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Sultans Of Swing

variax 700 hd500 single input approach

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#1 hurghanico

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:11 PM

https://soundcloud.c...ultans-of-swing

(the settings under the SoundCloud track)

 

hope you like it :)

 

still using the single input approach

a very simple rig

 

magic sound!


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#2 Akeron

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:19 PM

Great! What monitors and what DAW do you use to record?


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#3 hurghanico

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 02:35 PM

I use my AKG K 240 mk II headphones..

 

since Cubase started to give me some PC problems, lately I switched to Reaper DAW software, which I like but I'm still learning how to use it really well


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#4 Akeron

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:14 PM

I was asking because I use Reaper too, but for no apparent reason the recorded sounds are completely different from the "live" ones I hear with monitors. The degradation is incredible :o


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#5 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 03:43 PM

Excellent! I love it!  Very nice playing and great tone.


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#6 hurghanico

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 04:49 PM

I was asking because I use Reaper too, but for no apparent reason the recorded sounds are completely different from the "live" ones I hear with monitors. The degradation is incredible :o

 

it is only recently that I'm using Reaper, at the moment I'm using the last release v4.581 and I have not noticed anything strange ..
in this specific case, the sound I heard in the headphones is the same I heard in the recording ..

I like this software because it seems to have everything you need, and is very light in regarding to the use of PC resources
..


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#7 gckelloch

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 04:59 PM

Nice playing, and you pulled off "that lick" near the end. :D  I can see why you set the Amp Master at 70% -- wanted the preamp crunch without the amp sag and extra high end grit I guess?  I assumed he recorded that lead part with a Fender Twin?  It makes me wonder why Line 6 left off the bright switch with the Twin amp models, or does the presence knob take that function? 

 

Lately I've been experimenting more with the guitar tone knob.  Even setting it down to ~9 can fatten the upper-mids (what we think of as guitar highs) just right for your brighter tones.  That's judging with my standard 2.4 - 4H Strat type pickups, 250k pots, and a 180pF cable.  Smoothing the upper-mids would generally be more needed with low inductance pickups and mid to high capacitance guitar cables. Those factors largely determine where on the knob's range that fat bright sound will actually fall.  The tone knob cap value doesn't actually matter with knob settings above ~4, but the knob does have less overall range with higher capacitance guitar cables and/or higher inductance pickups.

 

Everything fine with Reaper v4.581 here, too.  Maybe ask for help on it at the Cockos forums and/or post a recording of your results and maybe we can tell you what's up right way.


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#8 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 05:05 PM

Excellent playing.


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#9 DeanDinosaur

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 05:08 PM

  It makes me wonder why Line 6 left off the bright switch with the Twin amp models, or does the presence knob take that function? 

 

I don't know why line 6 left that out, but I know in the real twin the more you crank the volume knob the bright switch has less effect and once it's fully cranked the bright switch has no effect on the sound.


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#10 hurghanico

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 05:44 PM

First of all, thank to all of you guys for the nice comments.. :)

 

... I can see why you set the Amp Master at 70% -- wanted the preamp crunch without the amp sag and extra high end grit I guess?  I assumed he recorded that lead part with a Fender Twin?  It makes me wonder why Line 6 left off the bright switch with the Twin amp models, or does the presence knob take that function?

 

@ gckelloch:

 

my fault, I wasn't enough clear in the descriptions, in the settings of this tone, with "amp vol at 70%" I meant to say the amp channel volume, and not the amp master volume, which I think is still on its default 100%..

 

from what I know Knopfler used several amps: several Fender models, and also Soldano..

for my patch I picked the Deluxe vibrato channel because it has a nice tone breakup and more middle frequencies than the twin, which seemed almost perfect for this track, as usual for me I carefully selected the mic, which is one of the first thing I do, it's a very essential part of every patch..

 

also as I said previously in some other posts, lately I'm using the single input approach, which (right or wrong, doesn't matter) very often is giving me great results rather easily, doing so seldom I feel the need to use EQ FXs or other tricks to get the sound I need, I find many amp and FX models to sound just more balanced and natural..

 

I don't know if the bright switch was on or off (most probably "off" I would say) in the modeled amps and I don't believe that the presence knob takes that function, but alternatively you could give a look at the models descriptions into the POD XT manual.. obviously I'm not sure, but I imagine that probably they did the same thing described over there with the same HD models..


