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Best Way To Connect/mic Hd500 Via L6 Link To L3t?


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#1 pugdealer

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 12:04 PM

Hey guys

 

I've been using my POD HD500 direct to FOH when playing live and the sound has been very inconsistent as the sound guys that are up front.

 

So I've been considering (and advised to) using the L3T micced up live as an amp so I'll probably get a closer sound up front compared to what I ear coming out of the l3t, which I what I use to tweak my patches.

 

I just updated the POD to 2.2 and it has good control over the L3t, though unfortunately it still lacks control over the speaker mode on the pod...it stores the setting, but I can't change the mode from the POD...anyway

 

I've always had the POD on studio/direct and am using full amp models. The questions are:

 

1 - Since I used the full amp models, should I use only PA/reference mode or is it better to go for electric guitar mode?

 

2 - How should the L3T be micced up? It seems to work completely different when in PA or Elec Guit.

 

3 - Could someone explain in detail the electric guitar mode, other than just "simulates 2x12 cabinet"?

 

Thanks


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#2 joecozzi

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:20 PM

Hello,

 

Too many  things influence the FOH house sound. What kind of speakers they are using, are they using any processing like compression, EQ or limiting? Keep in mind your sound is also being mixed to fit in with all the other musicians and that will change your sound completely.

 

1 - Use "Electric Guitar" mode as it was designed for use with multi-effects processors, PODs and pedal boards. However, and this is not meant to confuse you, you may like the high fidelity sound of "PA/Reference Mode." You are free to use it. Yes, the Flat Response, Full Range characteristic of the "PA Mode" might work better with certain models.

 

2 - A mic will not give you  an accurate representation of the sound you hear coming from the L3T. Your talking about capturing signal from a speaker with 3 different components that reproduce in different parts of the spectrum. That's why you mentioned it sounds different than using the modes. Aiming the mic would be a challenge, but it may be worth experimenting with if you have the time. First choose "electric guitar" mode (or PA mode, if you prefer) then experiment like you would in the studio. No rules, though I don't recommend it.

 

3 - "Electric Guitar" mode is designed to have a different voicing. It emulates the frequency response of a 2x12, meaning its EQ curve is similar to that of a guitar amp and not a regular FOH speaker. Guitar amps have a characteristic sound due to the materials and speaker cones that are used. It's why guitars and effects sound unusual when you plug them into regular PA speakers. To more closely achieve the sound of a guitar through an amp, choose "Electric guitar" mode. Additionaly, in this mode, you take advantage of Virtual Tilt-Back, which optimizes the speaker’s tuning to achieve an upward tilt to its main axis and aim the sound towards the performer.

 

Other questions for you: Are you fedding the FOH the direct outs of your POD or from the "Mix Out" of your L3T?

 

Don't forget that if you only have one L3T, the "Mix Out" puts out a Mono Sum (L+R) of the input from the L6 link.

If you're using the outputs of the POD HD500x, always use the balanced XLR outputs, when you can. If you are using the 1/4IN outputs make sure it's set to "LINE" and you're using direct boxes to feed the front of house.


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#3 dboomer

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:39 PM

 

 

1 - Since I used the full amp models, should I use only PA/reference mode or is it better to go for electric guitar mode?

 

2 - How should the L3T be micced up? It seems to work completely different when in PA or Elec Guit.

 

3 - Could someone explain in detail the electric guitar mode, other than just "simulates 2x12 cabinet"?

 

Thanks

 

The answer is  ... it all depends.  The opportunity of going FRFR is that you can create new sounds that cannot be made using guitar amplifiers.  Especially in the effects.   For that option to really be effective you should operate in PA/ref mode (it also depends on how you have your HD set ... speaker emulator or no).  Generally I would recommend running the HD with the Cab simulator ON  and the L2/3 in PA/ref mode.

 

It would take a couple of mics to mic up a L2/3 if it is operating in PA/ref mode as there is a low and a high component.  I would suggest NOT mixing the speaker but rather running form the mix out to the board.In Gtr amp mode you could probably just mic the woofer.  The GTR mode essentially shuts off the HF driver so only the woofer is operating and it applies a  Line 6 model to condition the sound.  If you are running in this mode you would generally turn the cabinet simulation OFF in your modeler.


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#4 pugdealer

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 12:54 AM

Thanks guys...

 

That's kinda what I was thinking to myself. I basically just hear the 10" driver when in Ele. guit. mode, so I figured I could just mic the driver and be fine.  My whole confusion had more to do with the cab simulation. I have them all on, and most patches just sounded instantly better when I changed from PA to Elec Guit, so I was a bit confused on whether the Elec guit mode was designed to be used with full amp and cab sim on or with the sim off.

 

I imagine miccing in PA mode would require at least 2 mics, 1 for the driver and 1 for the horn. But are the 2 10" drivers making the same exact sound? If not I would need a 3rd mic and that sounds WAY more complicated to mix and defeats the my purpose, I think...

