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Md20 With Passive Speakers?


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#1 steadfast11

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 07:17 AM

Hello all,

 

I am a worship band leader at a mid sized church (250 people per service).

 

I have found a need to take control of the sound from the stage as the volunteer soundmen want to monkey with the sound during live worship "just because."  We do not have competent sound enginners and I do not have the knowledge to bring someone up to speed.

 

I have used the Bose L1 Classic system as an experiment and found the sound to be a bit "thin."

 

Next--we have a limited budget (or, leadership that does not want to dump what they have).

 

S0, we have some decent quality passive FOH and monitor speakers.

 

Can I use the MD20 and run it through the powered Yamaha soundboard to get sound in the passive speakers?

 

I can get the money for the MD20--but, I have been shot down on the powered speakers.

 

 


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#2 silverhead

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 07:25 AM

I can't see why not. Just connect the Main outs of the M20d to a stereo input pair with neutral settings (no EQ/FX ) on the Yamaha soundboard. If the soundboard currently works with your passive speakers it should continue to do so, regardless of its audio input source.


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Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.
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#3 scotterp

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 07:27 AM

Before I got my L3t's (only used for one gig so far) we ran passive speakers for a dozen or more shows. Just ran the main outs to a power amp, then out to the speakers - no problem. Now using that power amp to run monitors until I can afford to get some L2m's for that.


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#4 steadfast11

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 07:39 AM

Quick responses!  Thanks.

 

For the monitors the church has an unused peavey powered mixer that I just checked out--it works.

 

I did not think it would be a problem.  But--I didn't know if there could be something odd about the Md20's ability to sense inputs that could prevent it from working.

 

If I spring for the MD20 and fail---I will have some 'splaining to do.  :)


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#5 scotterp

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 07:48 AM

I think you (and the others) will be very satisfied with the M20d. It's an awesome tool, made especially for us less than competent sound engineers!


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#6 steadfast11

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 08:00 AM

I think you (and the others) will be very satisfied with the M20d. It's an awesome tool, made especially for us less than competent sound engineers!

 

 

That would be me for sure!

 

We had unbelievable man made disasters--until I banned everyone from the sound booth during live worship!

 

Of course--having no one there is a disaster waiting to happen.  So--I am eagerly and earnestly working for a quick solution.

 

I already run the videos, click tracks and powerpoints from the platform.  Why not the sound. 

 

I am acutally a sax player---but, I have become a foot switch king for this gig.  I make the electric guitartist jealous. 

 

I used to be jealous of all his gear.  Now the tables are turned. 

 

If I have the soundboard on the platform it will be mayhem.  :lol:


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#7 Digital-sound

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 08:19 AM

I can't see why not. Just connect the Main outs of the M20d to a stereo input pair with neutral settings (no EQ/FX ) on the Yamaha soundboard. If the soundboard currently works with your passive speakers it should continue to do so, regardless of its audio input source.


I agree. Just make sure all eq is level (no boost or cut) and the effects are off...if the Yamaha has any. And make sure the levels of the 2 channels on the Yamaha that you feed the m20d to, are equal of course. It should work fine as an amplifier.
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#8 steadfast11

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 08:29 AM

I agree. Just make sure all eq is level (no boost or cut) and the effects are off...if the Yamaha has any. And make sure the levels of the 2 channels on the Yamaha that you feed the m20d to, are equal of course. It should work fine as an amplifier.

 

 

Yes--it has effects and also has a separate EQ apart from the board that would need to be set to level.

 

I have on stage an XLR junction box that I would tap the Md20 into--which in turn runs through the ceiling to the Yamaha mixer in the rear of the sanctuary.

 

The Yamaha has a return for the on stage monitors but it can only send one signal--so all  my monitors have the same mix.  This has been a chronic problem on stage for the singers and musicians.

 

I figure I can take the Peavey  mixer/amp and run the 4 monitor channels to the 4 monitors on the platform via the Peavey so that we can get the much needed "different" mixes in the on-stage monitors.


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#9 scotterp

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 09:06 AM

If you can convince the leadership to trade those mixers for a couple of power amps, it would certainly simplify things. :)


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#10 steadfast11

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 09:18 AM

If you can convince the leadership to trade those mixers for a couple of power amps, it would certainly simplify things. :)

Good thinking.

 

I will give that a try.  Pretty obvious---I glossed right over it!


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#11 RonMarton

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 02:49 PM

If you can tell us exactly which of Hartley Peavey's powered mixers you're going to have onstage...

 

(Accurate model number, please.)

 

...we may be able to help you towards some simplification.


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#12 steadfast11

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 06:22 AM

If you can tell us exactly which of Hartley Peavey's powered mixers you're going to have onstage...

 

(Accurate model number, please.)

 

...we may be able to help you towards some simplification.

I will get that info Wednesday Night and give it to you!

 

Thanks


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#13 steadfast11

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 10:30 AM

This is what I have found that is currently not in use:  It is a Peavey XR 684.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

I suspect it may not even do to power the 4 monitors.


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#14 dboomer

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 11:51 AM

I know it very well (wink,wink).  It has 2 onboard amplifiers so you can only run 2 monitor mixer to it.

 

So simply take the A & B monitor outs on the mixer and run them into "power amp in  L&R" on the bottom right of the face of the Peavey.  A little further up there is a "mode" button.  Push it so you are in L/R mode. On the back you can plug in 2 speakers (8 ohms ea) into PA L and to PA R.  The graphic EQ's will still be in the circuit so if you make any changes there they will affect your sound.  I would recommend setting them "flat" and doing the changes in the mixer as you will be able to save those with your scenes/setups.



