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A Tiny Little Ground-breaking Feature ...


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#1 wolbai

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 07:01 AM

... I have overseen which came along with the new POD HD firmware 2.20 in November:

 

 

POD HD 500 Master volume control in relation with L6 link.

 

 

And today I had some time to check it out at the rehearsal room with my DT50 Head and the POD HD 500.

 

Although there is already a Thread in the POD HD forum I thought it is worth to place my feedback here, because a lot of non-DT25/50 consider this new firmware as worthless.

 

But this is a totally different story for the DT25/50 user which are using this equipment for live performance / professional usage IMO.

 

And I think this tiny little feature is ground-breaking!

 

One of my biggest challenges on the DT50 in the past was to manage the bloody high volume amount which comes along when turning the DT25/50 master volume in the area of 50% and above.

 

Unfortunately this was the only option in the past to push the power section for tube saturation of some amps like the Marshall Super Lead Plexi, Park-75, which I am using quite frequently. Pretty the same way as the original amps expecting to make them shine.

 

I therefore have started 1 1/2 years ago using (several) power attenuators to run my DT25/50 in master volume level on approx. 70% to benefit from power section tube distortion.

 

But approx. 6 months ago I stopped using a power attenuator, because all of them I have used (also a RIVERA Rock Crusher) where not able to deal with effects like delays, reverbs and some mod effects in a proper way IMO.

 

So I completely changed my presets by lowering the DT25/50 master volume to approx. 25% without using a power attenuator anymore. I have compensated the loss in distortion / tube saturation of the power section by intensive usage of dist pedals and tube compressor. All in all this was somehow a bit of a compromise in tone.

 

As of today I am aware the master volume control in the POD HD 500 is a mighty feature. And it is not only just another way to control volume. It is THE way IMO:

 

I have raised the DT25/50 master volume back to old position (when used with a power attenuator) to approx. 70%. And I have reduced the overall volume with the master volume on the POD HD by reducing from max to approx. 45%.

 

The outcomes:

 

- pretty much more headroom for clean tones; my existing clean tones had some kind of distortion level due to the low Dt25/50 master volume setting (not really surprising).
 

- the tones on distorted sounds with amps like, Marshall Plexi Lead, JCM800, Soldano are (again) stellar.
 

- The overall tone seems not to suffer by lowering the POD HD output as the input level for the DT25/50 IMO.
 

- No need for LVM mode or a power attenuators IMO any more to manage high volume.

 

 

As a consequence of the new POD HD firmware 2.20 I need to rework my presets by reducing the usage of distortion pedals, tube compressor pretty much in the same way I had my presets when using a power attenuator. A lot of distortion I need can be done now again just with the amp-Equing.

 

The weird thing to me is that this mighty feature is available somewhere pretty late in the life cycle of the Dt25/50 amps (DT50s are no longer available in bigger Online stores like THOMANN).

 

Anyhow: one of the BEST features which came along with a POD HD firmware releases in the last 2 years IMO for L6 link device users and a very welcome year end gift from Line6 !!!


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____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

THE RETROMANIAC

Gear: JTV 59, JTV 69, JTV 89F, Godin Progression, Godin Seagull, Gibson Les Paul Deluxe, POD/HD500, DT50/212, DT50/Head, Marshall JVMC212, RIVERA Rockcrusher, Radial JDX Reactor
website: http://www.soundclick.com/wolbai  Band: http://www.jump-backtorock.de/


#2 Brazzy

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 07:16 AM

I was in the market for an attenuator but changed my mind when this update was released. I have way more control since the "HD 500 Master Volume L6 Link Control" addition. So I'm right there with Ya! Nice Post BTW.


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I mostly play at home and my own music which is more of a bluesy Jazzy Rock mixture as I'm still learning how to play guitar so when I post a reply to try and help give ideas you know where I'm coming from. In a nutshell I'm always learning and having fun doing it. Rock-On!! Oh, and if I don't respond promptly I'm probably playing guitar or my computer locked up from multitasking 'cause I'm using Gear Box, HD500 Edit, Audacity and tab filled browsers all at the same time, Hahahaaaa. Surprisingly enough my 'puter handles the load more times than not.
 

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#3 radatats

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 09:22 AM

Aboslutely agree... DT master UP, POD master to control volume, channel volume to level patches.  Increased headroom and power amp sweetness...  Made all the difference for me.


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#4 Metalchef

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 05:30 PM

Ditto
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#5 Metalchef

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 05:32 PM

If I might add since the volume fix the Divided by 13 model is one of my favorites now.
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Yes I hear the cries of the carrots.... For it is harvest day and to them it is the Holocaust..... So I say let the rabbits wear glasses....

