Jump to content


Photo

2/3 Of The Way There - Need Advice

jtv hd500x

  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1193 posts

Posted 28 December 2013 - 08:37 AM

OK I now have 2/3 of the Dream Rig.  JTV69S and HD500X.  I play at home both acoustic sounds and classic rock stuff.  I am trying to decide what to get for a full range output device that will sound good with Acoustic guitars and Electrics.  I do not play out now so I do not need to fill a hall just a room.  I think I want a powered PA speaker but I have no experience with any.  My amp collection is all tube amps that I have built over the years and none are full range.  The only amp I have with me now is a Tweed Deluxe which sounds great for some stuff but not with acoustic guitar.  Any recommendations for a decent powered full range speaker?  I also am considering studio monitors but I am afraid that they are too directional for my needs.  The rig sounds great through my good quality headphones but I don't want to play wearing headphones all the time.  Let's hear some ideas!


  • 0

#2 edstar1960

edstar1960

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1234 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:09 AM

There are plenty of full range powered speakers out there. You can spend a little or a huge amount, depending on whether you go for budget or top end. Many people on these forums have raved about the stagesource speakers, so if your budget allows I would suggest you try the L2m which is the cheapest and smallest of the Line6 options. If you want something cheaper, then try the Behringer B210d or B212d. There are plenty of other options as well.
  • 0

#3 RIblues

RIblues

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 202 posts
  • LocationRhode Island

Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:13 AM

I went through the same decision process recently when I purchased the HD500, as I just play at home now as well. One thing to take into consideration is whether or not a stereo signal is of any importance to you. With monitors, that would not be an issue of course, where as a single PA or full range unit it would be. Unless of course I misunderstand how to properly set that up. 

 

I chose studio monitors after trying two tube amps and a powered speaker, to me it was not even close. The HD500 through studio monitors at home is stellar where, through the tube amps, it was hit or miss. As far as directionality with the studio monitors, I have not found that to be an issue. 

 

Ideally, If you could, try out different setups in your home and then choose. I know that's not always a possible.


  • 0

#4 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1193 posts

Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:49 AM

Rlblues,  What monitors did you go with?  I may be leaning that way too because stereo would be nice to have.  I am not considering the Line6 stuff as of now.  More than I need and more $$ than I want to spend.


  • 0

#5 RIblues

RIblues

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 202 posts
  • LocationRhode Island

Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:00 AM

I chose the Rokit 6 Gen 3 after trying them and several others at Guitar Center. Also, my setup breaks all of the rules of studio monitor placement. I don't record or do any "critical" listening, I just wanted the best setup for the HD500 at home for my enjoyment. With that said, I have the Rokit's on Auralex pads, angling up, on the floor to the left and right of my Hd500 in a spare room which is hardwood.

 

When I explained to the folks at Guitar Center what my plan was, they recommended monitors with front ports which they felt would best emulate a guitar amp on the floor in that room. They even set them up that way at Guitar Center so that we could try them. We got a lot of frowns from the people around us as we were doing it, but the frowns changed to smiles when we started playing.

 

The last advice that they gave me was 6 inch over the 5 inch because of the cabinet size which did sound different to me because both were available for try out. Also, the freq response of the 6 inch is really good which would enable to play with the bass and get great sound.

 

I hope this helps, it's unorthodox and I am sure some will frown, but it sounds fantastic to me especially with the feeling in the floor that resembles what my amps do when I play through them.


  • 0

#6 silverhead

silverhead

    Uber Guru

  • Line 6 Expert
  • 11507 posts
  • LocationOttawa, Ontario, Canada

Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:02 PM

...

The last advice that they gave me was 6 inch over the 5 inch because of the cabinet size which did sound different to me because both were available for try out. Also, the freq response of the 6 inch is really good which would enable to play with the bass and get great sound....

I strongly agree. I went with 5" studio monitors and regretted it; I wouldn't go less than 6" again. I had to repair one of the 5" monitors after blowing it with some bass guitar.

 

I still use the 5" studio monitors for home studio work but no longer as performance monitors, even for practice.


  • 0

Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.
.... John Lennon

 

 


#7 DeanDinosaur

DeanDinosaur

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 733 posts

Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:37 PM

Since you're not considering the line 6 speakers, my advice is to get a Keyboard amp. What many don't realize is that all keyboard amps are designed to be FRFR (their level of success at that is no different than those who market their powered speakers as FRFR). They're usually very rugged and very hard to blow the large speakers if you go with anything with .10' to 15" (and tweeters).  The beauty of this setup is: it's  a portable PA, you can have Electric guitar, drums, bass, acoustic , vocals etc. They're also expandable if you should ever need to expand;  If the amp has stereo link than you can get another one and it will be true stereo. Anything from Roland usually will last you a life time. 