#15 RonMarton

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 12:48 PM

...It is a Peavey XR 684....

 

...I suspect it may not even do to power the 4 monitors...

 

...You're dead right, steadfast11...

 

...But as Don says, it SHOULD work very well for local control of two separate feeds, with them being two sets of "speaker to speaker link daisy chained" (parallel connected, each being 8Ω or higher) monitors per feed, spread across your four different sections. 

 

You'd be surprised how much happier that doubling of facilities will make folks...

 

...and also at how much more time and effort it would take to stay on top of four different balances. 

 

Now, a threefold "here's how" for the outputs of your M20d:

  1. Its Main Out XLs simply plug via that existing stage box to your Audio Control Room. ...If at all possible, find the "other end" XL males in that control room, remove them from their existing connections to Yamaha desk inputs so as to create a "desk by-pass" along the lines of the one I'm about to describe for the Peavey.
  2. If not, follow Digital-sound's advice to "...Just make sure all eq is level (no boost or cut) and the effects are off...if the Yamaha has any. And make sure the levels of the 2 channels on the Yamaha that you feed the m20d to, are equal of course..."  while also ensuring that any input pads it may have are switched in and that its input trim controls are set such that their "Peak" LEDs only flash occasionally in response to the very loudest of sounds.
  3. The XL males from "Monitor A" and "Monitor B" will need XL female to guitar-jack plug adapters so as to connect into the "Power Amp In" jack sockets at the bottom right of your Peavey XR 684F.

Those connections actually "break" the ones that the Peavey's built in amplifiers normally have from all of its front-panel controls, so NONE of those will have any effect whatsoever on what's being fed from your M20d to your speakers via those amplifiers.

 

(Plugging a pair of jack cords from the immediately adjacent "Line Output" sockets into those "Power Amp In" ones is pretty much the same as having nothing plugged into either, ...as the XR 684F's further right "In" jacks have a switching contact mechanism to break that "normal" connection.)

 

Most reputable brands of powered mixer, (such as Yamaha and Mackie) offer the same facility, so you'll readily appreciate why I'm encouraging you to adopt a similar approach for preventing "finger trouble" in your Control Room.

 

In an ideal world, of course, you'd have a complete Line 6 Linked DreamStage rig of L2 speakers for each of your four monitor sends and a full set of L3 speakers FOH...

 

...HOWEVER... 

 

...When funds permit, I'd heartily recommend that you check out this economical little beauty...

 

 http://www.sweetwate.../detail/SRM150/ 

 

...that would complement what you already own by providing individual stand-mounted monitoring close to the more "difficult" of your onstage performers.


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#16 steadfast11

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 07:08 AM

Great advice!  Thank you all.

 

I go before the church board on Jan 26 and will be asking for a budget and a one time capital expense for sound.  I am going for the whole enchilada--fully expecting to at least hit the mark for the M20d mixer funds.

 

 

They may tell me to go do a fund raiser--which is difficult as I already expend an incredible amount time on this "part time" job. (there were only vocalists singing with CDs when I started--now full time band)

 

Well--I will chime in as I move forward.

 

Thanks again!


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#17 SiWatts69

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 03:22 PM

If I can raise a point back to your powered Yamaha mixer...

 

Most of the Yamaha powered models have two TRS (1/4" balanced jack) inputs labelled "P.AMP IN" A and B (there being two amplifiers in all the powered Yamaha desks I've come across). These are direct insert points to the power amps in the desk and, when a TRS jack is inserted the power amps become isolated from the main bus signals.

 

So, take the main L+R outs from your M20d via XLR-F to 1/4" TRS BALANCED and insert L into P.AMP IN A and R into P.AMP IN B. Set the Yamaha desk to "Stereo L+R" and you'll have the sound from your M20d amplified CLEAN at the speaker outputs of the Yamaha desk. No need to zero anything. NONE of the controls on the Yamaha desk would be active AND no need to send the M20d signals through the processing buses via a stereo input pair, for which you'd need to ensure that everything was set to 0db / flat etc.

 

In previous posts I've mentioned our old skool rig and it included a Yamaha EMX-5000-20. We would connect on off-board dual 31 band EQ and insert the post eq line level back into the Yamaha via the P.AMP IN jacks.


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#18 steadfast11

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 06:41 AM

If I can raise a point back to your powered Yamaha mixer...

 

Most of the Yamaha powered models have two TRS (1/4" balanced jack) inputs labelled "P.AMP IN" A and B (there being two amplifiers in all the powered Yamaha desks I've come across). These are direct insert points to the power amps in the desk and, when a TRS jack is inserted the power amps become isolated from the main bus signals.

 

So, take the main L+R outs from your M20d via XLR-F to 1/4" TRS BALANCED and insert L into P.AMP IN A and R into P.AMP IN B. Set the Yamaha desk to "Stereo L+R" and you'll have the sound from your M20d amplified CLEAN at the speaker outputs of the Yamaha desk. No need to zero anything. NONE of the controls on the Yamaha desk would be active AND no need to send the M20d signals through the processing buses via a stereo input pair, for which you'd need to ensure that everything was set to 0db / flat etc.

 

In previous posts I've mentioned our old skool rig and it included a Yamaha EMX-5000-20. We would connect on off-board dual 31 band EQ and insert the post eq line level back into the Yamaha via the P.AMP IN jacks.

 

 

Yes--it does have P AMP IN A and B on the Yamaha sound desk.  Thanks!


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