#6 boyce89976

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 08:08 PM

Agreed!  I set my master on the DT up around 75-90%.  Used the PHD Motorway to build a couple of patches for the first time today, using a pretty healthy volume (about what it would be set at in the amp closet at church), and the sustain/creamy overdrive was simply marvelous.  It was so creamy, lead lines sounded clean, and just rang out forever.  


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#7 innovine

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 02:28 AM

According to this thread: http://line6.com/sup...ume/#entry28015
Its not possible to get power amp distortion by lowering the input and cranking the dt master, which seems to me to be exactly whats claimed in this thread. Someone please ennlighten me.
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#8 radatats

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 03:55 AM

Before the upgrade we couldn't turn the DT master up at all because the POD master was fixed full up.  Now we can turn the DT master up and turn the POD master down to compensate.  As my post in the thread you reference fully explains, that allows the power section to breath with more current to the tubes and while you don't really get the full flavor of power amp distortion kicking in until both masters are up pretty high you certainly get a different tone and feel from when the POD was full up and the DT low.  It just gets better as you turn it up!


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#9 Brazzy

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 06:29 AM

Before the upgrade we couldn't turn the DT master up at all because the POD master was fixed full up.  Now we can turn the DT master up and turn the POD master down to compensate.  As my post in the thread you reference fully explains, that allows the power section to breath with more current to the tubes and while you don't really get the full flavor of power amp distortion kicking in until both masters are up pretty high you certainly get a different tone and feel from when the POD was full up and the DT low.  It just gets better as you turn it up!

I do beleive that about says it. Thumbs Up!


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I mostly play at home and my own music which is more of a bluesy Jazzy Rock mixture as I'm still learning how to play guitar so when I post a reply to try and help give ideas you know where I'm coming from. In a nutshell I'm always learning and having fun doing it. Rock-On!! Oh, and if I don't respond promptly I'm probably playing guitar or my computer locked up from multitasking 'cause I'm using Gear Box, HD500 Edit, Audacity and tab filled browsers all at the same time, Hahahaaaa. Surprisingly enough my 'puter handles the load more times than not.
 

DT50_and_DT9901.pngStrat_X3Pro.pngBerm.pngThe_Arsenal.png


#10 wolbai

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 06:40 AM

According to this thread: http://line6.com/sup...ume/#entry28015
Its not possible to get power amp distortion by lowering the input and cranking the dt master, which seems to me to be exactly whats claimed in this thread. Someone please ennlighten me.

 

As an additional comment to radatats explanations: I suggest that you test it on your own, if the equipment is available to you. Ears are at the end of the day always the best proof IMO.


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____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

THE RETROMANIAC

Gear: JTV 59, JTV 69, JTV 89F, Godin Progression, Godin Seagull, Gibson Les Paul Deluxe, POD/HD500, DT50/212, DT50/Head, Marshall JVMC212, RIVERA Rockcrusher, Radial JDX Reactor
website: http://www.soundclick.com/wolbai  Band: http://www.jump-backtorock.de/


#11 innovine

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 08:09 AM

I disagree. Ears are easily fooled, but a thorough understanding is more reliable.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong, just that I don't understand. I gan't crank my amp due to small children and grumpy neighbours.
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#12 innovine

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 08:13 AM

Before the upgrade we couldn't turn the DT master up at all because the POD master was fixed full up. Now we can turn the DT master up and turn the POD master down to compensate.


The channel volume does the same thing as the pod master when connected via the line6 link.. nothing new there..

the only thing raising the dt master would do is raise the noise floor, it seems to me, and no explanation suggests otherwise..
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#13 radatats

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 08:17 AM

http://line6.com/sup...volume/?p=27929

 

Whatever...


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#14 wolbai

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 08:38 AM

I disagree. Ears are easily fooled, but a thorough understanding is more reliable.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong, just that I don't understand. I gan't crank my amp due to small children and grumpy neighbours.

 

The beauty of forums is that we always can agree that we disagree :D


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____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

THE RETROMANIAC

Gear: JTV 59, JTV 69, JTV 89F, Godin Progression, Godin Seagull, Gibson Les Paul Deluxe, POD/HD500, DT50/212, DT50/Head, Marshall JVMC212, RIVERA Rockcrusher, Radial JDX Reactor
website: http://www.soundclick.com/wolbai  Band: http://www.jump-backtorock.de/


#15 grandinq

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 08:58 AM

Awesome feature!  I only wish I hadn't bought that Weber attenuator this past summer!