  • 2

#8 hurghanico

hurghanico

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1397 posts

Posted 28 December 2013 - 01:04 PM

Since you're not considering the line 6 speakers, my advice is to get a Keyboard amp. What many don't realize is that all keyboard amps are designed to be FRFR (their level of success at that is no different than those who market their powered speakers as FRFR). They're usually very rugged and very hard to blow the large speakers if you go with anything with .10' to 15" (and tweeters).  The beauty of this setup is: it's  a portable PA, you can have Electric guitar, drums, bass, acoustic , vocals etc. They're also expandable if you should ever need to expand;  If the amp has stereo link than you can get another one and it will be true stereo. Anything from Roland usually will last you a life time. 

 

True!

 

keyboard amps are FRFR, robust and flexible ..
a Roland keyboard amp with a 12" speaker
and tweeters works good for me, and it's my current solution


  • 0

#9 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1193 posts

Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:03 PM

I had not considered a Keyboard Amp.  What does this have to offer over a powered PA Speaker? 


  • 0

#10 hurghanico

hurghanico

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1397 posts

Posted 29 December 2013 - 03:43 AM

I had not considered a Keyboard Amp.  What does this have to offer over a powered PA Speaker? 

 

I believe that generally they are more robust than powered PA speakers, often they have a little mixer incorporated with several channel inputs, they have a more classic look similar to a combo guitar amp..


  • 1

#11 Rewolf48

Rewolf48

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 402 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 29 December 2013 - 03:45 AM

Keyboard Amp v PA Speaker:

 

It looks like a backline amp rather than a PA speaker.  

 

It may have better EQ options: some PA Speakers have none expecting to be done at the mixer - except that direct from HD 500 there is no global EQ, others with a built-in mixer may be better and the L2t has some very smart stuff on it so it can be in simulated guitar amp mode (limits tweater) for electric or switched by HD500 patch to full range for acoustic.


  • 0

#12 jcosta_sr

jcosta_sr

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 179 posts
  • LocationBay Area

Posted 29 December 2013 - 10:44 AM

A lot of people use the QSC monitors. Anyone considering the QSC should look at the L2m/L2t. I finally completed the dream rig with a L2t and I am in love. Using the JTV -69 and HD500, I can play an unbelievably accurate 12 string acoustic playing into a rotary speaker(Hotel California), then switch to a screaming solo.

If you believe in FRFR you have to take a look at the L2 series.
  • 0

#13 DeanDinosaur

DeanDinosaur

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 733 posts

Posted 29 December 2013 - 04:37 PM

Keep in mind when you're looking at specs to compare the power rating as this is where most manufacturers aren't upfront about the power capabilities of the their amps. Most important is RMS (amp) / or continuous which corresponds with continuous power rating of the speaker so if you know either one the other is the the same. Peak is usually 4 times that. Most manufacturers list peak power :rolleyes: ;  so try guessing what line 6 rating for the L2 listed at 800 watts is, is it  Peak or RMS?  Ok you guessed right it's 800 Peak which means it's in the neighborhood of 200 Watts RMS. I would confirm that with line 6 because it can still be lower or slightly higher, they did the testing and they should know.

 

Peak power is used by some manufacturers in an attempt to "look better" in print and has very little bearing on the actual performance of an amplifier if any. 

So be prepared to look at the user manuals before you make a purchase if you want to make an informed decision. It's a pain in the lollipop I know, but I do it because some manufacturers always try to be cute and they don't realize how annoying it is when they're not telling the truth. 


  • 0

#14 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1193 posts

Posted 29 December 2013 - 05:54 PM

Not surprising.  How many 10 inch speakers do you know of that can take 800W RMS??  (OK the tweeter takes some of the power too) 

I do not need huge volume for my application.   I want very good acoustic sound - which I cannot get from my small tube amp with single 12 inch speaker.  My music room is not that big.  Any powered PA speaker will have plenty of power for my needs.  So would a set of studio monitors but I am worried about the narrow field with these.  I want to be able to play 6 feet or so away from the speaker(s).

   I am still undecided and I plan to take my time on this decision since I can make music with what I have in the mean time.

 

Thanks for the advice so far!


  • 0

#15 RIblues

RIblues

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 202 posts
  • LocationRhode Island

Posted 29 December 2013 - 06:53 PM

 I am worried about the narrow field 

I haven't noticed this at all. When everyone is home I play at a low volume and when I have the house to myself I let it rip. I know there are guidelines and some rules to monitor placement and positioning, but that is for recording and critical reviewing. If your near a Guitar Center or similar store, try out the monitors as well as a keyboard amp as suggested.

