for whatever crazy settings/models I want, for easy access on both the guitar and with the hd500.

2) change settings on the main banks (like pickup placement using workbench) and save them, but still have access to the original models ?

Thanks in advance for your patience with my ongoing questions / clarifications


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#100 oleus

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:14 PM

1. yes
2. no (only with lesser firmwares or original variax)

So, is the new variax workbench still for editing custom patches, to be saved/used in the empty custom banks on the guitar (or stored on an hd500)?

Can u still do things like move pickups around in the new workbench software (for a custom model, now that I understand that the main models can't be altered with firmware 2.0)
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#101 TheRealZap

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 01:17 PM

the new variax workbench AKA (workbench HD) is used for editing custom patches and saving to the variax.

you can change any of the models to whatever you want... the custom slots are there so that you can keep the factory models.

anything you change on the non-custom slots you will lose a factory model... maybe you never use the banjos' etc so you can use the slot for something else...

all saved to the guitar....

the hd500 can be used to recall a saved preset (it will not store any variax presets)


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#102 XCrossroadsX2000

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 03:14 PM

Sweetwater had a sales on new JTV 89s in black a couple of months back for  $699. They currently have a 69 new for $899. I've had a JTV 69 for 2 years now, and can only say the Strat, the Tele and the LP sit in their cases. I do a lot of open G stuff and my Tele is tuned for that. The ability to change tunings and models on the fly is awesome. The ability to store the guitar settings in my HD500 and change guitar model, tuning and amp model in my DT25 by stomping a switch is worth any of the minor issues I have had with the JTV.


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#103 johnnyayyy

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 06:32 PM

Sweetwater had a sales on new JTV 89s in black a couple of months back for  $699. They currently have a 69 new for $899. I've had a JTV 69 for 2 years now, and can only say the Strat, the Tele and the LP sit in their cases. I do a lot of open G stuff and my Tele is tuned for that. The ability to change tunings and models on the fly is awesome. The ability to store the guitar settings in my HD500 and change guitar model, tuning and amp model in my DT25 by stomping a switch is worth any of the minor issues I have had with the JTV.

 

I think if someone is buying a new JTV the 69 model is the safest bet - tons of options for replacing the neck if needed and fewer flaws in the bridge design.


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#104 ColonelForbin

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:39 AM

Yeah, I am in the same basic situation, but 2014 has brought with a few feet of snow, a serious case of G.A.S... As in, the new DT25 arrives tomorrow!

 

On that note, if you are struggling with figuring out how to pay for this stuff, places like Zzounds, etc have these "installment" plans, where you get the gear after making first payment, then do 7 more payments every thirty days. Free shipping, no tax. So, the 1x12 DT25 combo is $125/month for 8 months. The JTV59 tobacco sunburst (around $1,500) is 8 payments of somewhere around $160 to $180 I think?

 

For that, I have thus far resisted the urge - gotta learn the amp+HD500 connect first, but definitely going to hit guitar centre and put my hands on one they have in store, the cherry sunburst JTV59.

 

It's definitely less $ in store, and I don't think the online guys do price matching when you are doing installments, not sure on that.. American Musical and Sweetwater also offer similar payment plans.

 

I have never played a Variax, never not once, so for me there is no pre-existing condition or expectation of what it's supposed to sound like; which I'll take as a good thing. For instance, I've heard people struggling with the newer "HD" Variax models doing things they don't like, and choosing to roll back to previous firmware. I suppose that's the issue with software / DSP driven tone, where you like the old model, they do something new, and it now no longer sounds good with settings and patches you invested serious time tweaking and adjusting. Such it is, I suppose!

 

I will report back after I get my hands on an actual JTV59. I am going to haul my HD500 to Guitar Center, plug the JTV59-CS into a DT25, and see what happens.


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#105 oleus

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 10:23 AM

original topic poster here -

 

i have a black JTV69 being delivered today from ZZSounds.   I'll report my impressions by tomorrow.  Hoping there aren't any serious flaws, these things sound like a crapshoot!


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#106 johnnyayyy

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:08 AM

original topic poster here -

 

i have a black JTV69 being delivered today from ZZSounds.   I'll report my impressions by tomorrow.  Hoping there aren't any serious flaws, these things sound like a crapshoot!

 

 

Yes, a crapshoot describes it perfectly.

 

Also, I believe certain flaws in the JTV's design and craftmanship might never be noticed by certain players - someone who is more of a chord strummer might never notice the fret edge/pull off problem, and if you never finger or Travis pick you would probably never notice the clacking noises coming from the piezo saddles. Also, the less palm muting a player does the more likely they are to be pleased with the JTV's modeling.

 

I hope you luck out and get a good one, the 69 model seems to be the safest choice so I think you have a good shot at being satisfied with the guitar.


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#107 oleus

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:14 AM

Yes, a crapshoot describes it perfectly.

 

Also, I believe certain flaws in the JTV's design and craftmanship might never be noticed by certain players - someone who is more of a chord strummer might never notice the fret edge/pull off problem, and if you never finger or Travis pick you would probably never notice the clacking noises coming from the piezo saddles. Also, the less palm muting a player does the more likely they are to be pleased with the JTV's modeling.

 

I hope you luck out and get a good one, the 69 model seems to be the safest choice so I think you have a good shot at being satisfied with the guitar.

I remember the palm muting being quite different than a regular guitar when i had a variax 500, so that won't come as a huge shock to me.