 

I think I might spend some hours experimenting...Are you sure the cab sim should be off in elec guit mode? It sounded so good on! :P


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#5 joecozzi

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 06:40 AM

If the cab sim sounds good to you in "Electric Guitar" mode, then use it. Sometimes I prefer it on, too. :)


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#6 MarkPod300

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 01:32 AM

Hi, I use the hd500 going via XLR  directly into the mixer. I use the full amp models. I am quite happy with that. What I have had to learn though is that patches created with the headphones at home sound thin and inconsistent in the practice room at 85-90 db. Now I create them directly there and I use a db meter for consistency. This gives me quite good result.

 

But I still have a problem. The other day I played via L6Link into the L3t (I did that because on the next gig I want being connected as well to the mixer via XLR and use the L3t for me on stage as monitor). I put the L3t on PA/Ref as my patches are tweaked going direct. But each time after a while the L3t changes it to "electric guitar". I did not figure out if it is after a certain amount of time or when I engage a certain patch but it happens all the time. This is really weird. I thought the L6Link passes along the information of the pod. If I say to the pod I want direct and I use full amp, why is then the L3t changing to electric guitar which is simulating a 2x12 cab? Is that a bug? I mean cab or not cab should not be patch sensitiv since studio direct is a global setting isn't it. 

 

For the moment I found a work around: Not using the l6link but going via jack into the front 2 of the l3t. Now it remains on PA/Ref.

Can one of the product experts or Line6 rep elaborate on this. Thanks


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#7 silverhead

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 06:27 AM

The Stagesource speaker mode is saved/stored in the HD500 on a per preset basis. The default is Electric Guitar. That explains why every time you recall a preset the speaker mode becomes electric guitar.

The speaker mode setting is not directly visible or available for editing on the Hd500 or on HID500 Edit. In order to change the stored speaker mode you need to select a preset, manually change the speaker mode on the Speaker, and then SAVE the preset on the HD500. The bad news is you have to do this for every preset; the good news is you only have to do it once.
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#8 MarkPod300

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 07:13 AM

That is great news. Thank you, Silverhead!

I only have 8 presets, so I can save them quickly.

One question last question: is there any advantage using the l6link cable over just a standard jack going into the front of the amp if I leave it all the time on PA/Ref anyway? Thanks in advance


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#9 silverhead

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 08:23 AM

No real advantage other than being able to control the speaker mode, which in your case is actually a disadvantage.

Also In your case there may be another disadvantage. I find the output volume of the HD500 to be much louder through L6 Link than through the regular analog outputs. Since you intend to use the L3 as an onstage monitor you may have to do some tweaking to balance the XLR/mixer output volume and your monitor volume. You might find it more convenient to go XLR to the mixer and use the HD500 1/4" outputs to the L3 rear panel analog inputs for your monitor.
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#10 MarkPod300

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 09:12 AM

That exactly what I will do, thanks for the help.

 

Markus


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#11 silverhead

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Posted 27 December 2014 - 09:22 AM

You're welcome. Enjoy!


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#12 ColonelForbin

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 09:52 AM

Kinda think about PA-reference vs Electric guitar on the L3t, in the same way that you think about studio direct vs combo/poweramp on the HD500.

 

The difference in my head, is the sound of your amp mic'd up and ready for recording or live sound vs the sound of your amp itself.

 

Combo poweramp output mode on the HD500 is the default when you L6Link to a DT amp.

With the L3t, you have those other options, so you don't need to stick to only the combo poweramp mode.

 

However, in terms of mic'ing your gear, yes you can - but make sure the output modes on the HD500 and the speaker mode on the L3t are set up to not include mic simulation.

 

That is where the DT throws an extra bone in the mix, because it has a cabinet simulation on the XLR di out.

 

So you get the sound of just your amp from your amp, with the XLR send being packaged for recording or to the main mix.

 

In your case, I don't think the L3t does that.

 

One approach would be, dial in all your tones in studio/direct mode, L6Link to the L3t, let it be in PA/reference mode, and then use the XLR MIX out from the L3t to the house sound. What you will be hearing from the L3t is your amp/cab+mic tone, and that should work well for stage monitors and main mix.

 

Not much you can control over the sound guys, but seems to me that adding a mic to your rig isn't a bad idea, but mic'ing a signal which already has mic emulation might not be the best approach.

 

The other way more expensive option is to buy a DT amp, run the HD500 in link to the DT25, then send the XLR from the DT into the L3t, and then send the XLR mix out from the L3t to the main mix.

 

In that scenario, you could also have the sound guys put a mic on your DT amp, since it's in combo/poweramp mode, and is essentially the digital preamp from the HD500 paired with the Bogner poweramp in the DT. The XLR out from the DT is mic level not line level, for what it's worth.


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#13 dlettau

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 02:00 PM

I'm not sure if anyone has experience using a Fractal Audio Axe FX with the L3t?


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