 

The Guitar Center I went too was very helpful, they never suggested a keyboard amp, but they did let me play the pod through a powered speaker and a PA module. Strange now that I think back, they never mentioned the StageSource speakers. I am guessing that maybe they felt that was overkill for just playing at home or maybe the because a single StageSource was $700 and a pair of Rokit's were $380.00.


  • 0

#16 DeanDinosaur

DeanDinosaur

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 733 posts

Posted 29 December 2013 - 08:12 PM

For home use I've been using a pair of  Yamaha HS50m. No issue with near field or losing the sweet spot when playing guitar at all. The music room isn't that big and playing 6 feet away from the speakers they still sound good. I originally set them up for mixing at an angle toward the ears making an equilateral triangle. I thought I would have to change the positioning to play at 6 feet away or any other spot in the room but was never an issue. What I like most about them is that they are very transparent and they virtually have no added coloration or sweetness to the bass or high frequencies. Some might find them harsh but if that's the case they have adjustments to low, mid and highs to roll off either of these frequencies.

 

They can be very loud. At 50 percent is the loudest that I keep them. Their power rating is 70 Dynamic Power, yet another term that i believe is unique to Yamaha on how they interpret it. In short it's alsoan  exaggerated measure in comparison with RMS. Two of them make 140 watts of dynamic power, I figure even if RMS is half of that , that's loud enough.  The reason I went with Yamaha over Rootkit, is that Rootkit exaggerates the bass siginficantly, I was looking for accurate verses sweet. I'm quite happy with them. I listen to various music on them and it's amazing how many major albums sound harsh and poorly mixed, but the ones that are mixed properly sound stunning with amazing details; you can almost visualize the performers in the room with you. O Well,  Yamaha owns line 6 now, so it feels better recommending a Yamaha product on  line 6 forum than another company, but that has been my honest experience and they came with three years warranty on labor and parts.


  • 0

#17 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1193 posts

Posted 30 December 2013 - 06:18 AM

I think I am leaning toward getting a set of monitors for my application.  I can get two for the price of one good PA speaker and have stereo.  I will give it some more thought before I decide what to do.  Meanwhile I am still experimenting with the Pod using my headphones for full range sound and my amp as well.  I don't really like playing with headphones on for very long though.


  • 0

#18 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1193 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 12:27 PM

I am going to try an experiment with my home Stereo to see how that sounds.  I have to get some 1/4 to RCA adapters to try it.  If it sounds anywhere near as good as my headphones that may do the trick for my home playing at least in the short term.  I am still torn between Monitors and a Powered PA speaker for a purchase.


  • 0

#19 radatats

radatats

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1035 posts
  • LocationOrange County, NY

Posted 31 December 2013 - 12:48 PM

I would be very careful with that... I have seen folks blow up their stereo speakers trying to play guitar through them... Just saying...


  • 0

Picture4.png


#20 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1193 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 01:17 PM

I will be careful. 


  • 0

#21 DeanDinosaur

DeanDinosaur

    Gear Head

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 733 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 01:25 PM

Home stereo should be a good solution for playing at home, it isn't that much different from most FRFR out there.


  • 0

#22 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1193 posts

Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:14 PM

I will see how it sounds...  It may be good enough for playing in my small room and if it isn't  I can revisit my options.


  • 0

#23 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1193 posts

Posted 06 January 2014 - 06:23 AM

Update:  I decided to go for the EV ZLX-12P for my powered full range speaker.  I got it Saturday.  The Acoustic sound is killer!  I need to play with a bunch of things to dial in the sounds I want but I really like what I am hearing with my JTV 69S.  I used the XLR for the connection but I am thinking that I should probably connect both the Left and Right XLR.  I know that plugging a 1/4 inch into the 1/4 outs gets Mono both channels but I don't think that happens with the XLR outputs.  I know I could mod the patches to pan everything one way but I think I can accomplish the same thing by plugging in two XLR cables since the speaker has two XLR inputs.  Anybody have any opinions on this?  For now I am really having fun figuring out how to tweak my patches to sound the way I want them.


  • 0

#24 jcosta_sr

jcosta_sr

    Iknowathingortwo

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 179 posts
  • LocationBay Area

Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:43 AM

The problem with monitor speakers is they are not a live playing solution, take that in mind.  If you feel you will never play live then studio monitors would be the best solution.


  • 0

#25 Charlie_Watt

Charlie_Watt

    Power User

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1193 posts

Posted 06 January 2014 - 10:52 AM

Read the above.  I did not go with Studeo Monitors.  I went with a PA Speaker.


  • 0





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: jtv, hd500x

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users