 

if i notice fret edge/pulloff/saddle problems, it's going back.   paid too much for it to have those kind of flaws.

 

PS - i really wanted the lake placid blue model since i already have an all black guitar, but couldn't justify paying $300+ more on it just for that, plus the black looks sharp.   


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#108 clay-man

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 12:16 PM

I think the palm muting sounds just fine even in the old Variax. The only problem I had with palm muting is on the LP model in standard tuning. It has way too much low end overtones in the palm muting.

 

I made an SG model which is a bit of a brighter/crunchier LP and the palm mutes sound fantastic.

 

LP sounds fine if you alt tune it down though.

 

also, palm muting higher up the strings makes it mute stronger, giving it a more desirable palm mute.


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#109 oleus

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:44 PM

Well, I struck out on my first try at this crapshoot.

After unboxing everything I immediately noticed that the tone knob was bent at a 45 degree angle. It can turn all the way around but it's completely bent. I tried jostling it a bit , no luck.

So the lengthy return process to zz sounds is under way , I'll give it one more shot with a replacement but so far this doesn't bode well for the variax qc. I doubt it was damaged in shipment.

There was also some glue on the guitar I had to peel off.
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#110 arislaf

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 05:09 PM

Welcome to the club.....;..


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#111 oleus

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 05:23 PM

Welcome to the club.....;..


Yeah, I'm tempted to ask for a refund instead of a return, but I opted for the installment plan for this very reason , so I'm only out $89 while going through the return process. It's a pretty glaring qc failure though , the knob wasn't bent a little, it was bent at a 45 degree angle ! And the double box was secure, no way it happened in transit IMHO.

Obviously I've been looking forward to getting one of these since I started this thread. And it wasn't even one of the common problems. A completely mangled tone knob ? C'mon line 6.
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#112 radatats

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 06:11 PM

I just got my first run through with the models on my red 69 from Sweetwater.  I have to say very happy so far.  It came with 1.9 so I played around with that first and then upped to 2.0.  So far so good but can't say its a complete evaluation by any means.  Tomorrow I will try the acoustic models.

 

My 69 came with no noted problems so far.  It looks gorgeous, really a great red.  Plays well with no issues.  However, as with all strat styles the volume knob is in an awkward spot for me.  I will have to relearn hand position as I am constantly turning it down as I play.  I may have to try that feature where you can lock the knobs in the 500.

 

As nice as the ZZounds payment plans are Sweetwater gave me a $2k card and 2 yrs same as cash so that was a no brainer.  First time with them, I used ZZounds for my 500 and DT.


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#113 arislaf

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:25 PM

Yeah, I'm tempted to ask for a refund instead of a return, but I opted for the installment plan for this very reason , so I'm only out $89 while going through the return process. It's a pretty glaring qc failure though , the knob wasn't bent a little, it was bent at a 45 degree angle ! And the double box was secure, no way it happened in transit IMHO.

Obviously I've been looking forward to getting one of these since I started this thread. And it wasn't even one of the common problems. A completely mangled tone knob ? C'mon line 6.

Yeah, on another thread also I had a conversation about how far line6 drop the quality control.Unfortunately on this one, they are unreliable the last years.


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#114 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 06:30 AM

Not fair to blame Line6 on that kind of damage.  That happened after it left the factory.  That is the unfortunate reality with mail order.  I trust Sweetwater to check out the guitars.  They even take a bunch of pictures of the actual guitar and post them so you can look for any obvious things you don't like about it.  When I bought my 69S it was right after 2.0 came out and they upgraded it and tested it for me.  I have not had a single problem with it.


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#115 radatats

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 08:42 AM

Not fair to blame Line6 on that kind of damage.  That happened after it left the factory.  That is the unfortunate reality with mail order.  I trust Sweetwater to check out the guitars.  They even take a bunch of pictures of the actual guitar and post them so you can look for any obvious things you don't like about it.  When I bought my 69S it was right after 2.0 came out and they upgraded it and tested it for me.  I have not had a single problem with it.

 

Agreed on Sweetwater's great service.  However, I was surprised to find my 69 still had 1.9 installed as I was also under the impression they would load the latest firmware and test it.  Still, no problems noted...


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#116 phil_m

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 08:47 AM

Not fair to blame Line6 on that kind of damage.  That happened after it left the factory.  That is the unfortunate reality with mail order.  I trust Sweetwater to check out the guitars.  They even take a bunch of pictures of the actual guitar and post them so you can look for any obvious things you don't like about it.  When I bought my 69S it was right after 2.0 came out and they upgraded it and tested it for me.  I have not had a single problem with it.

 

I was going to say the same thing... There's a lot Line 6 can be blamed for, but I can't see how a bent shaft like that could be anything but shipping or handling damage. Most online retailers never even open the boxes before they ship these guitars, so unfortunately these sorts of things happen.


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#117 oleus

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 11:06 AM

that may be true, but i doubt the globs of glue on the finish (that looked a lot like chips at first) happened because of handling damage.


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#118 arislaf

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 11:30 AM

that may be true, but i doubt the globs of glue on the finish (that looked a lot like chips at first) happened because of handling damage.

Hate to say it, but you was prepared about the quality, me, joahnyay and frozenozone told you.....


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#119 oleus

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 11:41 AM

Hate to say it, but you was prepared about the quality, me, joahnyay and frozenozone told you.....

 

well i'll give it one more shot.  after that, it's ebay for a 700


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#120 arislaf

arislaf

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 11:43 AM

Hope this time will work for you.


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