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#11 gckelloch

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 06:01 PM

It sounds very good with the Deluxe amp channel, and it captures that "curly" essence of the sound.  Twin's can be too hard sounding if driven at all.  Keeping the treble down and mids up high can help with that.  6L6 tubes also tend to get flubby when driven hard, so turning the bass down a little can compensate.  You know the amp channel volume does not affect the amp sound at all?  It's just the output level.  The amp DEP Master affects the amp tone/response


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#12 hurghanico

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 06:19 PM

You know the amp channel volume does not affect the amp sound at all?  It's just the output level.  The amp DEP Master affects the amp tone/response

 

Of course yes! ;)


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#13 gckelloch

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 09:14 PM

Listening again, I have to say it is a really well-tailored tone.  It's bright without being harsh, with that lovely curly upper-mid sound I mentioned, and just a little grit without being crunchy.  You must have spent time fine tuning the combined pickup positions in your Strat?  I set them on my Parker Nitefly V1 (with all Wilde NF pickups) down to below 1/10th a screw turn.  You can actually tell the difference down to that level with a good pair of headphones and pickups that have some high end.  I adjust my higher inductance humbucking pickups maybe to ~1/6th a turn.  


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#14 hurghanico

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 03:13 AM

..You must have spent time fine tuning the combined pickup positions in your Strat?..

 

not really..

knowing that Knopfler used that bridge-middle pickups combi for this song, I started directly from there, which my VAX 700 already does nicely, with volume and tone full open..

 

I spent a little more time to choose the right amp model-mic combi, and I added a very subtle chorus barely audible before the amp..

 

just to make a test I tried also to use the dual input approach, compensating with a lower drive setting, but the sound lost some body and definition..

 

could be because similarly to reality, many vintage no-master-volume tube amps sound best (natural compression, frequency response makeup) when turned up quite a bit, and using the dual input approach isn't possible without getting too much distortion and other issues, that's probably why the single input approach works better for me..


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#15 arislaf

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 06:23 AM

Awesome!Really awesome!Bravo Nico!!!


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#16 Charlie_Watt

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 06:47 AM

Any chance you can put this tone up on Customtone?  I would love to try it.  It sounds very close to the original Dire Straits sound!  Again - great playing!


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#17 hurghanico

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 06:57 AM

Awesome!Really awesome!Bravo Nico!!!

 

Thanks friend Aris :)

I was expecting your nice comment sooner or later, because I know you like the Knopfler sound ..

 

you came to my mind when I recorded this song, I remember that you were looking for magnetic pickups with that kind of sound to be mounted on your Variax .. so it seems that you already have this sound available in your instrument.. just use it ;)

 

in a sense, this song is dedicated to you too

 

always with friendship

Nicola


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#18 arislaf

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 07:03 AM

Much appreciated and thank you for your warm comments :) I enjoy both playing and tone, you really pu great effort at every song you play. But this, one of my favorites, you really played it awesomely.

 

Keep up the great work and again,

thank you.


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#19 hurghanico

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 07:03 AM

Any chance you can put this tone up on Customtone?  I would love to try it.  It sounds very close to the original Dire Straits sound!  Again - great playing!

 

Thanks Charlie :)

 

I never posted patches on CustomTone, but if you click on each single SoundCloud track title you'll see all the settings just below the wave picture, the patches are very simple, so you could copy the settings quite quickly

 

anyway the key elements in order of importance were:

 

- guitar model

- single input approach

- amp-mic models combi and settings

- very subtle chorus

- ambience FXs


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#20 hurghanico

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 12:57 PM

I was asking because I use Reaper too, but for no apparent reason the recorded sounds are completely different from the "live" ones I hear with monitors. The degradation is incredible :o

 

generally, if the audio interface (is it your POD?) is always the same both for recording and listening, there should be absolutely no difference..

 

eg if in a different moment you listen again to your recorded tracks using instead the computer soundcard, being the DA converters much worse, the result will be proportional..

 

also, every time you open a new track in Reaper, is set as a single mono input by default, therefore if you are monitoring your POD in stereo, it'll be recorded in mono in Reaper, so it could be somewhat different, unless you manually select the stereo input in your track..


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