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#16 innovine

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:02 AM

http://line6.com/sup...volume/?p=27929

Whatever...


Can you expand on the difference here:

Channel Volume - controls amp block signal output within the preamp.

POD Master - controls preamp signal output to the power amp.

According to this thread, the difference clearly means better tone, and no need for attenuators, so I must have missed something drastic.
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#17 boyce89976

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:36 AM

Can you expand on the difference here:

Channel Volume - controls amp block signal output within the preamp.

POD Master - controls preamp signal output to the power amp.

According to this thread, the difference clearly means better tone, and no need for attenuators, so I must have missed something drastic.

 

This is how I understand it:

 

Channel volume is in the amp block and affects the amp block volume PRE-mixer.  

 

POD Master volume is at the very end of the signal chain in the POD and affects the POD output POST-mixer.  


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#18 radatats

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 10:57 AM

Sure, if I can...

 

Consider your signal as it passes through the POD from your guitar.  It comes in at a certain level and is modified at every FX or amp block it encounters.  Lets just consider the amp blocks for now.  Each amp model has different characteristics and just as in the real world, some models put out a hotter signal than others.  The Channel Volume is how we adjust the signal level as it leaves the amp block, before it hits other FX, the mixer, and what ever we have in the Post section.  While we can certainly use it to crank every amp block to its max, it is most useful as a tool to level the volume between the various amp models that we use.  Max out your quietest amp model and the lower the Channel Volume for other amps to match.

 

Once we do this we now have a somewhat consistent signal level leaving the mixer and being passed to the Post section for further processing.  The POD Master comes at the very end of the Post section and our signal chain.  This knob adjusts the final signal level being sent to the power section, either the tube power section of our DT or the power amp driving whatever speaker cab we are using.  In this case we are talking about the DT power section.  The POD master works in conjunction with the DT master to give us our final volume level.  It is the interaction between these two that determine whether we get true power section distortion or not.

 

The POD signal contains the audio data we wish to reproduce and the DT has the horsepower to drive the speakers.  The audio signal will merge with and ride on the power amp current.  We can either send a large audio signal to ride a small current (POD up, DT down), a small audio signal to ride a large DT current (POD down, DT up) or a large audio signal to ride a large current (POD up, DT up).  Sort of like a car with different engines.  With a small engine (DT down) we can jam on the gas pedal (POD up) and we may go fast but the engine is working hard and not too responsive.  With a big engine (DT up) and a light touch on the gas (POD down) we can still go fast and be more responsive without working too hard.  With a big engine (DT up) and jam on the gas (POD up) we can smoke the tires and roar down the track and the engine gets to do its thing.

 

Prior to the update the POD was up all the time as the Master knob had no effect.  All we could adjust was the DT master and for most of us it was way too loud to use on a regular basis or at home.  The update allows us to choose what kind of "engine" we want to use and how hard we want to step on the gas before our ears or our significant others complain.  For me personally, I prefer a big effing engine and I can work the gas myself.  It just opens up so many more options even though full out power amp distortion may only come with a Led foot...

 

I hope this helps...


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#19 innovine

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 11:15 AM

I appreciate the long reply, thanks. I'm with you 100% of the way until the final paragraph.

We have always had the channel volume. With nothing after the amp block and before leaving the pod, there is no difference between the channel volume and the master volume, so the ability to throttle back the pod has always been there, just the post effects which are hit harder or not now.

The analogy with the car is kinda getting there, but if we imagine a dog with his head out the window (the listener) and his tongue flapping in the wind (the power amp dist), is it correct to say that the amount of tongue flap is the same whether its a big engine working a little, travelling at 10mph, or a tiny engine working itself to death to also give 10mph?
Tongue flappage isn't magically added because the car -could- go faster, which is sort of what I'm hearing in this thread..
Ano, as I mentioned in the other thread, constant current is only in some classes, which hasn't been discussed..

I get the feeling I'll be getting my sine wave generator out soon.
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#20 boyce89976

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 11:33 AM

We have always had the channel volume. With nothing after the amp block and before leaving the pod, there is no difference between the channel volume and the master volume, so the ability to throttle back the pod has always been there, just the post effects which are hit harder or not now.

 

 

I think you just answered your own question... Channel volume is in the amp block, before the mixer and post-amp effects.  POD Master volume is post everything, including post-amp effects.  That's a big difference in functionality!  It might help to think of Channel volume as part of the pre-amp gain control and the Master volume as just that.      


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